Lightweight single-wall tent for Philmont?

[SteveJ]

Hi, all. A dedicated hammocker, I find myself in the position of having to plan to "go to ground!" Scott and I are planning to do a Philmont trek in 2010, and are beginning to think about gear (they don't allow hammocks). My understanding of the Philmont rules is that they require complete coverage above the ground (for example, couldn't use a 3-sided tarptent, but one crew that posted a report at backpackinglight.com used BD betalites a few years ago, which provide full coverage), but don't necessarily need a complete tent.

Recommendations? What's the latest / greatest lightweight shelter for 2 / 3 these days?

Steve

[hammock engineer]

Got to love the BSA rules. Luckily I went years back before light weight or hammocking was in the picture for me.

There is some talk on hammock forums about hammocks and Philmont. Not sure of what came of it.

One of these days I am planning on getting a tarp tent for the ground use. They have some nice models that with a pad can come in lighter than my hammock setup.

[Footslogger]

Been to Philmont 3 times as an adult leader ('95, '97, '99). Wish I knew then what I know now. I'd suggest you look at one of the Six Moon Design or Tarptent models. Personally ...I would carry my Six Moon Design Wild Oasis. They load you down with so much food that you need to cut weight wherever you can. The Wild Oasis is around 11 ounces and is plenty big for me and my pack. I am 5"10".

'Slogger

[dbjaime3]

We are going to Philmont in late August. This will be my first trip. I have purchased a Traptent Contrail for this trip. It weights 24 oz. I have not even set it up once, so I can not give you any input on the tent. The review on it from this forum and others rate it a good.

I will be going on a small backpack trip in a couple weeks and it will be my first try with it.

[Dances with Mice]

Hi, all. A dedicated hammocker, I find myself in the position of having to plan to "go to ground!" Scott and I are planning to do a Philmont trek in 2010, and are beginning to think about gear (they don't allow hammocks). My understanding of the Philmont rules is that they require complete coverage above the ground (for example, couldn't use a 3-sided tarptent, but one crew that posted a report at backpackinglight.com used BD betalites a few years ago, which provide full coverage), but don't necessarily need a complete tent.

Recommendations? What's the latest / greatest lightweight shelter for 2 / 3 these days?

I used a BD Megalite for me & son. Luxurious amount of room, minimal weight. Big enough for evening card games.

[SteveJ]

Been to Philmont 3 times as an adult leader ('95, '97, '99). Wish I knew then what I know now. I'd suggest you look at one of the Six Moon Design or Tarptent models. Personally ...I would carry my Six Moon Design Wild Oasis. They load you down with so much food that you need to cut weight wherever you can. The Wild Oasis is around 11 ounces and is plenty big for me and my pack. I am 5"10".

'Slogger

Thanks, 'Slogger - I thought that Philmont requires full walls on all sides, which aren't available in the tarptent models, right (one side with beak / netting)? Am I wrong about what they want?

[Foyt20]

Check out the Tarptent Rainbow or double rainbow. They both have full walls on all sides. If you need any other help feel free to ask, I have been 3 times once as a scout, once as a crew leader, and once as an adult leader, so I have a pretty 360 degree view.

[SteveJ]

I used a BD Megalite for me & son. Luxurious amount of room, minimal weight. Big enough for evening card games.

Thanks, Dances with Mice. I have a betamid, and a megalite is on my list of possibilities. Did you also take the MegaBug? Did not having an enclosed space cause any problems (bugs, mice, etc.)? If not the MegaBug, what did you use for flooring?

megalite + megabug = 4 lbs, 15 oz - ouch!

[SteveJ]

Check out the Tarptent Rainbow or double rainbow. They both have full walls on all sides. If you need any other help feel free to ask, I have been 3 times once as a scout, once as a crew leader, and once as an adult leader, so I have a pretty 360 degree view.

Did you take the tarptents to Philmont? That would be great, if they are allowed!

[Franco]

There is a topic at Backpackinglight called Philmont. These comments are from one thread entitled "lightweight at Philmont"
No subscription required for this one.

Phil B
Our shelters were all Tarptents. Our crew used 1 Rainshadow 2 (slept 3), 2 Squall 2 (sleeping 2 and 1), a Squall (slept 2), and my solo shelter, a floorless Virga. The Tarptents worked fine through fair weather as well as wind, rain, and hail. My only refinement on the Virga would be more headroom but 18 ounces is hard to beat. Our other crew also used entirely Tarptents with no problems. We did not carry ground cloths for the floored tents.
Scott B
Lighter tents: 2 G Gear The One, 1 Tarptent Contrail, 1 Tarptent Dbl. Rainbow
Albert K
Contrail Tarptent - We were hit with a heck of a storm at Crater Lake. Hail, flash flood/river through the campsite, you name it. I didn't expect any of the tents to hold up to it. The Tarptent was fine, I staked it with 7 stakes. This thing is light and large. I brought a sep. pack towel to wipe down condensation - it was never needed.
Franco

[sloopjonboswell]

philmont in the summer is a breeze, be prepared for six mile days and amazingly staffed outposts. carry a rainfly, ground tarp, and cheese grits to impress the young sprouts.

[sloopjonboswell]

oops, as much as i love bsa, who's gonna tell you that you have to go home b/c you dont have enough walls on your tent. hell, you all paid the money to be out there. have fun, cut weight like a pro.

[SteveJ]

oops, as much as i love bsa, who's gonna tell you that you have to go home b/c you dont have enough walls on your tent. hell, you all paid the money to be out there. have fun, cut weight like a pro.

chuckle...actually, I've heard they do have pretty strict gear / fitness standards. I'm not concerned about them sending me home because I don't have enough walls - but am concerned about them telling me I have to carry their heavy tents! I have heard of several adults being sent home because of weight - especially for cavalcades (strict 200# wt limit) - they don't want a lard ass on their horses!

great idea on the cheese grits - will make it in my pack!

[lbbrown]

My son and I did Philmont in July 07. I used a Double Rainbow, he used an REI half dome. Both worked great(especially the Rainbow!) The camp wants floored and walled tents to keep out the crawling critters. Be prepared for quickly changing weather such as thunder storms with lightning rain and hail. I had a 10x12 OES tarp (14 oz.) that saved our butts one day while climbing Mt. Phillips. Our crew of 10 huddled under the tarp during a violent hailstorm. Quite an experience. The boys sang Christmas caroles and had a snowball fight in July. Wouldn't have missed it for the world! I was over 200 lbs. and still rode the horses.

[Dances with Mice]

Thanks, Dances with Mice. I have a betamid, and a megalite is on my list of possibilities. Did you also take the MegaBug? Did not having an enclosed space cause any problems (bugs, mice, etc.)? If not the MegaBug, what did you use for flooring?

megalite + megabug = 4 lbs, 15 oz - ouch!

Never used the Bug. Don't have one. I did sew a strip of bug netting around the bottom of the tent, tho. You can see it here but it's mostly tucked inside the tent. Bugs really aren't a problem in the -mid for some reason they always migrate to the top peak of the tent. You've probably noticed that. The netting does help when it rains, flip it outside and water runs off the tent and doesn't splash back in. That was an unexpected benefit. The netting came from a cot-sized mosquito net that I cut into 12" strips and hand sewed to the bottom seam.

We used groundcloths to cover the floor and over the years have used plastic sheeting, Tyvek, an orange emergency tube tent split in half, a Neat Sheet with the weights removed (that's my current one and my favorite so far), and the re-useable emergency blanket, the multi-layer kind with grommets (also a favorite).

[Ender]

Recommendations? What's the latest / greatest lightweight shelter for 2 / 3 these days?

Steve

Probably the lightest tents out there right now would be either the Gossamer Gear "The One", or the Gossamer Gear "Squall Classic". The One is lighter, but the Squall Classic is roomier for not much more weight.

[mustangpwr98]

Whwn I went to philmont they didnt allow hammocks because they didnt want rope marks on treeds from 20,000 people.
Philmont has some strict and in some cases outdated/stupid rules. But the gear they issue has to last 20,000 kids throwing it around,thats why alot of it is heavy and rugged versus the lightweight stuff.
It has not always been this way... my scoutmaster that went there tiwce in the lat 70's said they just took the group dining fly and slept under that.

[riceNbeans]

I have been to Philmont as a camper, on Rayado, was a Philmont Ranger, worked in the backcountry (Pueblano, 1980) and, finally, oversaw all of the Philmont Buses running to and fro for an entire summer. I say this not to toot my own horm but to let you know I know of what I speak.

Reasons for no hammocks:

*Can you imagine what 20,000 campers each and ever summer would do to the tree s in the establisged campsites with hammocks? That's 200,000 cmper nights each and every year!

*Bears know where the camp sites are. Some get hit almost evey night. Can you say "bear pinata"?

Reason for floored tents: Think mice in shelters are bad? Try mini-bears (chipmunks) at night.....

Yes, the BSA has some outdated rules and regulations. Some are just plain stupid... Yet, the height weight limits are there for a reason that some may not suspect. While Philmont is hardly "wilderness", some parts are pretty far from a road to which a Suburban can meet an injured party. Every year, Rangers have to "stoke out" somebody for hours over many miles to meet a Suburban. In 1978, we have to extract a person from the Crags on Rayado Creek. Now THAT was work!

[Footslogger]

Thanks, 'Slogger - I thought that Philmont requires full walls on all sides, which aren't available in the tarptent models, right (one side with beak / netting)? Am I wrong about what they want?

============================

Been a while so they might have changed the regs. Either way ...something like the Six Moon Designs Wild Oasis would work. It's got a noseeum mesh skirt at the very bottom of the tent but it can be pitched so that just about all the mesh fits up inside the tent and under your ground cloth.

'Slogger

[hammock engineer]

I have been to Philmont as a camper, on Rayado, was a Philmont Ranger, worked in the backcountry (Pueblano, 1980) and, finally, oversaw all of the Philmont Buses running to and fro for an entire summer. I say this not to toot my own horm but to let you know I know of what I speak.

Reasons for no hammocks:

*Can you imagine what 20,000 campers each and ever summer would do to the tree s in the establisged campsites with hammocks? That's 200,000 cmper nights each and every year!

*Bears know where the camp sites are. Some get hit almost evey night. Can you say "bear pinata"?

Reason for floored tents: Think mice in shelters are bad? Try mini-bears (chipmunks) at night.....

Yes, the BSA has some outdated rules and regulations. Some are just plain stupid... Yet, the height weight limits are there for a reason that some may not suspect. While Philmont is hardly "wilderness", some parts are pretty far from a road to which a Suburban can meet an injured party. Every year, Rangers have to "stoke out" somebody for hours over many miles to meet a Suburban. In 1978, we have to extract a person from the Crags on Rayado Creek. Now THAT was work!

I can see that on the hammock use. A lot of people hang them wrong. Even my webbing wrapped a couple times around a tree can leave a mark on a soft bark tree. Not a rule I can argue with considering the number of people and skill level of a lot of scouts, myself included at that age.

I do disagree on the bear pinata. I haven't heard of any confirmed reports of people being bothered in a hammock. Think it is the same as a tent on this one. Both which are safer than cowboying.