Is joining the Appalachian Mountain Club a good idea?
Is joining the Appalachian Mountain Club a good idea? does anyone here belong. does the membership fee go to the trail or to administrators?
any info on the club is appreciated.
Beats me where the money goes, I was in the NY-NJ chapter and it was fun. Tons of social hikes during the summer, ranging from a walk in the park to a death march. They had multiple outings each weekend all over tarnation and 8+ people going in each group. It turned out to be a decent way to meet women too. They had other things to do besides hike, I think I recall kayak trips around Manhattan Island, city walks, etc. Well, I thought it was fun.
How many more of our soldiers must die in Iraq?
Well I joined 35 years or so ago. I was writing about hiking the Maine mountains and a member of the Maine Chapter showed up one day. He didn't criticize my stories. He just said they would be more accurate and interesting if I would read the AMC Guide Book and join the chapter. Which I did.Originally Posted by cabalot
A few years later the club offered me a free honorary membership (I think it's called a "Corresponding" or something.) They thought a silly story I had written, claiming Maine had lost 400,000 acres of land that it had reserved when it sold the rest of the state's public domain warranted that honor.
Years later I lost my card and asked for a replacement. "Oh." I was told. "Almost no one around here remembers those, but I guess you are one." My "new" card is now two decades old. And I guard it carefully. I was told it's the only one the club had left.
Well, I've been a member ever since. And late years I've been producing the Maine Chapter's newsletter, since no one else wanted to.
I find AMC is basically a good organization. If I ever lose my free card, I might even pay to join.
As to your specific question, dues pays the people who run the organization and the costs of maintaining the trails in the White Mountains. AMC is the primary maintainer or trails in the 800,000 acre White Mountain National Forest. It has a professional trail crew and organizes many hundreds of volunteers to help.
Weary
Weary
I belong. It is a very good orgaization that has a commited staff, an excellent record of leading groups, and has a full time scientist studying the issue of air pollution. They do a great job protecting the overused White Mountains National Forest. I would recommend membership to anyone who enjoys hiking, and the social aspects of a club.
'All my lies are always wishes" ~Jeff Tweedy~
Can't hurt. I ain't a member of the ATC or AMC. Join em.
Cabalot, If you are close enough to make some contribution to the work of the club then fine, If not, then it's just another card taking up space in your wallet.
thanks guys,
i live in NJ and plan to move to PA close to the trail.
i am interested in the social events of the club. is there much difference between the ATC and the AMC?
Enormous difference. ATC manages the trail and works with local clubs in maintaining the trail. It is not concerned with social events, aside from the comaraderie that comes from shared work goals.
AMC is basically a social club with science and trail maintenance side interests. It runs hikes, workshops, campsites, and is concerned with maintaining a clean enviroment that will make these activites attractive to members and customers. This is not an either, or situation. Both are useful and both need support if you can afford it.
Weary
Joining the ATC
I used to be a member then stopped. Too many money grubbing lawyers ripping off hikers. Send money now, sign over your home, the ATC needs to money to buy new rocks.
Actually, I give the AMC decidedly mixed reviews as to their care and protection of the White Mountains.
This is an incredibly over-used and fragile location, yet the Club spends thousands of dollars a year on glossy brochures and ads that encourage ignorant and ill-equipped folks to enter these areas; I personally don't think it's wise stewardship to entice people to visit a threatened, fragile area, unless they're properly equpipped and know what the hell they're doing.
It could also be added that the primary purpose of these ads is to encourgae city folks to stay in some of the AMC's high-end lodging, such as the "Hut" cabins found all thru the Whites, and the brand-new multi-million dollar facility recently opened at Crawford Notch. These facilities, by their very nature and cost, are elitist, classist, and exclusive, as the vast majority of folks who visit the Whites cannot afford to stay at them. One can quite easily question whether exclusive and exclusionary lodging places like these, which are essentially private clubs, are appropriate or have any place on public land.
It can further be stated that the cCub's insistence on maintaining and expanding the operation of these high-end facilities comes at the expense of folks on a limited budget; for several years the club has been in the process of expanding their high-end lodging options while doing very little in the way of expanding or improving such options as shelters, care-taker tentsites, etc.
Lastly, the club insists on operating out of a multi-million dollar turn of the century townhouse on Boston's Beacon Hill. The cost of maintaining this unnecessary facility is enormous, never mind the millions of dollars that could be immediately realized by selling the structure and moving to less opulent offices in a more appropriate location, such as New Hampshire. And lastly, they have a bloated, over-paid office staff; the salary of their executive Director approaches that of the U.S. President.
In short, while the AMC does a lot right, it does a lot wrong. I personally can't justify sending them money so they can tear down decades-old hostels and replace them with luxury hotels, nor do I want my dues to pay for brie and chablis parties at their Boston headquarters (and yeah, I used to be a member of the Boston chapter so I know what I'm talking about here), nor do I want to help maintain a system of high-cost faux European "hiker huts" that exists solely to serve as money-makers for the organization, and to provide their wealthy members a high-country hideaway that is effectively off-limits to 95% of the folks who enter the White Mountains.
To sum up: I'm no longer a member of the AMC and can't in conscience support them. I prefer to give extra time and money to the Appalachian Trail Conference, as I know the money will be spent wisely. Or failing the ATC, I'd sooner join or support such organizations as the Green Mountain Club or the Maine Appalachian Trail Club, two small organizations that do remarkable work with very limited financial and human resources. Or better yet, if you're interested in protecting the backcountry of Northern New England, I'd join them all.
The AMC will have me back as a member when they stop building backcountry palaces, stop catering primarily to the wealthy, stop pretending that the White Mountains exist essentially to serve as a playground for their members. Or to put it another way: I'll re-join the AMC when they return to paying attention to their 130 year old mission statement, which speaks of providing wise stewardship for the forests, mountains, and rivers of Northern New England. When the AMC returns to its roots, I'll return to them. Otherwise, I think that there are other organizations more worthy of our time, money, and support.
Pirate is a great guy with a wonderful sense of humor. He told me once about the great joke he would play on life guards in Florida. Having served in the Navy as an underwater specialist, he could hold his breath for minutes at a time.
His trick was to lay on the bottom of public swimming pools and when the lifeguards came down to rescue him, he would grab them and hold them under the water. A great funster that Pirate. But don't believe all he says.
Weary
I belong to the AMC and stay a member mostly because of the incredible amount of trail work that they do. Over 1300 miles of trails in the Whites alone. Yea, volunteers do most of the work, but the AMC organizes it all, has trail maintenance classes, and a whole network of folk who work together to make trail work happen. I maintain the South Baldface trail in NH and have done it for four years now, and have always had good experiences with them.
The reason I don't like them is kinda what Jack said, too much $ spent on what most hikers consider foolish things, although they did listen to us and open the hostel at Crawfords again.
Greg P.
AMC= Appalachian Money Club
Jack, you make some very good points. I agree with much of what you have to say. I just wanted to point out a couple of things I disagree with. When you say they have a "bloated over paid staff" I think you oversimplify the issue. I know many of the staff members at AMC and they are highly skilled and imminently qualified to work on recreation/conservation issues. I think they do a great job. They also have many many extraordinary volunteers. Jeff Hogan is one who comes to mind.
If you are going to attract highly skilled folks in Boston, MA, you have to pay a competitive wage. If you move outside of Boston (which you suggest) it becomes more difficult to attract quality talent. Not impossible by any means, but more difficult. Regarding the salary issue for the ED, the AMC has a membership exceeding 90,000, and they manage dozens of facilities throughout the northeast. Any organization that wants to survive in this economy and competitive environment (yes - the non-profit world is extremely competitive) needs to have a top quality leader. Compare Andy Falender's salary to other ED's & CEOs who manage an organization of 90,000+.
Concerning the allegation that the AMC has torn "down decades-old hostels and replace them with luxury hotels", if you are referring to the Highlands Center, they have not torn down the hostel. In fact, the hostel is up & running from my understanding. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Jeffrey Hunter
'All my lies are always wishes" ~Jeff Tweedy~
If the folks who work there truly believe what they write, finding talent willing to live outside of Boston should be a piece of cake. Especially since living closer to the source would improve the economic health of the region.
http://www.outdoors.org/about/index.cfm
"We promote the protection, enjoyment, and wise use of the mountains, rivers, and trails of the Appalachian region. We believe that the mountains and rivers have an intrinsic worth and also provide recreational opportunity, spiritual renewal, and ecological and economic health for the region. We encourage people to enjoy and appreciate the natural world because we believe that successful conservation depends on this experience. We fulfill our mission through the three interconnecting pillars of the AMC: conservation, education, and recreation.
REgardless of where they live competent people require a competitive salary or like the rest of us they will move on to other jobs. AMC was heading towards bankruptcy, when Andy Falender was hired. He has transformed the organization. His leadership has made AMC an active, vibrant, and financially sound organization.
I've worked with the club's middle leadership group for the past year, planning for the use of the AMC's 37,000 acres in Maine. I'm impressed with their ability and commitment.
I don't agree with everything AMC does. But on the whole they are a valuable resource for trails, the outdoors and conservation in the northeast.
Weary
I think the bigger question is, is the AMC failing to fulfill it's mission? I think the answer to that question is a resounding NO. We may disagree about their strategy for satisfying their mission. Yes, they do promote recreation in the White Mountains. Yes, they do appeal to a more affluent constituency than most hiking clubs. If the AMC can engage some of those inner city, well-to-do folks, and empower them to change some of their habits and become influential in their resepective communities, than that IMO is a good thing. When you stay at an AMC facility, you are practically bombarded with information about conservation issues. I am familiar with many of those issues. Someone from Boston or New York City might not be. You can't fault the AMC for reaching out to those folks. I can't anyway. I would like to see them do more outreach to kids however.
If a hiker is really concerned about the AMC, and whether or not they are doing good work, you can get active and help make a difference.
On balance, I think the AMC does a very good job.
'All my lies are always wishes" ~Jeff Tweedy~
Never said anything about not paying competitive salaries. Pay the same salary to a person in a more rural area than Boston. That salary becomes far more competive because the cost of living is much less. Housing costs are a wee bit different between Boston and any of many rural areas closer to the places the AMC seeks to protect. It shouldn't be at all difficult to retain individuals who are in tune with the quote I cited in my previous post.
"Gee, I can move away from the city, closer to the mountains and still be paid my Boston salary."
There certainly may be other reasons why the AMC facility is located in Boston. I am just taking exception to the suggestion that it is due to a need to attract qualified personnel. Other ravings and rantings need not apply.
My daughter lives in Boston and I can say that it is incredibly expensive per month for her to live there. She has been down there 10 years. She has changed apartments several times.
I too would wonder why the AMC sees Boston as a proper headquarters for their organization.
I want to hike in New Hampsire soon but I can't afford the hut rate$.
Staying in huts
No need to stay in huts in while hiking in NH. Cut my backpacking teeth in the Whites and did not stay in a hut once until my thru-hike when I did "a work for stay".
As mentioned in another thread, though free camping in the Whites does require some more planning than other places, it can be done. Look at the map, gather water at the pay (and crowded) sites around 5 or 6PM (or whenever you want to call it day) and hike on about .25 mile or more.
Wish the huts were more like the Carter hut: caretaker who minds the hut, but otherwise it is self-serve.
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