AMC in the 100-mile-wilderness

[weary]

AMC's ownership in the 100-mile-wilderness will be 66,000 acres by the end of this year, creating a solid block of protected land from Gulf Hagas to Baxter State Park. The ownership includes three sporting camps, miles of new trails, but so far no significant new construction -- despite the dire predictions on this site a few years ago.

Who knows what the future will bring? But for a summary of what has occurred so far, and what is planned for the future, open:

http://www.outdoors.org/conservation...i-overview.cfm

Weary

[Jack Tarlin]

I would say the reservations expressed here were more "concerned" than they were dire, Weary, and while it's nice to see what has happened so far in Maine, I'm still gonna wait and see on the rest of things. After all, who ever predicted the arrival of the Highland Center at Crawford Notch? The people who expressed concern about that particular project were proven absolutely right.

But thank you Weary, for sending this along.

[Cookerhiker]

Thanks for the link. Coincidentally I just received the latest November/December AMC Outdoors today with some info on all AMC facilities available in the winter. I'm thinking of planning a X-Country ski trip this winter.

[Lone Wolf]

AMC in the so-called "100 mile" is a good thing

[Symbol]

AMC in the so-called "100 mile" is a good thing

Unless they build the Highland House II

[Symbol]

Unless they build the Highland House II

er, I mean... Highland Center II

[Lone Wolf]

Highland Center I is totally appropriate for it's location

[Jack Tarlin]

If you really believe that last statement, Wolf (i.e. it isn't just meant to troll/stir things up), then please tell us:

Why do you think this building is appropriate, both in terms of its location, and also its cost?

[Symbol]

Highland Center I is totally appropriate for it's location

I liked what was there before the Highland Center was there.

[Symbol]

If you really believe that last statement, Wolf (i.e. it isn't just meant to troll/stir things up), then please tell us:

Why do you think this building is appropriate, both in terms of its location, and also its cost?

Not to keep stirring, either... but if it is appropriate then would it be just as appropriate if the place had a Four Seasons sign out front? Would it be okay to put one of those in Franconia Notch or Pinkham Notch?

[TJ aka Teej]

... so far no significant new construction -- despite the dire predictions on this site a few years ago.

And, more to the point, despite the Greenville and Bangor newspaper reports of the AMC's own meetings with locals a few years ago.
The concerns expressed by the people of Greenville and neighboring communities are probably some of the main reasons the AMC's original plans have been modified for now.

Who knows what the future will bring? But for a summary of what has occurred so far, and what is planned for the future, open:
(commercial link removed)

A press release from the PR/sales department of the AMC, as any old newspaperman should know, should always be taken for what it is and no more. Considering the AMC's track record, their public words alone are of little value for finding out what their future plans really are.
Happy Halloween, Weary.

[Hikerhead]

Highland Center I is totally appropriate for it's location

I agree. I've hiked to it, I've drove to it, I've rode a train to it. Now I wish they would build an airstrip. They've all been pleasant experiences.

[weary]

And, more to the point, despite the Greenville and Bangor newspaper reports of the AMC's own meetings with locals a few years ago.
The concerns expressed by the people of Greenville and neighboring communities are probably some of the main reasons the AMC's original plans have been modified for now.
.

As near as I can tell, there were no "original" plans when the "dire" predictions were posted. At least after the predictions were made, I attended dozens of meetings over many months as AMC thrashed out how best to manage the initial 37,000 acres, which was probably a thousand times more land than AMC had ever previously owned in one block.

I'm sure AMC explored with state agencies all the possible uses the land might be used for. I suspect these enquiries spurred the rumors about massive new construction being planned.

I like to think that strong protests by a number of Maine Chapter members tempered some of the possible plans. But economic realities probably were far more important.

Regardless, there will not be a Highland II in the 100-mile-wilderness. The Crawford Notch Highlands is on a major highway. The AMC Maine acreage is 200 miles from major population and tourist centers, and can only be reached by traveling over a dozen miles or more of dirt logging roads, most of which AMC does not own or control. Even if the abutting owners should agree, road reconstruction would still face major regulatory hurdles.

And no, the state is not going to improve the roads to help any nebulous AMC plans. Even if there were money available, which there isn't, it would require taking by eminent domain dozens of miles of private property, something that would provoke political outrage.

Again, economic realities argue against any major new construction. People visit the areas to hike and to fish. They are drawn to the three ancient sporting camps that AMC is rehabilitating by the primitive nature of the facilities. A Highlands Center type structure I suspect would be a financial disaster.

Weary

[Jeff]

We should be celebrating the fact that AMC has protected 66,000 acres from development.

[celt]

I would say the reservations expressed here were more "concerned" than they were dire, Weary, and while it's nice to see what has happened so far in Maine, I'm still gonna wait and see on the rest of things. After all, who ever predicted the arrival of the Highland Center at Crawford Notch? The people who expressed concern about that particular project were proven absolutely right.

But thank you Weary, for sending this along.

I wouldn't let the appearance of the Highland Center at Crawfords be the cause for any concern about any tendency for the AMC to slip some kind of inappropriate development onto its 100-mile wilderness holdings.

While the A.T. and long distance hiker communities may not have predicted the arrival of the Highland Center it was a long time coming. Since the AMC came into the property shortly after the Crawford House Hotel burned in 1977 there was the idea of a "Pinkham Notch West" on the property, although as the idea matured the facility was to become most unlike Pinkham.

Crawfords wasn't the only location considered. There once was an idea for an AMC front-country facility near the north end of Franconia Notch, outside the State Park.

I think the word 'Appropriate' is foremost in the AMC plans for its lands in Maine. They know the White Mountain style of back-country and front-country development isn't right for Maine. I would agree that its the A.T. community's responsibility to remain concerned, its a key part to keeping the AMC in touch with trail users.

[Jack Tarlin]

Just because something might have been "a long time coming" doesn't make it appropriate or right.

And how long a project may or may not have been on the drawing board is irrelevant, too.

I used to be a member of the AMC and happily gave them money and volunteer work every year.

When they decided to close a popular (and affordable) hiker hostel and replace it with a multi-million dollar hotel complex for their tonier members and friends, (and a place where I have literally seen people be snubbed because of their socio-economic status), well that's when I decided my time and money was better spent elsewhere.

And in feeling this way, I was not alone.

[celt]

I didn't express any opinion concerning how appropriate or right the Highland Center is.

Concerning the AMCs plans in Maine you said, "..I'm still gonna wait and see on the rest of things. After all, who ever predicted the arrival of the Highland Center at Crawford Notch?" I'm saying it was predictable and known by many for years so, "I wouldn't let the appearance of the Highland Center at Crawfords be the cause for any concern about any tendency for the AMC to slip some kind of inappropriate development onto its 100-mile wilderness holdings."

[Cookerhiker]

First of all I'm glad that the AMC has purchased this land because I believe it's the best prevention against wanton development. I can't improve on what Wolf said: it's good that they're involved. It's reassuring that 342,000 acres are now protected from condos & vacation homes.

Having said that, after perusing the supplement in the latest AMC Outdoors and consulting their website, I'm disappointed that the AMC winter facilities in the 100 Mile, like the White Mountain huts, are very expensive and worse, offer no alternates to those who'd rather not spend upwards of $100/night. For example unless I missed it, there are no self-catering options like Zealand.

The least expensive price I could discern was a (probably unheated) bunkhouse in one of the camps at $66. Otherwise, the rates are $99/members, $119/non-members unless one stays for a minimum of 3 nights in case the rate goes down $10, but this excludes Saturday night stays. And of course these rates are per person. So if my GF and I want to spend a few days X-Country skiing, we'll likely drop over $500.

So maybe one should expect to pay more in winter. It appears the rates include trail lunches and most of the facilities are heated (I think). On the other hand, Medawisla is accessible via road so resupplying is easier than White Mt. huts in summer. I don't mind paying top dollar some of the time; in fact, I hiked the Franconias this summer and stayed in the huts. But I still think there should be a low-cost option.

What bothers me is the AMC's literature depicting these facilities as akin to the sporting camps of old. For example, the supplement says "What to expect: Traditional Maine sporting camps..." AMC Outdoors says "we're modernizing [my emphasis] that tradition..and "that modernization which includes renaming AMC's 3 camps as wilderness lodges, is part of a vision of sustainable tourism..." That may all be true but what it doesn't say is that such "modernization" also includes a price structure puts the "lodges" out of reach for those lovers of the winter outdoors who don't make the big bucks.

In short, the AMC has done nothing in the Maine woods to ameliorate its image of catering mostly to a rich yuppified clientele. I wish I didn't feel that way because I believe they do a lot of good in other areas.

Don't they know there's another world out there beyond Joy St?

[Jack Tarlin]

We should probably simply agree to disagree on this one, Celt.

Regardless of whether or not their construction efforts were predictable, or known well in advance isn't the point.

The point is that the AMC has a track record of putting up inappropriate structures and facilities in inappropriate locations, and they have done this without necessarily getting input from their members, from locals, and from non-members who have an interest in the areas in question. They also have a track record about being disingenuous about the size and scope of their developments and projects, as well as how these facilities will operate (the originally planned Crawford Center, for example, was smaller, was less of a hotel facility, and a promise was made to local officials and business owners that they would not be serving alcohol).

Because of this track record regarding their new facilities, and because of doubts about the intentions and honesty of the Club's plans, it is entirely natural that folks be concerned.......and cautious......about their intentions in new territory, i.e. Maine.

[celt]

Regardless of whether or not their construction efforts were predictable, or known well in advance isn't the point.

After reading your first post I thought your point was it was relevant.