General Great Smoky Mountain information and misinformation

[Vesna]

For non thru hikers:

http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisi...untry-regs.htm

Backpackers and hikers are subject to all Backcountry Rules and Regulations. Failure to abide by park regulations may subject you to a fine under Title 36, Code of Federal Regulations. Maximum fine for each violation is $5,000 and/or 6 months in jail.

Backcountry Rules and Regulations
1. You must possess a backcountry permit while camping in the backcountry.
2. Camping is permitted only at designated sites and shelters.
3. Use of reserved sites and shelters must be confirmed through the Backcountry Reservation Office.
4. You may stay up to three consecutive nights at a site. You may not stay two nights in a row at a shelter.
5. Maximum camping party size is eight persons.
6. Open fires are prohibited except at designated sites. Use only wood that is dead and on the ground. Use only established fire rings.
7. The use of tents at shelters is prohibited.
8. Food storage: When not being consumed or transported, all food and trash must be suspended at least 10 feet off the ground and four feet from the nearest limb or trunk, or shall be stored as otherwise designated.
9. Toilet use must be at least 100 feet from a campsite or water source and out of sight of the trail. Human feces must be buried in a six-inch-deep hole.
10. All trash must be carried out.
11. All plants, wildlife, and natural and historic features are protected by law. Do not carve, deface, or cut any trees or shrubs.
12. Polluting park waters is prohibited. Do not wash dishes or bathe with soap in a stream.
13. Pets, motorized vehicles, and bicycles are not permitted in the backcountry.

[kayak karl]

Please don't bring a tent thinking you can always set up outside the shelter.

carrying no tent or shelter is foolish. im to count on the people that don't answer their phone. TY, but i'd rather be prepared.

[Egads]

any backpacker worth their sweat will carry a shelter for emergency use, regardless of park regs.

[ChinMusic]

If you have reservations at the shelters, even if the shelter is full when you get there, you have a right to a spot. Please don't bring a tent thinking you can always set up outside the shelter. It is extra weight and it is against the rules of regs of the Park.

There are rules and then there are "rules".

I'm carrying a shelter even if I have a reservatioin.....PERIOD.

Picture the position the Park is putting the section hiker with a permit in. You've had a LONG day. You get to the shelter after dark. The shelter is full of comfortable soles all snug in their bags. There ain't no room.

Are you suppose to wake everyone up and ask for permits? PALLEEEEEZE

I would set up my tent, and if questioned by authority, make my case, and pay the stupid fine if they are jerks about it.

I'm NOT waking everyone up.

Stuff like this is why so many complain about the GSMNP. It doesn't have to be this way.

[Lyle]

Carry your own shelter, that is basic common backcountry sense.

Also, a ridge-runner has no authority, (granted they have contact with those who do) to hike someone out in the middle of the night, in fact that would be down right stupid, and an extremely high liability risk. One simple ankle twist and a good attorney would show them the stupidity of this policy, especially if the hiker did have a permit, but the shelter was full on their arrival.

Final point, not all shelters have yet been remodeled, Russel Field at least still has chain-link fencing. Just calls into question how much of an authority this person really is. Perhaps their knowledge is more in their own mind than fact.

[Rockhound]

So if you want to tent in GSMNP. get one of those permits at Fontana or Hot Springs that you fill out yourself and if questioned just say you are a thruhiker. Got it. I have to wonder, if they are so concerned about preserving the land and beauty up there, why are there no privies? Instead you have to take your chances in the minefields up there. They just took the time and money to refurbish all the shelters but still no privies. I think GSMNP could learn a thing or two from how they do things in the Whites. If need be start charging a few bucks a night at the shelters to help pay for it instead of having feces spread out all over the place. correct me if I'm wrong but this also attracts bears, no?

[kayak karl]

believe it or not this guys company has good yuppie reviews. http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractio...e.html#REVIEWS very original name

[Cookerhiker]

One thing I've been confused about re permits in the Smokies. I understand about the 50 mile rule defining thruhikers and how non-thruhikers must have reservations. What I don't understand is what happens (as probably often does in the Spring) when say 20 legitimate bonafide thruhikers show up at a shelter which sleeps 12 and may also include 3-4 non-thrus with reservations? Is the 13th person supposed to move on to the next shelter, even if it's 10 miles ahead and dark? And suppose the next shelter is also full?

I agree with all the other posters that hikers must carry tents/hammocks/tarps/ whatever as at least an emergency backup - it would be irresponsible not to do so.

[Rain Man]

Sorry to see a couple of the posts already. We're told to LIE about being thru-hikers, and we're also told if LEO enforce the laws, they are being "jerks."

Fortunately, most WBers have more character!

Don't act superior to the quite reasonable rules the GSMNP folks have in place, and to other hikers who obey the rules. Don't denigrate the GSMNP folks if they enforce them based on your convenience (or not).

Rather sad attitudes in my opinion.

Rain Man

.

[ChinMusic]

Sorry to see a couple of the posts already. We're told to LIE about being thru-hikers, and we're also told if LEO enforce the laws, they are being "jerks."

Fortunately, most WBers have more character!

Instead of just complaining about (me) calling someone a jerk for the situation I posted......answer the question. Actually give the situation some thought.

Should that section hike, with permit, ask all those sleeping in the full shelter for permits, should they arrive at the shelter after dark and everyone is asleep? If no one owns up, then what? Call for Mommy?

I know you can do it.

[max patch]

One thing I've been confused about re permits in the Smokies. I understand about the 50 mile rule defining thruhikers and how non-thruhikers must have reservations. What I don't understand is what happens (as probably often does in the Spring) when say 20 legitimate bonafide thruhikers show up at a shelter which sleeps 12 and may also include 3-4 non-thrus with reservations? Is the 13th person supposed to move on to the next shelter, even if it's 10 miles ahead and dark? And suppose the next shelter is also full?

I agree with all the other posters that hikers must carry tents/hammocks/tarps/ whatever as at least an emergency backup - it would be irresponsible not to do so.

Camp within view of the shelter.

[Rockhound]

The only times I've stayed in GSMNP i was in compliance with the 50 mile rule. I see my sarcastic humor went over someones head. I stand by my privy opinion however. Start charging a few bucks and install composting privies rather than have **** spread out all over the place. At 9 million visitors a year I don't figure it would take too long to raise the necessary funds.

[icemanat95]

Sorry to see a couple of the posts already. We're told to LIE about being thru-hikers, and we're also told if LEO enforce the laws, they are being "jerks."

Fortunately, most WBers have more character!

Don't act superior to the quite reasonable rules the GSMNP folks have in place, and to other hikers who obey the rules. Don't denigrate the GSMNP folks if they enforce them based on your convenience (or not).

Rather sad attitudes in my opinion.

Rain Man

.

Rain Man, A lot of thru-hikers tend to be anti-authority, anti-rules...at least in so far as they apply to them. There can also be a sense of entitlement among thrus that cannot be justified, and is why a lot of other hikers think of thru-hikers as prima donas. I remember this all to well, and with some shame from my own thru-hiking days....before I realized that the only thing that makes a thru-hiker "special" is that they have enough free time to spend 6 months on vacation.

As you said however, most White Blaze folks have more sense than that.

[Rockhound]

If they are thru-hiking they can camp (when the shelter is full) so there is no reason for the holier than thou crowd to get their panties in a wad.

[Procras108r]

What are the requirements for a thru hiker using a hammock?

I realize that I will not need to make a reservation for a shelter space. But since the hammock does not have a footprint or damage any ground flora, I wonder if I am allowed to set it up in the park. Of course, this means that I would have to set up the hammock in the picnic areas because the foot traffic has already damaged any plant life.

Please forgive my ignorance. I am a newbie to the site and to hiking, but I enjoy your advice.

[Cookerhiker]

The only times I've stayed in GSMNP i was in compliance with the 50 mile rule. I see my sarcastic humor went over someones head. I stand by my privy opinion however. Start charging a few bucks and install composting privies rather than have **** spread out all over the place. At 9 million visitors a year I don't figure it would take too long to raise the necessary funds.

I agree with you re the privies being more ecologically sound but surely you're aware that of the 9 million visitors, the vast majority stick to their cars on the main i.e. paved roads and only leave their vehicles at Newfound Gap and (maybe) Clingman's Dome. Now I'm not an expert or experienced on the Smokies but I hiked there last week. In the backcountry, I saw maybe 12 people in 3 days but driving afterwards across Newfound Gap, there were hordes.

Any funds raised from charging the 9 million will be spent commensurate from where the money came from meaning road and VC improvements and perhaps Park staff, but not backcountry needs. And fees in GSMNP will never happen at this point - the politicians won't allow it and Rt. 441 is a public highway.

It shouldn't be that way but it is.

[Doctari]

Take a shelter!!!! As stated: Not doing so is IRRESPONSIBLE in the extreme, for the reasons mentioned. I have been at the MtCollins shelter where 4 HAD TO camp out (3 tents), and as mentioned above, permits or not, it didn't matter cause it's a 7.5 mile hike south to a shelter (that was also full that night) or similar miles to the north, also possibly full on that cold & rainy night.
"Don't take a tent" has got to be the WORST advice I have ever seen here!!!

[mudhead]

One thing I've been confused about re permits in the Smokies. .

Camp within view of the shelter.

What he said. I think it was "visual line of sight."

Any funds raised from charging the 9 million will be spent commensurate from where the money came from meaning road and VC improvements and perhaps Park staff, but not backcountry needs. And fees in GSMNP will never happen at this point - the politicians won't allow it and Rt. 441 is a public highway.

It shouldn't be that way but it is.

Some issues with entry fees there and some of the original deeds to the park. If some other mechanism were found, I assure you national parks like to build buildings and trails near buildings. They also like shiny new cars and trucks.

[weary]

....I have to wonder, if they are so concerned about preserving the land and beauty up there, why are there no privies? Instead you have to take your chances in the minefields up there. They just took the time and money to refurbish all the shelters but still no privies. I think GSMNP could learn a thing or two from how they do things in the Whites. If need be start charging a few bucks a night at the shelters to help pay for it instead of having feces spread out all over the place. correct me if I'm wrong but this also attracts bears, no?

I agree 100 percent. It's totally irresponsible not to have privies at the GSMNP shelters. The argument is that the soils are not suitable. I think bureaucratic laziness and inertia are more likely. If MATC working in Maine can find suitable soils for privies among the eroded rocks left by glaciers, surely there are suitable privy locations among the deep soils of the south.

Weary

[Spokes]

...... The backcountry office number is 865-436-1231 or 865-436-1297. The phone may be busy during peak season, but keep trying.

OUCH!!! My head still hurts from snapping back due to the spontaneous laughter. The only telephone number harder to get people to answer is the DMV.

BTW, My tent does just fine in stealth mode thank you very much.............