How cold does it get?

[sbhikes]

I sometimes wonder if people make better decisions when they don't have a panic button. I mean, if you know you can't make contact with the outside world, do you think of more plan Bs? I don't want to blame the SPOT or whatever, but I traveled alone and all the time I would be thinking about plan B. And sometimes when I got into a situation I did not like, I would actually sit down (if sitting down didn't risk my life) for a minute and think it through. So I wonder if maybe if she had thought it through, tried to answer her own question of how to stay dry, if she would have figure it out. I think her kit could have worked fine to keep her alive, if not completely comfortable (no down at the bottom of the bag? Sounds like cold feet to me.)

[Tipi Walter]

Tipi Walter, thanks for sharing your interesting story, she thought she was going to be "okay", but she wasn't. Certainly she learned some wisdom from her experiences, I hope she applies them on her next hike.

She ended her trip with these interesting quotes:

Day 74: "I'm not a hiker. I've determined that for sure--this is just not my cup of tea."

Day 101: "I'm just not happy out here, I mean, most of the time, I'm actually pretty miserable."

[Tipi Walter]

I sometimes wonder if people make better decisions when they don't have a panic button. I mean, if you know you can't make contact with the outside world, do you think of more plan Bs? I don't want to blame the SPOT or whatever, but I traveled alone and all the time I would be thinking about plan B. And sometimes when I got into a situation I did not like, I would actually sit down (if sitting down didn't risk my life) for a minute and think it through. So I wonder if maybe if she had thought it through, tried to answer her own question of how to stay dry, if she would have figure it out. I think her kit could have worked fine to keep her alive, if not completely comfortable (no down at the bottom of the bag? Sounds like cold feet to me.)

It's a sad story, really, as once she hit HELP and then 911 her brother and her Dad got emergency plane tickets and flew out to California and did god knows what else to arrive at a motel close to her location. The Inyo police were notified and all the rest. For me, the moral of the story is: NEVER, EVER, CARRY A SPOT!!

[ShelterLeopard]

SPOT= terrible idea and waste of money. If you don't know what you're doing, you need to figure it out before hitting the trail.

[Guy]

I was thinking of getting a SPOT device for my PCT thru hike, but I'm starting to lean away from it now. Mainly because I don't want to carry something that I'm not going to use, but also it strikes me as something that gives people over-confidence and allows them to think that they can rely on some external force to rescue them.

The only defense that I can provide for Sologirl is that bad judgment is a symptom of hypothermia.

[Tipi Walter]

If you could define "Backpacking", it could be done with these two words: Managing discomfort. I think most of us have slept cold and wet and got to a campsite shivering like a hittite on horseback but we chalked it up to being outdoors. Par for the course. We learned over time or just quit going out, and we never carried anything like a SPOT.

Cold, wet, bug eaten, too hot, sweaty, wind-whipped, lightning-cowered, blizzard-engulfed: who hasn't hugged up to Miss Nature and got bruised? Had SoloGirl not carried a SPOT, she would've survived the night tossing and turning like we've all done and woke up to a new sunny day ready to hike. The slow transformation of the Newb caterpillar into the educated butterfly, welcome to Ridgetop College and a slow metamorphosis.

[Mags]

Experience is an excellent teacher..but the tuition is high.


(God knows I've paid many tuition fees to the Outdoor School of Hard Knocks over the years. )

[Dogwood]

If you could define "Backpacking", it could be done with these two words: Managing discomfort. I think most of us have slept cold and wet and got to a campsite shivering like a hittite on horseback but we chalked it up to being outdoors. Par for the course. We learned over time or just quit going out, and we never carried anything like a SPOT.

Cold, wet, bug eaten, too hot, sweaty, wind-whipped, lightning-cowered, blizzard-engulfed: who hasn't hugged up to Miss Nature and got bruised? .... The slow transformation of the Newb caterpillar into the educated butterfly, welcome to Ridgetop College and a slow metamorphosis.

Tipi Walter, that was downright poetic and entertaining! Humm, backpacking is about Managing Discomfort. Never thought about it just like that. Especially enjoyed the Hittite on horseback, hugging up to Miss Nature, and Ridgetop College phrases. And, always enjoyed trying to clearly say the word metamorphosis.

[Tipi Walter]

Had to google it to spell it righte.

[TwoForty]

Oh lord, now you've done it. You mentioned the spot. Might as well invite the PCT-L people over

[frisbeefreek]

Yeah, mention spot, and you start a inferno bigger than the Station Fire.

Maybe the spot needs another button. It could have a little icicle on it and send a message to your family that says "I'm cold send hot chocolate"

[Tipi Walter]

I came up with a new handheld system called the PONDs, Pinpoint Onboard Napalm Delivery system, with the "Burnt Ash" option button. Backpackers who carry it will always remember what the Immolate Now button means and the incoming pinpoint napalm if they push it. Keeps newbs on their toes and experts humbled.

[Gray Blazer]

I came up with a new handheld system called the PONDs, Pinpoint Onboard Napalm Delivery system, with the "Burnt Ash" option button. Backpackers who carry it will always remember what the Immolate Now button means and the incoming pinpoint napalm if they push it. Keeps newbs on their toes and experts humbled.

I love the smell of napalm in the morning.

[Tipi Walter]

I love the smell of napalm in the morning.

A lost backpacker gets both, the wonderful smell of napalm in the morning, and terminally rescued.

[skinewmexico]

If you could define "Backpacking", it could be done with these two words: Managing discomfort.

That is about the most perfect description I've ever seen, and I'll be stealing your phrase. I'll just make sure not to use it on the Boy Scouts we're trying to peel away from an X-Box, and their mommas.

[garlic08]

I came up with a new handheld system called the PONDs, Pinpoint Onboard Napalm Delivery system, with the "Burnt Ash" option button. Backpackers who carry it will always remember what the Immolate Now button means and the incoming pinpoint napalm if they push it. Keeps newbs on their toes and experts humbled.

Love it. Just like getting rid of seat belts and replacing the driver's side air bag with an 8" spike would make people drive much more carefully. Where is this thread going to end up?

[sbhikes]

Yeah, mention spot, and you start a inferno bigger than the Station Fire.

Maybe the spot needs another button. It could have a little icicle on it and send a message to your family that says "I'm cold send hot chocolate"

Make one with a button that says "I'm broke, send money" and I'm in.

Managing discomfort. Perfect. That's what it is. That and managing anxiety.

I tried to share a similar sentiment on the PCT-L and was called an idiot. No! They argue. It's DANGEROUS out there. Death and destruction around every corner.

[sarbar]

It is called "Sucking it up". :P

[Snowleopard]

I read the journal by sologirl. My take on what happened to her is hypothermia. She needed to take action sooner to keep warm. I don't think using the Spot to call for rescue was a mistake. As it turns out, she needed an "I'm OK now." button.

The main lesson to take from this is you need to bring enough warm clothes to keep warm in the wet and cold. Dry and cold is a lot easier.

I recommend reading Old Fhart's hypothermia article, http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...6&postcount=24

[weary]

All this reminds me of a trail journal I took out on my last trip by SoloGirl on the PCT(Postholer.com). I think we talked about it earlier here on Whiteblaze. Short version: She went UL with a 19lb kit and ended up in a collapsed tarp at around 9,500 feet with a wet Bic lighter and dipping temps with snow. It's an interesting story and one I've sort of studied in some detail because it was all I had to read for a couple weeks in my own snowstorm and in my own tent but here in the southeast.

Anyway, she carried a SPOT and ended up hitting 911 on the thing but made it thru the night on a cold Ridgerest and survived. I wonder if the Inyo sheriff's department sent her a bill?

Briefly, this was her kit:
Gossamer Gear Mariposa pack 18oz
Mt laurel Designs Soul bivy sac 8.3oz
Integral Design Siltarp 5x8 70z.
Nunatak Catabatic SL sleeping bag, rated 20F, 800fill, no zipper but has hood(no down fill on the bottom of the bag), 14.1oz
Thermarest 3/4 Ridgerest.

HER HIKING DILEMMA EXPOUNDED, and I quote:
"The dilemma is knowing when the rain/snow is transitory enough to walk through and when it's severe enough to hunker down, make camp and stay warm. If a hiker "walks through" a rain that they think is going to stop after 1/2 hour then they can just keep on walking and eventually dry out. But if it's going to last longer, then the hiker is wet and cold by the time they make camp and that's not a good situation. Sometimes it's hard to know if something is going to blow over and when something is here to stay. I started hiking again after my nap and it was still hailing and snowing." SOLOGIRL

She kept hiking past the "warm body" point and then she had this to say:

"I knew that as soon as I stop hiking I should get out of my wet clothes or I'll get super chilled, but here's my question: if I get out of my wet clothes and put on my dry clothes, then how do I keep my dry clothes dry as I take the time to make camp?" SOLOGIRL.

My answer, of course, would be to get to camp wet and cold, throw off the pack and set up the shelter first thing and leave your wet clothes on. The most important thing is to have a shelter up where you can go to change. You'll be shivering like a hoplite facing the mongol hordes but get the shelter up fast and then worry about putting on the dry stuff.

With frozen hands she couldn't get the tarp tied up and it collapsed, so she crawled under it, hit 911, etc etc. The panic button.

It's a good story and a cautionary tale.

Many thanks Tipi. A great story.

I haven't hiked enough in the west to make a comment, but I started the AT in Georgia in mid April with a 40+ degree down bag. I'd had minimal high mountain experience south of Maine. I guessed Georgia in April would be a bit like January in Miami, Florida. It wasn't. It was many degrees colder.

But I carried the same 40 degree + sleeping bag liner north to Katahdin and my summit on Oct. 16.

I had a few chilly nights early and late, but nothing serious. The bag was 20 years old at the time -- now 40. But it still serves in Maine from April to November, augmented by a down jacket, dry wool socks and sometimes whatever spare clothing I'm carrying...

Weary