Backpacks in tents

[skeeter]

I bought a tent w/ good vestibule space and was planning on keeping my pack in that area, food hung in bear bag. I have read many times that hikers say they never keep their pack in their tent. Why would this be a prefrence over keeping your bag in your tent or vestibule?

[Pedaling Fool]

I always keep my pack in food in my tent; given enough rain it can get wet in the vestibule and bugs are an issue.

[Pedaling Fool]

I always keep my pack in food in my tent...

Correction: I always keep my pack and food in my tent

[Tipi Walter]

My routine is to hang the two food bags up(and the dog's pack), put the empty pack in the tent vestibule, and not look at it again until the next morning. The only time I keep my food bags in the tent vestibule(and only in the vestibule)is during a sleet/rain storm. Otherwise they have to be hung due to rodent activity. Over the years I probably have had several hundred rodents(mice mostly, sometimes a raccoon or skunks) come into my unzipped tent looking for food, or waking me up by running across my face and neck. And of these hundreds(including up at the tipi)about 30 or them decided to chew holes in my food bags, whether hanging or not. The only reason I hang my food at all is 1, to keep the big mammals occupied elsewhere, and 2, to keep the clever mice away from my tent.

People who say they never get chew holes in their food bags or in their tents if that's where they keep their food, makes me wonder how often they camp or where they set up. Any established campsite(not AT shelter)will have mice, the only rodent free camping spots I've found have been ones never used before. And when the temps fall to zero or below the rodents don't seem to care or get out much.

[Jack Tarlin]

Your backpack is fine in your tent. In fact, it's safer there. I've heard of at least two folks who lost their packs entirely (i.e. they were dragged off God knows where) in the middle of the night: One had been tied loosely to a tree and one had been bear-bagged.

[Skyline]

I keep my unloaded pack inside my tent at all times when camping. Anything that is food-related—or smells like it might be—gets hung from a sturdy tree branch at least 10 ft. up and at least four feet out from the main tree trunk.

The pack would (barely) fit in my tent's vestibule but it's then susceptible to invasion by rodents, bugs, water/mud if raining, or theft by four-legged or two-legged creatures. The pack won't be excessively wet because I use a pack cover (which will likely go in the vestibule or be hung securely nearby).

Never had a problem keeping a pack inside my tent. In grizzly country out west I might reconsider and probably hang it even higher than in the east, but for most of the AT and other trails in the east I don't see the need to reconsider.

[Nicksaari]

bear and critters have a more acute sense of smell. the food smell and small particles of food are all over your food bag, whether its a dry bag, or a trash bag. this smell and particulates transfer to anything it touches, i.e. the inside/outside/cinch cord on your bag. anything.
depending on the area, and its critter activity, i would decide to sleep with my bag OR not on an individualistic basis.
remember that after you eat, its also a good idea to wash your hands and face clean after eating, as you dont not want a bear to come and take a bite out of your ramen smelling face.

[Wise Old Owl]

well that is what I used to do. Stuff flopps out and gets all over the tent. Now I hang it below eye level from a branch next to the tent, and its far more manageable.

[Dogwood]

When I do carry a tent, especially without a vestibule, I virtually always bring my pack into my tent. Never had a problem. I don't see why it would be a problem. I almost always use my empty pack(meaning I carefully shake out my unloaded empty pack before bringing it into the tent) under my lower half for additional comfort and insulation from the ground. What I don't do is bring food or scented items that might attract animals, like bears, into my tent. I leave items like my food, cookware, sunscreen, insect repellant, tootpaste, etc. outside my tent, in a separate stuff sack bear bagged or bear canister, especially in known bear areas.

Aside from concerns about animals the only reason I can see for not bringing my empty pack into a tent is if it has gotten soaking wet or muddy.

[Dogwood]

I can certainly understand Nicksaari's arguement. He makes a very valid pt. If I was in grizzly country, then perhaps, no, I wouldn't bring my pack into the tent. Other animals, I'm not so concerned with.

If you look at known grizzly habitat in the lower 48 it isn't that large of an area.

[The Weasel]

I can certainly understand Nicksaari's arguement. He makes a very valid pt. If I was in grizzly country, then perhaps, no, I wouldn't bring my pack into the tent. Other animals, I'm not so concerned with.

If you look at known grizzly habitat in the lower 48 it isn't that large of an area.

Black bears will totally trash a tent, pack, all your other gear and chase you out of your campsite, especially if the site is one that has been used in the past (much for LNT practices!). Racoons, 'possums, fox and skunks are nearly as intrusive, including when you are inside, and have claws that make tent fabric like tissue. They can be rabid. Mini-bears, also known as chipmunks, will do serious damage. (We won't discuss weasels and their propensity for taking things!) They are drawn not only to the food smells that will permeate your pack (they live off their sense of scent, and are far more sensitive than yours) but also dirty clothing, especially underwear and socks, particularly to satisfy salt cravings.

These are not the fevered imaginings of a cheechako; each has happened to me, and each has occured to me in AT areas as well as Michigan. It's not going to happen every time, it's not going to happen most times, but it's going to happen. Putting your pack in your vesibule will at least keep most animals a few feet from you if they get interested in your pack, and most of them, after ruining a few things and dragging a couple others off, will leave you alone.

Those who choose to disagree are invited to read my suggestions w for Backpackers (articles section) for making sure your homeowners/renters insurance provides coverage for such damage. I'm aware of one claim that exceeded $1,000 for tent, pack, clothing that was trashed by a black bear in northern Michigan.



TW

[Lone Wolf]

Black bears will totally trash a tent, pack, all your other gear and chase you out of your campsite, especially if the site is one that has been used in the past (much for LNT practices!).

Those who choose to disagree are invited to read my suggestions w for Backpackers

you've got like 600 AT miles? i've got 16,000 or so. you really do not know what you speak of

[Jack Tarlin]

With no disrespect to Weasel or anyone else, I've been around the A.T. awhile, too, and I've heard of exactly two people who had their tents "trashed" while they were inside them or were forced to flee a campsite in the middle of the night because of bear activity.

The Eastern Black Bear is usually very skittish around humans and will very seldom bother people camped in tents.

I'm not saying it doesn't ever happen. But it's not really something one has to worry about on the A.T.

[The Weasel]

you've got like 600 AT miles? i've got 16,000 or so. you really do not know what you speak of

Well gosh. I don't brag as much as LW, I guess, and he's probably right about anything he wants to brag about. But I've been hiking, fairly constantly, for something a bit north of 50 years. But I never got the odometer implant, so I can't tell all you folks about how many miles I've walked. I know they're more than some and fewer than others.

But from having done some serious hiking in, lessee, a dozen and a half "or so" states, including most of the AT states, and all of the ones I've hiked in have fairly large black bear populations. I've had about 5 camp trashings from black bears (out of a few dozen sightings), one of which was a little intimidating because it was a sow with a cub apparently nearby, which is a bit risky. I'm aware of a number of other confrontations, including black bear in the San Gorgonio
Wilderness out here, but most were Michigan bears in northern Michigan and the UP. I'm also minded of the death who was killed only a few years ago in GSMNP; while that wasn't precisely on the AT, it reminds people (or should) that 600 lbs of ursine hunger and curiosity is best avoided.

As for "skittishness" of the "Eastern Black Bear," there really isn't any different subspecies of Ursus Americanus whether she's in California or Virginia. They're different from grizzlies (who are really serious bad actors to the point that backpackers in some parks have to essentially sleep in cages). It's because of Black Bears that hikers in much of California are required to carry bear vaults. And I didn't understand the OP to only be asking about these apparently tame bears along the AT, but to be inquiring about a general practice. When I've hiked the Porkies in Michigan, just like around here, and, yes, along the AT, I don't have my pack inside my tent.

Others can differ. But it's sort of one of those things where it's not that much of an imposition to do the 'safe thing' every time, since you really only need to have one instance of an attack to kind of ruin a trip or more.

TW

[HooKooDooKu]

...I'm also minded of the death who was killed only a few years ago in GSMNP; while that wasn't precisely on the AT, it reminds people (or should) that 600 lbs of ursine hunger and curiosity is best avoided....

The bear that killed a woman in GSMNP was a typical 100-120lbs bear. The only bears that even get above 400lbs are the "trash" bears that live on the edge of the park and live off the "trash" of the city.

...Oh, and speaking of the difference between Eastern animals and western ones, the rattlesnakes aren't that different either.

And like the bears, except for this one incident years ago, nobody's ever died of snakbite in the Smokies, either.

Unless that death was within the last several years, the last I ever read (from official GSMNP sources) was that there had never been a single recorded instance of death from snake bit within GSMNP.

[birdog]

Tipi Walter, I'm with you. I seem to attract mice wherever I go in the Smoky's. Had holes chewed in packs and tents. Too expensive a lesson for me to continue storing stuff inside the tent. I hang everything save a headlamp and a water bottle.

[Tipi Walter]

Your backpack is fine in your tent. In fact, it's safer there. I've heard of at least two folks who lost their packs entirely (i.e. they were dragged off God knows where) in the middle of the night: One had been tied loosely to a tree and one had been bear-bagged.

I saw a guy up around 5,240 feet last year in a blizzard with around 10F temps and he bailed from his hammock in the middle of the night for a buddy's tent and during it all he left his pack sitting outside by a tree. In the morning when they were gearing up his backpack looked like it got dipped in a frozen lake and left to harden. No zipper worked and the three straps were stuck fast. The problem was, he left his pack out a couple days before and it got soaked, and then the temps dipped and what was wet became concrete. Now add frozen fingers trying to zip up stuff and loosen straps . . .

I've never had an empty pack dragged off, then again, my packs are usually big butt models 8lbs empty. I did have a cur stray hunting dog jump up into a tree and pull down a dogpack and attempt to eat like a king before I got to him. One time I was packing up and had a nice new loaf of whole wheat bread in an unzipped pack pocket and I turned my back to roll up the tent when a stray dog reached in and pulled out the bread and ate it in about 10 seconds.

[birdog]

As far as grizz country is concerned, and your right, the area is small in the lower 48, hang everything, and I mean everything. Maybe even yourself! In Montana where the bear population is strong it doesnt take but one newspaper clipping to convince most people to abide by ALL food storage precautions. You just can't appreciate the danger posed by an animal that is 10 feet long, 1200 lbs, and HUNGRY all the time until you see one up close and personal.

[Feral Bill]

As far as grizz country is concerned, and your right, the area is small in the lower 48, hang everything, and I mean everything. Maybe even yourself! In Montana where the bear population is strong it doesnt take but one newspaper clipping to convince most people to abide by ALL food storage precautions. You just can't appreciate the danger posed by an animal that is 10 feet long, 1200 lbs, and HUNGRY all the time until you see one up close and personal.

The area is small but contains some country you would not want to miss. Fortunately, lower 48 grizzlies are "only" 300-400 pounds, and not very aggressive outside Glacier NP. My food gets hung, pack's in the tent. I believe people who expect to have no food odors on them are dreaming.

FB

[Tipi Walter]

The area is small but contains some country you would not want to miss. Fortunately, lower 48 grizzlies are "only" 300-400 pounds, and not very aggressive outside Glacier NP. My food gets hung, pack's in the tent. I believe people who expect to have no food odors on them are dreaming.

FB

I agree. We are covered in smells and we can't exactly hang outselves from trees. What I wonder about is the stomach: it's a full food bag sitting right inside the tent all night long.