The WhiteBlaze in Wartime

[bunbun]

The memos in question have not been proven to be false, only thought to be. There are no experts that state otherwise. However, I do beleive they are probably fakes, but it has not been proven as of yet.

Hmmm - not to put too fine a point on it, but -- a few samples of what's going around out here in the real world -

Sandra Ramsey Lines, for instance - a forensic document expert who edits the Journal of the American Society of Questioned Document Examiners - told the Associated Press that she "could testify in court that, beyond a reasonable doubt, her opinion was that the memos were written on a computer."

"They're forged as hell," former Guard director Earl W. Lively told the Washington Times. "There's no way that [Bush's commanding officer] Jerry Killian would have written what they've come up with."

According to Dr. Philip Bouffard, one of the two top Forensic Document Examiners in the US, it's "hard to put an exact percentage number on the chances that this was a fake , but I'd say it's at least 90%.".

Add the small problem of the signature of Killian's commanding officer - who retired 18 months prior to the date of one of the memos on which his signature "appears"? Or the statements of Killian's widow and son? Or about two dozen other problems that Rather failed to address in his defense of the whopper he tried to perpetrate? Or maybe the fact that CBS doesn't have - and apparently can't get - the originals of those memos. And that at least two CBS staffers have reportedly said that the memos came from the Kerry camp via a cutout. And finally - the coup de grace - that the whole thing has disappeared from the front pages of all the major newspapers and will probably be dropped by all the major networks except Fox in an effort to bury the subject. Just like they tried to bury the Swift Vets.

C'mon - even Weary has admitted that they're fake.

Speaking of - what were those words about "the skill of Republicans in covering up and disguising malfeasance"? Run that by me again?

The only questions left are - WHO actually perpetrated the hoax on Rather? and how long is it gonna take Rather & Co to play the "mea culpa" game and try to save his job?

Finally - for BJ - of course you did. Sometimes you should read what you write - and figure out what you actually said. But we all have that problem sometimes, don't we?

[Sly]

You don't consider US News and World Report a reputible news source yet expect me to trust in National Review?

How anyone can belleive that Bush did not shirk his duty in the NG is beyond me.

Ok, here's another scenerio on just what Bush was up to...

BUSH: THE MISSING YEARS
By Jason Gay
In January 1973, Private Gary Donahue was on his second tour of duty in Vietnam when he stopped with a few other GIs at a sweaty Saigon bar called the Roc Club. It was nearing midnight, and the place was thick with well-lubricated soldiers and local women. A middle-aged Vietnamese crooner prowled a makeshift stage, singing standards like "Mack the Knife" and "Luck Be a Lady."

Suddenly, a trim, clean-cut American grabbed the microphone. "Howdy, folks!" the man yelled in a slight twang. "How ya'll feel about hearing a little music?" Donning a straw Vietnamese hat, the man launched into a raucous, heartfelt version of "Deep in the Heart of Texas" and then "Wooly Bully."

The rest of the story (long)...

http://us.gq.com/features/content/pr...agination=none

[Sly]

Here's a good link (I hope) to the US News and World report article....

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/0...ws/20guard.htm

[Nightwalker]

Weary, who truly admires the skill of Republicans in covering up and disguising malfeasance.

My guess is that they learned it from the Clinton folks...


Don't waste your vote! Nader 2004!

[weary]

LOL!!! -
Bob - that's just dumber than a doorknob.
First because if they were caught at it, it would be an auotmatic end to the Republican Presidential campaign. Unlike the liberal/left fringe, the average American doesn't condone lying and subterfuge.
D

Jimmy, you misread my message -- probably because I was not as clear as I should have been.

I don't believe the White House or Bush made up the fake papers, if that is what they were. As I understand it they were sent to the White House by CBS news.

The White House then released them to others "without comment." My suspicion is that the "without comment" was deliberate. That they knew immediately they were fake but deliberately did not say so, knowing others would quickly do that job for them. Thus the not commentlng was an effort to cast doubt on all the records that suggest Bush served less than diligently in the National Guard.

In any case, whether the White House knew the documents were fake or not, releasing the "fake" documents without comment in fact will cause many to assume that all the documents relating to Bush's Vietnam era service are equally flawed.

Weary

[Blue Jay]

Finally - don't you find it a little odd that the Democrats would nominate someone for the Presidency who's not only a proven liar and an unindicted war criminal (by his own words), but also a quite ordinary criminal in that he violated Article 104, part 904 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, as well as U.S. Code 18 U.S.C. 953, and also Article 3, Section 3 of the US Constitution. In addition, your contempt for Oliver North for his Congressional immunity should be extended to John Kerry in that he was also the recipient of Congressional immunity during and after the 1971 Senate hearings and during the Winter Soldier investigation.

I don't find it odd at all. Kerry has the same position that the Generals have when they play the Globe Trotters. Kerry has the same position as the no name wrastler (spelled correctly) who goes against someone named Hulk or Savage. You are all being had, soooo openly it is pathetic. This is not a democracy it is corporate feudelism and not even being hidden. There does not have to be a conspiracy or anything at all secret. It's all right out in front of you and not only do you accept it, you like it.

[eyahiker]

bunbun - you keep up the great posts!

Don't be discouraged!

[smokymtnsteve]

"Whenever I read _Time_ or _Newsweek_ or such magazines, I wash my hands afterward. But how to wash off the small but odious stain such reading leaves on the mind?"

THANKS BE TO ABBEY!

[eyahiker]

Hi Smkmtsteve, what or who is Abbey? Are you referring to Edward Abbey? The gadfly anarchist writer who popularized environmental activisim?

[smokymtnsteve]

yes..Edward ABBEY

PLEASE STAND FOR THE GOSPEL OF ABBEY!

"Christian theology: nothing so grotesque could possibly be true."

THANKS BE TO ABBEY!

[eyahiker]

Nature is often pretty grotesque.

Now I see where you are coming from. Thanks for sharing.

[smokymtnsteve]

"Fantastic doctrines (like Christianity or Islam or Marxism) require unanimity of belief. One dissenter casts doubt on the creed of millions. Thus the fear and the hate; thus the torture chamber, the iron stake, the gallows, the labor camp, the psychiatric ward."

THANKS BE TO ABBEY!

[eyahiker]

"Fantastic doctrines

Hmmm. Abbey was American who enjoyed his freedom of speech.

Who paid for this freedom?

[smokymtnsteve]

Mr. Abbey himself...he served in the US military in Italy 1945-1947.

[eyahiker]

I am glad to hear that, a fact I did not know, thanks.

What reading of Abbey's would you suggest? I have not read anything yet.
All of the things you mentioned from Gallows - psych wards, will all happen regardless. Human nature and physical flaws.

[smokymtnsteve]

I am glad to hear that, a fact I did not know, thanks.

What reading of Abbey's would you suggest? I have not read anything yet.
All of the things you mentioned from Gallows - psych wards, will all happen regardless. Human nature and physical flaws.

Mr. Abbey wrote fiction,(monkey wrench gang, hayduke lives,) which are good books and fun reads,,,I however like his non-fiction best , Desert Solitare, Down the River.

you however may not like reading abbey as he was not very fond of Xians.
you would need an open mind to read and understand abbey...who would have been very opposed to Mr. Bush's world view.

PLEASE STAND FOR THE GOSPEL OF ABBEY!

"The best argument for Christianity is the Gregorian chant. Listening to that music, one can believe anything--while the music lasts."

THANKS BE TO ABBEY!

[eyahiker]

I like reading other environmentalist literature!

I'll probably like his stuff, will check it out........ but will of course discount his stabs at God or faith and realize he can't possibly know about the subject matter enough to write about it. Sounds like he was pretty intolerant and judgmental to me.

But, I will check out some of his writings, thanks for the suggestion on the titles!

[smokymtnsteve]

I like reading other environmentalist literature!

I'll probably like his stuff, will check it out........ but will of course discount his stabs at God or faith and realize he can't possibly know about the subject matter enough to write about it. Sounds like he was pretty intolerant and judgmental to me.

But, I will check out some of his writings, thanks for the suggestion on the titles!

Mr Abbey has the right to be judgemental and intolerant. He saw the effects of religion and the problems it causes. It is Xian theology that teachs to Judge not that ye not be judged...this would not apply to non-xians. Mr. Abbey was a quite well educated and worldly man and knew plenty enough to write about the subject of gods and faith.

PLEASE STAND FOR THE GOSPEL OF ABBEY!

"I once sat on a mesa above the Rio Grande for three days and nights, trying to have a vision. I got hungry and saw God in the form of a beef pie."

THANKS BE TO ABBEY!

[smokymtnsteve]

"The missionaries go forth to Christianize the savages--as if the savages weren't dangerous enough already."

THANKS BE TO ABBEY!

[bunbun]

Ok, here's another scenerio on just what Bush was up to...

BUSH: THE MISSING YEARS
By Jason Gay
In January 1973, Private Gary Donahue was on his second tour of duty in
The rest of the story (long)...

http://us.gq.com/features/content/pr...agination=none

Sly - Good story.
I'll trade you - then I'll answer your question ---

Newly Unearthed Bush National Guard Memo
by Dave Konig

MEMORANDUM FOR ME

TO: Me (Lt. Colonel Jerry B. Killian)
FROM: Me (Lt. Colonel Jerry B. Killian)
SUBJECT: Bush, George W. 1st Lt. 3244754FG


1. I am writing this memo to myself so that I, Lt. Colonel Jerry B. Killian (commanding officer of 1st Lt. George W. Bush) will have a record of the secret thoughts of me, Lt. Colonel Jerry B. Killian.

The rest of the story:
http://www.nationalreview.com/dkonig...0409140915.asp