Are WhiteBlaze Forums less busy this year?

[jnanagardener]

I check WhiteBlaze once a day because I appreciate the quality and depth of the responses. Some real quality folks out there who take the time to help. Yes there are a number of other sites and resources. But for on the spot, immediate resources, this site is the straight dope. If you're reading this, thank your self. If not, well, you don't know what you don't know...Quality over quantity!

[Chaco Taco]

Or at least, the loudest people disagree with me.

Will stick with original statement

[Chaco Taco]

I check WhiteBlaze once a day because I appreciate the quality and depth of the responses. Some real quality folks out there who take the time to help. Yes there are a number of other sites and resources. But for on the spot, immediate resources, this site is the straight dope. If you're reading this, thank your self. If not, well, you don't know what you don't know...Quality over quantity!

Good post

[weary]

That's completely untrue. People from across the board have had their posts moderated.

Many thanks Alligator for so bluntly illustrating the problem. Now work on the solution.

[Chaco Taco]

Or at least, the loudest people disagree with me.

[weary]

...I think the moderation here at Whiteblaze is perfectly fair and I reject the asssertion by Clyde that some folks have "special" status here. For example, contrary to what he implied, I have been moderated many times; I've had posts deleted or edited; I've been admonished both publicly and privately by moderators; I've even been warned once or twice to straighten up some of my posts or risk being put on "moderated" status, i.e my posts would require approval before posting.

So Clyde's assertion about some folks here having special privileges is simply false, period.....

Whatever. My posts have been deleted, threads have been closed to me, some threads have been closed entirely.... once I was banned from the site entirely. No one has ever seriously explained why. It's my suspicion however that it is mostly because my political views aren't always those of the owner of this site -- or possibly, with the political views of those the owner has chosen as moderators, perhaps both.

I stick around because I find trail debate interesting, when it is allowed. Plus I've reached an age where 10-hour-a-day trail work is just too onerous. I need a periodic break. Since Wingfoot abdicated, White Blaze is a reasonable substitute. No less bigoted, but still interesting at times.

Weary

[Jack Tarlin]

Clyde:

Yup. You're dead right. I didn't mention all of the lodging places in Erwin, i.e. all of the hostels, campgrounds and motels.

But if memory serves, this didn't just happen in the Erwin section.

There must be around 30 motels in Gorham for example, and I not only didn't name all of these establishments, I don't think I named ANY of them.

Likewise, in the Gatlinburg section, I failed to name all 429 lodging places available to hikers. I gues this shows horrible bias on my part.

Um, no, it doesn't. There are actually hundreds of facilities and businesses I didn't mention in my Article, Clyde. But then again, the article wasn't about lodging places. It's main focus was on Re-Supply. In fact, that's what the Article was titled.

I guess Clyde missed that part.

Imentioned Miss Janet's because it was the overwhelming favorite place to stay in Erwin in 2007, and also because it was uniquely located: Hikers that stayed there could very easily re-supply and get their other town errands done; also, hikers that weren't overnighting there were permited to leave their stuff there while they ran their town errands, which was not only a great kindness, but also a great convenience. So if I highlighted this unique place, there were many good reasons.

In short, the information that Clyde says I was lax in omitting was readily available in the various guidebooks that all hikers carried, or at least the information was available with the exception of places that were no longer listed in all the guidebooks.

But I'm not sure Clyde wants to re-hash all of this, right?

And lastly, Clyde suggested that it's simply not possible to argue with me here at Whiteblaze, or to disagree with me.

With all due respect, Clyde, what planet have you been on recently?

People disagree with me and argue with me here every single day. It happened today. It will in all likelihood happen tomorrow.

So Clyde, it's not that one can't argue with me here.

I suggest instead that some people are better at it than others, i.e. their arguments with me have merit, substance, and coherence.

I trust this makes things clearer for you.

[Jack Tarlin]

Weary:

I suspect that the moderation or deletion of the posts you mention was not because the site administrators don't care for your politics.

I think it likelier that this moderation took place because political discussion, of any stripe, is strongly discouraged here, and it's been that way for quite some time.

And of course, it wasn't only YOUR posts that were dealt with.

It happened to all sorts of folks, of all sorts of political persuasions, too.

[weary]

...First, discussions like this end fast when the topic becomes - even in part - whether the level of moderation here is too heavy. The moderators, including Alligator, do not approve of criticism, and their power, whether wielded wisely or not as some might opine, comes from ATTroll, whose site this is, and who has the right to do approve of that level of moderation.

Second, I think quantitatively there is a lower level of posts. There is a certain inhibiting factor to moderation (First Amendment lawyers refer to this as the "chilling effect" of censorship) which keeps people from posting when they have been moderated in the past, even with innocent posts. This means that qualitative nature of many posts goes down, as well.
....But that was then, and this is now. Value WhiteBlaze for what it is; it is a very useful site for people who need hiking information, especially about the AT.

TW

A very wise post, though I tend to suspect that ATTroll is less in control, than that he has stumbled into something that is way over his head or ability to control. He may have just chosen a lesser obnoxious way out.

But let me add, that this comment is mostly supposition. I've met ATTroll briefly, a couple of times. But we have never had a serious conversation. He lives only 30 or so miles away. Occasionally, I've suggested he join one of my guided walks on one of our town land trust trails. But so far, as far as I know, no response.

Weary

[Two Speed]

Clyde:

Yup. . . . I trust this makes things clearer for you.

Clyde's already apologized in Post #72. What more do you want?

[Johnny Thunder]

What more do you want?

BRAINS!!!

This thread was attacked by zombies.

[rcli4]

Jack this is not about you. Jack I used your artical as an example. Jack I should have used someone else. Jack, you don't need me to point out your short comings, at this time in your life.

Good day sir
Clyde

[Jack Tarlin]

Two Speed:

I suggest you go back and re-read #72 again.

The post begins with Clyde asserting that it isn't permitted to argue with me here on Whiteblaze, the implication being that I'm either never wrong, or that I have some sort of special rights and privileges here.

Which is absolutely false.

If this is Clyde's idea of expressing regret or apology, well, in all truth, he can keep it.

What do I want from him, you ask?

Pretty much same as I want from anyone, Two Speed. If someone is going to criticize someone else personally, use arguments and facts that stand up. Also, don't say things that you either can't back up or that are simply untrue. Oh, and maybe think about making contributions to this website that don't always seem to concern me. There are folks here who I wan't embarass by naming who contribute nothing here that's of any value but they never seem to miss the opportunity to jump on something I've said. Surely these folks have worthier things to discuss, right?

Or maybe some of them don't. In any case, it gets tired.

[Jack Tarlin]

"At this time in my life?"

I feel great, Clyde, and don't really know what you're talking about.

And your citation from the article was ridiculous. As I stated, Erwin wasn't the only place where I didn't mention EVERY business and facility. There were dozens of places where I didn't do this. Your criticism of me from beginning to end was senseless and without merit.

Sorta like the rest of your comments about me.

And truly, I think this dialogue is pretty much worn out, Clyde.

If you want to continue the conversation, do it without me.

[Bulldawg]

Jack, he said it wasn't about you. Clyde clearly stated he should have used another example. Calm down and step away for a moment, everything on this website is not always about you.

[rcli4]

"At this time in my life?"

I feel great, Clyde, and don't really know what you're talking about.

And your citation from the article was ridiculous. As I stated, Erwin wasn't the only place where I didn't mention EVERY business and facility. There were dozens of places where I didn't do this. Your criticism of me from beginning to end was senseless and without merit.

Sorta like the rest of your comments about me.

And truly, I think this dialogue is pretty much worn out, Clyde.

If you want to continue the conversation, do it without me.

I said Good day sir!

Clyde

[dixicritter]

Wow! Not surprising to see some things never change.

[Mags]

"I say good day Sir"...

Is it me..or would this be really killer to hear in British accent!!!!

How about Willie Wonka instead?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKG07305CBs

[prain4u]

O.K. Folks---I started this thread. May I now suggest that perhaps it is time for us all to make our final comments and wrap it up (basically one more round of comments for everyone)--then the moderator lock it up (and maybe even delete it?) Does that sound fair enough? I have received the answers to the questions that I initially raised-and no one has addressed the original questions for many posts anyway! : )

Let me make my own final observations--and wrap up my involvement in this tread:

1) My original questions were indeed sincere. I had taken a few month break from WhiteBlaze to do some other things in my life. I came back recently, and I immediately sensed that some things had changed (and indeed they have!). Some good changes---also some not as good changes (in my opinion).

2) As predicted by others, this simple thread quickly got "off topic" and became mean-spirited. That saddens me. There was no need for this to turn into a "fight".

3) In many ways, the greater moderation has led to a smoother site with less trash talking and less silly stuff. I appreciate that. I do believe people are probably using the "Search" function more before posting "new" questions that have already been answered multiple times. It does seem like there are less threads in the "General" and "Thru Hiker Specific" categories--but also more threads have been placed (or moved) to their "proper" sub-categories. That is probably a good thing.

4) On the other hand, the closer moderation has probably been (at times) too close and too "hands on". It has stifled good exchange of thoughts--and even sparked rebellion. The "rules" seem to be too closely and too rigidly applied. I would suggest that the moderators should not INITIATE any moderation activities on their own. They should step in ONLY when one of us contacts a moderator and raises a VALID complaint. (That is how MOST big forums operate--if no valid complaint is raised--then no moderation occurs. The moderators do not go looking for violations). It is actually OK to let us argue, fuss, fight and wander off topic. We can also choose to ignore threads and posts which offend us. WhiteBlaze will survive if the posters have a bit of a "longer leash".

4) Finally, having said all of that, I would also state that we ALL need to do a better job of "self-moderating". If we don't like (or don't want) to be overly moderated by outside forces--then we EACH need to do a better job of policing our own posts. There is no valid place for personal attacks on these forums (NOTE: "attacks" are different than constructive criticism or challenging someone's opinion--both of which are actually helpful and healthy). We should also probably stop OURSELVES from posting super silly, clearly rude, overly crude and way "off topic" posts. People who do such things on a regular basis should probably be barred from posting any comments that are not first screened by one of the moderators.

Thanks for answering my inital questions and thanks for enduring this overly long post.
I think all of the above things (and it being the holidays) have led to the lower number of recent posts--and they are possibly the reason why some good fellow hikers no longer seem to post much here.

[The Weasel]

O.K. Folks---I started this thread. May I now suggest that perhaps it is time for us all to make our final comments and wrap it up (basically one more round of comments for everyone)--then the moderator lock it up (and maybe even delete it?) Does that sound fair enough? ***

Prain ---

With all due respect (and yes, for raising this issue, you are due much respect), no it is not time to "wrap it up" and then "lock it up."

That's the problem here: The belief that one should use power just because one has it. That's sort of like nuclear weapons; what's the point of having them if you can't use them? The answer should be - but usually isn't - evident: Sometimes the best solution to a small problem is to do nothing.

Thread drift, or even repetition, harms no one except the poor fool who starts reading and can't stop, and they already are demented. And sometimes, as a seed can be found in a manure pile, even late in the game a thread can go in interesting and wonderful directions. That's probably the single best thing that we could ask the Moderators/Admins to do: Stop closing threads when YOU think they over but no one is being nasty. "Thread drift" and "repeated ideas" aren't TOS violations. So cut the rest of us a little slack; this isn't debate club, although arguing with Jack can be fun (see above) and even Monkey Boy is capable of scoring very useful points (see above).

But if this website is supposed to be the equivalent of sitting around a campfire, stop shutting down conversations because it's "late." If people are talking softly, and not waking or disturbing others, for cryin' out loud, stop saying that everyone should stop talking. Roll over and go to sleep and let the rest of us harmlessly enjoy the camaraderie.

So no, there is more to be said, and perhaps most of it is drivel. If so, go read the Times or watch George Lopez or even (egad!) go walking. For those of us who aren't doing any of those right now, let us continue our chat.

In a word, moderate yourself. And let us try to do the same.

The Weasel