tarps suck!!!!

[Jester2000]

On my PCT hike I used a tent sometimes, and a tarp others, and cowboy camped as much as I could.

I used an Etowah II alchohol stove for some of the trip, and also used an MSR Pocket Rocket.

I liked all of my gear, and used different gear in different circumstances. I'm either switching back and forth between cults, or I'm in a third cult that believes that the "right" gear depends on where you are, what you're doing, the weather, the altitude, what other weight you're carrying, how many people you're traveling with, and other factors.

[Two Speed]

Do you honestly expect anyone to choose their gear based on where they're hiking, their abilities and expected weather, and not some cast-in-concrete notion of what's "right" and what's "wrong?"

Get thee behind me, Satan!

[Jester2000]

Do you honestly expect anyone to choose their gear based on where they're hiking, their abilities and expected weather, and not some cast-in-concrete notion of what's "right" and what's "wrong?"

Get thee behind me, Satan!

Hahahahahaha! Reason runs counter to belief, which makes my cult evil.

[Two Speed]

Hahahahahaha! Reason runs counter to belief

As well it should.

which makes my cult evil.

Was there any doubt? Now be gone!

[300winmag]

OK, maybe you tarpers (and hammockers) are not in cults, just "shelter tribes".

But alky stove users ARE in a cult. Thsy love playing with them and building "better" ones and endlessly discussing the merits and demerits of different models. Having used them frequently in my checkered past I'll say the ONLY efficient alky stove I've seen is the Caldera cone, IMHO. And still, the fuel weight is not efficient after 3-4 days.

Eric

[Two Speed]

Ah jeez, someone got a link to Rock's article on that subject?

Found it. Short version is for most hikers on hikes less than 7 days* duration an alcohol stove was the lightest, the Cat Stove IIRC. Yeah, alky stoves burn more fuel per day, but the higher fixed weight of the canister and gasoline stoves screws you until the higher heat value of the fuel starts to kick in on longer duration hikes.

* 10 days? Gonna have to re-read the article for understanding.

[sasquatch2014]

When I think soda can stoves and the like I always think of it as UL stuff and I was once told that one of the principles of this is that you should try to have items serve dual purposes, therefor if you use and Alcohol stove you should use fuel that you can also drink. Moonshine works fine for this then you can spend your time tinkering with your still instead.

[Mags]

O
But alky stove users ARE in a cult. Thsy love playing with them and building "better" ones and endlessly discussing the merits and demerits of different models. Having used them frequently in my checkered past I'll say the ONLY efficient alky stove I've seen is the Caldera cone, IMHO. And still, the fuel weight is not efficient after 3-4 days.

I used a cut-off soda can bottom for the majority of the CDT. Really haven't improved it much since (unless you count new foil for my windscreen. ) It boiled water in ~5 minutes.

As an aside, an alchy stove loses efficiency after about 10 boils for the general standard ~2 cups for ea. meal. (I don't like thinking in terms of days as everyone is different in the amount of meals they do).

For longer hikes, I now go stoveless.

The only cult-like gear users are those who collect gear and hike less. As a person hikes more (generally speaking) gear is talked about less.

Grandma Mags was an awesome cook. What she could whip on a Sunday was simply amazing. Christmas? Those Italian cookies people pay $$$ in the chi-chi bakeries? Out of her memory she could make a tray that would make any so-called foodie salivate. I never heard her discuss the knife to use, or what brand of pot or the merits of this type of cutting board vs. another one.

She simply cooked. She simply baked. And it was awesome.

The "foodies" who go to Peppercorn and spend $50 for a garlic press will never, ever cook as well as my grandmother with a simple knife, some heat, a trusty pot and a spoon.

In the same way, those who drone on endlessly on why their choice is great and others suck (as opposed to saying why it works for THEIR way of backpacking. Subtle, but important difference), spend more time collecting gear and less time outdoors.

On trips with friends, we don't compare stoves...we hike and enjoy the gorgeous Colorado night ski.

On the thru-hikes, people who are gear centric are mostly ignored.

It is just gear. The least important part of backpacking. Tell us why you use a piece of gear. Why it works for you. But to somehow think a piece of gear is "best" or "better" than another person's choice? Pure gear wankery for gear hobbyists who are online.

[DavidNH]

Tarps are great until you get to bug season. Then they are horrible.

Solution: a tarp tent from henry Shire. loads of ventilation yet netting keeps out the bugs!

I know this sounds like an ad but its the truth!

DavidNH

[Jester2000]

For longer hikes, I now go stoveless.

I carry a stove on longer hikes, but I make up for the weight penalty by going pantsless.

[Mags]

I carry a stove on longer hikes, but I make up for the weight penalty by going pantsless.

Brings the concept of full moon hiking to another whole level....

[Red Hat]

I have a Zoid, a Tarptent Rainbow, and a Warbonnet Blackbird hammock. Loved my Zoid, till I got the Tarptent (1 lb lighter)... Loved my Tarptent, till the rain in Maine fell mainly on me and the slant I had to sleep on cause I was too slow to get a real tentsite... Thus the hammock... No more worries! Dry and comfortable! So my MacCat tarp goes with me and my hammock. I don't think I'd use it alone, though.. So I love my hammock and my tarp!

[BrianLe]

300winmag said:

"But alky stove users ARE in a cult. Thsy love playing with them and building "better" ones and endlessly discussing the merits and demerits of different models."

I know some car enthusiasts who are always talking about tweaking their cars, modifying them in some way, racing them, etc. In fact, however, a person can own and use a car without doing any of that. Ditto an alcohol stove.

"Having used them frequently in my checkered past I'll say the ONLY efficient alky stove I've seen is the Caldera cone, IMHO. And still, the fuel weight is not efficient after 3-4 days."

As a recent convert to a Caldera cone, I have no issues with the first sentence above. :-)
But fuel weight efficiency --- it depends on different factors, IMO it shouldn't be considered so open-and-shut. For example, on a solo trip I heat 1.5 to 2 cups of water a day on a one time basis (dinner only). This requires less than a fluid oz of fuel, somewhere in the 1/2 to 2/3 fluid oz range. So 8 fluid ounces of fuel lasts me at least 12 days. A fluid ounce of alcohol fuel weighs less than an oz, about 0.82 oz.

Even a small fuel cannister is a fairly heavy chunk of metal; an empty smaller size Snow Peak cannister weighs 2.6 oz, whereas an alcohol fuel bottle might weigh half that at most. At least my first two to three days of fuel are "free" just by dint of not carrying a heavy metal cannister (not factoring in here that the stove plus windscreen is likely lighter as well).

So for myself, at least, I don't buy the "not efficient after 3-4 days" claim. Certainly if you're cooking multiple times a day or for multiple people the dynamics are different. Even so, another way to look at it is that if fuel weight makes the alcohol stove user start the trip with a heavier stove+fuel setup, at some point s/he hits a break even point and for the remaining trip days the alcohol setup is lighter. For this reason I still bring the alcohol stove when I'm hiking with my wife.

[gunner76]

I take a tent but might not set it up depending on the weather but a few times the skeeters have forced me to use my tent when I had not planned on it. I did use a tarp one time when a friend and I were caught in a heavy rain and we could not find a level enough place for the tent but did find a spot just small enough for the tarp. Did not stay completly dry but we did survive the night.

Its all a personal choice of what you like and conditions.

[kanga]

I used a cut-off soda can bottom for the majority of the CDT. Really haven't improved it much since (unless you count new foil for my windscreen. ) It boiled water in ~5 minutes.

As an aside, an alchy stove loses efficiency after about 10 boils for the general standard ~2 cups for ea. meal. (I don't like thinking in terms of days as everyone is different in the amount of meals they do).

For longer hikes, I now go stoveless.

The only cult-like gear users are those who collect gear and hike less. As a person hikes more (generally speaking) gear is talked about less.

Grandma Mags was an awesome cook. What she could whip on a Sunday was simply amazing. Christmas? Those Italian cookies people pay $$$ in the chi-chi bakeries? Out of her memory she could make a tray that would make any so-called foodie salivate. I never heard her discuss the knife to use, or what brand of pot or the merits of this type of cutting board vs. another one.

She simply cooked. She simply baked. And it was awesome.

The "foodies" who go to Peppercorn and spend $50 for a garlic press will never, ever cook as well as my grandmother with a simple knife, some heat, a trusty pot and a spoon.

In the same way, those who drone on endlessly on why their choice is great and others suck (as opposed to saying why it works for THEIR way of backpacking. Subtle, but important difference), spend more time collecting gear and less time outdoors.

On trips with friends, we don't compare stoves...we hike and enjoy the gorgeous Colorado night ski.

On the thru-hikes, people who are gear centric are mostly ignored.

It is just gear. The least important part of backpacking. Tell us why you use a piece of gear. Why it works for you. But to somehow think a piece of gear is "best" or "better" than another person's choice? Pure gear wankery for gear hobbyists who are online.

shazzam!!

[LIhikers]

Bugs are probably the main reason that I prefer tenting over tarping when backpacking. Especially when the mosquitos are out in full force.

I'll second that!
I can remember this one night in Massachusetts where the skeeters drove about 8 people out of a shelter, one by one.

[Jim Adams]

Hahaha! Well, I do know an awful lot of dumbasses. Comes from being in Billville. But if you're really hungry, I suppose there are worse things to eat . . .

Well said!....my socks taste far worse than my tent does!....just my opinion.

geek

[Jim Adams]

Too many choices to call any single thing correct.

I love tarping...should never get wet if you know what you are doing, have lots of space, can stand up for dressing, having visitors or just to wait out bad weather more comforably, can cook inside, can use DEET the few times that it is needed.

Your HS tarptent will keep you from the bugs until you have to go outside every few hours to adjust it.

Will never stop using my cannister stove because everything else that I've used is a hassle compared to it...light and cook...poof! Simmers, boils, always lighter than any alky stove that I have and no problem finding cannisters. If you use it alot, you know when you will run out of fuel...no need for a second cannister.

Skunks will not spray or bother you if you just let them go their way...they are just nosey and curious.

Careful that you don't step out of your hammock onto that rattle snake passing under you!

Waaayyy too many scenarios!...Use what works for you because you will never change me.

geek

[mkmangold]

And there is no chance that they could have picked up the tick while hiking to where they were setting up camp. Ticks like to drop onto their host so it is more likely that the tick was already there. Most ticks have a hard time getting through the sil-nylon. Not that it couldn't happen but then again I think that there are some people who may have slept in a tent and gotten lymes as well. Has been known to happen.

Naw: it's just that ticks prefer tarps themselves.

[harryfred]

Well said!....my socks taste far worse than my tent does!....just my opinion.

geek

And you know this HOW? Wow talk about hiker hunger!