toxic HEET

[rappglenn]

Ok i already know HEET is toxic but i just read that you should not keep your stove as it can contaiminate it is this true I was under the impression everything burned off does anyone store thier stove in thier pot or do you take special protectitions I dont dont think its that toxic

[beakerman]

HEET is methanol. Methanol evaporates at room temperature and is completely water soluble so even if you did have a wet spill and didn't want to wait the few seconds for it to evaporate you could just give the pot a few quick rinses with water and go with it.

Keep in mind all alcoholic beverages contain trace amounts of methanol so even if you didn't get it all out with the rinses the amount you would consume at that point would be about the same as what you get with a shot of Crown.

[beakerman]

even easier...you could just flame it off...put your bic to it and let it burn off.

[rappglenn]

I dident think is was a problem I just read this warning I figure its just an over reaction I dont think there is any residue left over and as long as no one is droping dead ill roll the dice

[RevLee]

Any stove is going to have some residue you don't want to ingest. That's why I never store my stove in my pot. But other than that, there's nothing significant to worry about.

[BrianLe]

Hmm, the web site that sells my stove/pot combination shows the stove packed inside the pot ...

[JustaTouron]

Any stove is going to have some residue you don't want to ingest. That's why I never store my stove in my pot. But other than that, there's nothing significant to worry about.

Thats my take...

I store my stove in a plastic bag. I store the plastic bag in my cooking pot. Keeps the inside of the pot from getting dirty.

[Dogwood]

I have a similar alchy stove setup that I store inside a Snow Peak Mini Solo as you pictured BrianLe. After researching some BPL links about hazards of fuels commonly used in alchy stoves I'm rethinking how I do things w/ my stove, cookware, and fuel. IMO, and in the opinion of some of who know a lot more about toxic chemicals than me, Heet and some DNAlcohol hazards ARE NOT something to be taken lightly. Heet is definitely not something I want on exposed skin or to be consuming in ANY amounts.

[BrianLe]

Something I'd never thought of before --- in my previous stove setup, I also had the alcohol stove stored in the pot; I think this actually might be pretty common.

I guess an easy fix is to put the stove in a ziplock sandwich bag.

[Snowleopard]

Any stove is going to have some residue you don't want to ingest. That's why I never store my stove in my pot. But other than that, there's nothing significant to worry about.

I hadn't thought of that. It's likely true, with the possible exception of canister stoves (very little residue). Even with wood stoves, you probably don't want to consume the combustion residues in any quantity.

Methanol will evaporate quickly. You want to minimize the amount of vapors you inhale and want to minimize getting it on your skin. Some of the other ingredients in denatured alcohol are nasty.

[JAK]

As I understand it, one treatment for methanol poisoning is to injest ethanol. Apparently the ethanol takes the place of methanol where it would do harm, and the body can deal with the ethanol. For this reason denatured alcohol, ethanol with methanol in it, is still poisonous, but is safer than pure methanol. The other solution, which many abide by, is to drink alot of alcohol while cooking with heet. You know, just in case.

[Jester2000]

They just have those warnings so dumb people don't try to drink it straight from the bottle.

[BrianLe]

Thinking about this a little further, so long as the stove burns itself out (my normal process) the residue has to be pretty minimal, and perhaps sort of "baked on" to the inside of the stove. How much of this, if any, is likely to somehow come off the (inside of the) stove and be left inside my pot when I heat water in it?

It might be interesting to have a pointer to the original referenced warning --- i.e., was it someone just laying awake at night looking for things to worry about, or is there any data or other tangible basis for concern? To be clear, I'm not questioning that HEET or danat. alcohol isn't bad to inject (!), just questioning whether any meaningful amount could get into my cooked food via the process I currently use.

[JustaTouron]

Here is why I use the plastic bag.....

First and foremost my stove sits on the ground....in mouse crap and dirt etc. So when I put the stove in the pot that dirt isn't coming going into the pot but the bag. Yeah, I brush the bottom off first on my dirty pants...but we aren't really talking all that sterile of a cleaning job.

Second, lets say you got gunk built up inside the stove. Then one day you trip and fall. So your stove gets jarred considerably move than normal and dislodges not one days worth of gunk but a months worth. Now you got a months worth of gunk in your pot.

I say either stick the stove in a baggy or rinse the pot before using it each time.

[beakerman]

Ok I will state this as plainly as humanly possible:

First of all I am a CHEMIST not just some schmuck on a backpacking forum so I speak of this from a truly educated point of fact.

Yes ingesting a certain quanity of methanol (primary ingredient in HEET) or even denatured alcohol (which typically refers to ethanol with a small quantity of benzene in it to make sure folks don't drink it) is obvioulsy bad for you..large enough amounts can blind you and even larger amounts can kill you.

Those are the facts.

The quantities involves in say a fuel spill in your pot are only may be 1 or 2 ml wetting the surface (and that's for a large pot) once you dump it out.

Both denatured alcohol and methanol are 100% water soluble so if you just give it a rinse or two then it's effectively gone.

If you want to be harsh about it put a match to it and flame it off or fire up your stove and give it a little heat to evaporate it off.

Either way and you will not have enough of either left on the surface of the pot to make a difference.

As I pointed out before if you drink any alcoholic beverages you are consuming a measurable quantity of methanol...it's a natural fermentation product.

In short DO NOT worry about storing your alky stove in your pot.

I would not advise that for a petroleum based fuel though---that is a different matter.

[take-a-knee]

Dances With Mice is also a chemist, he has posted that he used a spectral gas analyzer to try to detect ANY methanol left on a soda can stove after all the fuel burns off. There was none detectable. I wouldn't worry about the stove. I would not pack my fuel bottle inside the pot, but that is just me.

[JAK]

the solution to polution is dilution

[Snowleopard]

Beakerman is probably right, little danger from storing a stove that burns methanol in your pot. Any spilled will evaporate quickly and as B says can be washed out with water.
BUT, HEET is not pure methanol, it has 1% of 'proprietary additive'; we don't know what that is nor what it's toxicity may be.

Denatured alcohol in the USA will sometimes contains fairly nasty chemicals. The alcohol is fairly safe, but denaturing chemicals may not be.

Methanol is fairly toxic. 10 mL (2 teaspoons) will cause blindness. So, be very careful not to spill any into your food. Store it in a container that no one is likely to mistake for a drink. Storing it in a water bottle is a really bad idea; I've seen 12 oz bottled water bottles described as the ideal container. Even if you know it's not water, another hiker may not. Minimize breathing methanol and avoid getting it on your skin.

Beakerman, I don't think benzene is used to denature alcohol, I haven't seen it in the MSDS for the brands I've checked. Benzene may be a contaminant in denatured alky. Benzine (naptha) may be used to denature alcohol.

[jeremyduncan]

I keep my fuel bottle (recycled 8oz water bottle full of Heet) and my stove in my Heiny can. Guess I better give it a rinse before I boil water ion it, next time, huh?

...or maybe carry the bottle separate.

[rappglenn]

the alcohol will burn off but what about all those additive I mean look what they put in our food and then imagine what they can get away with in a gas additive