Another look at the Hennessey Winter Solution

[MedicineMan]

or as Hennessey calls it the 'SuperShelter'...just returned late tonight post 21 days in Utah,Nevada,and Arizona...19 nights in a Hennessey Lite Racer and ever night with the Winter Solution below.
I think I gave this 'taco' an initial review before we left, now after almost 3 weeks using it nightly I wanted to rave about it.
It is PERFECT in conjunction with the Jacks-r-Better underquilt, better known as The Nest, you can try to make a sil-nyl taco but you will be hard pressed to beat the fit of the SuperShelter, on the really cold nights (we found snow greeting us on our third night camping at 10,300ft in Cedar Breaks Nat. Monument) I augmented The Nest with a down quilt (Nunatak Arc Edge) and slept under the same companies Arc Alpinist (we had wind chills of 9F that night).
The SuperShelter comes with a foam pad- I left it at home but it would have been fun to play with it subbing it out for The Nest or the Edge.
The SuperShelter's entry slit is offset from that of the HH or The Nest which makes it nice for elimating a draft slit and it proved just as adjustable as The Nest when the temps rose (we had daytime temps of 104 in Zion NP and at 1am it was still 82F.....
Any questions on the Winter Solution/SuperShelter fire away.
MM

[squirrel bait]

Whats the cost of a sweet setup like that?

[Dudeboard]

Whats the weight of a sweet setup like that?

[Youngblood]

... It is PERFECT in conjunction with the Jacks-r-Better underquilt, better known as The Nest, you can try to make a sil-nyl taco but you will be hard pressed to beat the fit of the SuperShelter, on the really cold nights (we found snow greeting us on our third night camping at 10,300ft in Cedar Breaks Nat. Monument) I augmented The Nest with a down quilt (Nunatak Arc Edge) and slept under the same companies Arc Alpinist (we had wind chills of 9F that night)....

Any questions on the Winter Solution/SuperShelter fire away.
MM

MM,

What was the temperature without the wind chill? Even without the SuperShelter, sounds like you had quite a bit of insulation in the Nest and the Arc Edge. How much do you think the SuperShelter helped... was it mostly as a wind block or does it add a lot of insulation for conductive heat loss on its own?

Youngblood

[c.coyle]

... or as Hennessey calls it the 'SuperShelter'

... It is PERFECT in conjunction with the Jacks-r-Better underquilt, better known as The Nest

... I augmented The Nest with a down quilt (Nunatak Arc Edge)

... and slept under the same companies Arc Alpinist (we had wind chills of 9F that night).

So there are five components to this setup? (1) Hammock, (2) Super Shelter, (3) Jacks-R-Better underquilt (4) Nunatak Arc Edge down quilt, (5) Nunatak Arc Alpinist Quilt.

Sounds like a lot of stuff, weight, and $$. Or am I confused?

[Magic City]

If one were to begin a northbound AT hike sometime in the end of February, what sort of a sleeping bag would be needed along with a HH with Super Shelter? Could I get by with something lighter than a zero degree bag?

[MedicineMan]

"Whats the cost of a sweet setup like that?"

Cost:
best guesses on these but you can check at each manufacturer's website:
Arc Edge $275
Arc Alpinist $305
Jacks-r-Better Nest $195
HH Lite Racer $ 149
SuperShelter (minus the overshelter which is $29 more) $129
MacCat $80
Kelty Triptease $15
Again please double check the prices, some have gone up, check e-bay for hammocks, and look at Nunatak's close out section for better deals. Know that if you want anything by Nunatak you will wait and wait and wait.


"Whats the weight of a sweet setup like that?"

Youngblood, weights are close to this:
Edge 12oz.
Alpinist 20oz
HH Lite Racer 1lb 5oz (subtrate weight of OEM fly since I subbed out
for the MacCat
MacCat 10-11oz. (cant remember exactly)
SuperShelter 13oz. (according to HH website but subtract the foam pad
that comes with it, I didnt weigh it (can if you want me too) but guess
it is 3oz or less (just 1/4 inch thick)


"What was the temperature without the wind chill? Even without the SuperShelter, sounds like you had quite a bit of insulation in the Nest and the Arc Edge. How much do you think the SuperShelter helped... was it mostly as a wind block or does it add a lot of insulation for conductive heat loss on its own?"

Youngblood,
Temp according to the NPS that night was 26F.....so an emphatic yes to the
windblocking ability of the SuperShelter (or any 'taco' for that matter) but
what sets the SuperShelter apart is the exacting fit out of the box for the HH
model hammocks, also using the SS gave another dead air space....and while
on the North Rim of the GC it ruled in protecting from horizontal rain,
conductive heat loss? probably nill since sil-nyl has approaching zero
insulation on its own.

"So there are five components to this setup? (1) Hammock, (2) Super Shelter, (3) Jacks-R-Better underquilt (4) Nunatak Arc Edge down quilt, (5) Nunatak Arc Alpinist Quilt."

Just add a fly, in my case the MacCat.......I would not carry the Edge and the Alpinist on the same hike, on this trip I was experimenting with different combos....which would be time of year depended/altitude/etc.

"Sounds like a lot of stuff, weight, and $$. Or am I confused?"

Yes a lot of money, La AquaNa commented that I was sleeping in a $1000 setup, didnt add it up but its my hobby/passion/love and I like playing with gear BUT the bottom line is total-complete comfort and with incredible variability...when it warmed up the Edge was on top and the Alpinist packed, in Zion it was just skin for top insulation but still The Nest on bottom fully opened up.

"Sleeping bag needed in Super Shelter"

"If one were to begin a northbound AT hike sometime in the end of February, what sort of a sleeping bag would be needed along with a HH with Super Shelter? Could I get by with something lighter than a zero degree bag?"

Its not so much the top part of the setup you need to worry about BUT the bottom if starting at Springer at that time period....any 20F sleeping bag will work, and though you will compress most of the insulation of the bottom of the sleeping bag it will still give you ,albeit very small, some insulation (thats why I and others have go to overquilts {that also negates having to deal with a zipper in the hammock}, and a synthetic will compress less under you.
Remember the SuperShelter is bonus/insurance--- I believe in it but then again I've hammocked many times without it or a taco....but all it takes is one time where the wind/rain are horizontal and then your underquilt is wet, if you go this route (without taco or super shelter) make damn sure your fly will protect you from blowing rain, splatter rain has never been a problem for me.
Also dont forget that the SuperShelter (with pad provided) is perfect for using with your camp jacket, pack, clothes, leaves, anything that will create dead airspace.
I sleep cold, really cold, bone cold and have to do everything I can to keep warm after a long exhausting hike......

Remember I'm not a proponent of any company, just what works, is light, and warm.

I'm soon to order the overshelter (the $29.95 add-on for the SuperShelter) to play with and will report back when it gets here.

[Youngblood]

MM,

Thanks for the reply. You are right about the wind, it has to be dealt with when the temperatures drop. I'm not sure the wind chill charts adequately represent the problems that wind can cause some insulation schemes for us hammockers-- I know for sure that wind can cause us problems above 40*. (The wind chill charts typically imply that wind is not much of a factor above 35*.) Sounds like you had 26* temps with a 9* wind chill. And, like you mentioned, if you have an underquilt you don't want blowing rain to saturate it.

I tried a different approach last winter. I used pads and a huge tarp that I can basically configure as a hammock tarptent. As you have demonstated, there are a lot of ways to make a hammock work in cold weather... it gets down to tradeoffs. I am always re-evaluating whether the extra weight of the larger tarp is a tradeoff that I like or not. I think it adds about 10 oz (compared to the other rather generously sized tarp I use) when I include velcro to fasten the ends and all the extra stakes required. It does allow for a little calm space to move about in that does warm up a little bit... but it is a bitch setting it up and taking it down in freezing weather when I am tired and/or cold.

Youngblood

[Tramper Al]

Hey,

I am often intrigued when I hear about quilts and the like for keeping warm in winter. I am finding it hard to believe that a mummy bag that can zip up to my chin if necessary isn't a far more efficient (on a weight per warmth basis) device to conserve heat and thus stay warm in winter.

I am a New England winter hiker, and am thinking in terms of those rectangular sleeping bags which are very comfortable, but leak warm air like crazy through the open top. Obviously nobody carries those on the trail in winter.

[Youngblood]

Hey,

I am often intrigued when I hear about quilts and the like for keeping warm in winter. I am finding it hard to believe that a mummy bag that can zip up to my chin if necessary isn't a far more efficient (on a weight per warmth basis) device to conserve heat and thus stay warm in winter.

I am a New England winter hiker, and am thinking in terms of those rectangular sleeping bags which are very comfortable, but leak warm air like crazy through the open top. Obviously nobody carries those on the trail in winter.

You are right about sealing off any air gaps/leaks. But things work a little differently in a hammock and hammockers make adjustments to minimize the difficulties that hammocks present and to take advantage of the things that hammocks cause to work better. I'm not sure the best way to explain it but I'll try.

Your ability to move about and reposition things is limited in a hammock. You are kind of in a bowl and things want to slide to the bottom of the bowl, which is pretty much where your arse is. (The plus side is that once you get situated you don't need to move around as much, if at all, to relieve pressure points.) Getting inside of a sleeping bag is harder in a hammock, one reason is that each time you raise up (like to pull up a zipper on a bag) something wants to slide or roll towards your arse, like your pillow, top part of your sleeping bag and such. Another thing, since the bottom of the hammock tries to engulf your sides, you need wider padding because the pressure from the sides of the hammock will compress the insulation in your sleeping bag. But, with the wider pad, you don't use as much width for the top side insulation. Here is were it gets kind of tricky-- if you zip together the bottom part of your sleeping bag to form a foot pocket you can use your sleeping bag like a blanket and easily just lift your feet and slide the blanket on... and the excess width of the bag now acts like an additional layer of top side insulation.

Now we get to the seal around the neck and keeping the head warm. I use a neck gaitor and tuck the sleeping bag around my shoulders and under my chin to seal off any potential air gaps. I use a fleece hat to keep my head warm. Between a bandana, rolling up the neck gaitor and rolling down the fleece hat I can completely cover my head. While this sounds like a lot of things to do, it really is pretty easy in a hammock. And if that doesn't work, I can always struggle a little and slip inside my sleeping bag and zip it and the hood in place... I'm not really sure that I am warmer in the zipped up sleeping bag in the long term but the energy expended to get in it usually produces a short term warm up.

After I said all that, I realize that it pretty much comes down to this: it is much easier to use a quilt with a foot pocket in a hammock than a mummy sleeping bag because you don't have to fight with gravity as much.

Youngblood

[Tramper Al]

I'm not sure the best way to explain it but I'll try.

Thanks for that reply. I hadn't thought of it as specific to hammock sleeping, but that does help me understand some of the appeal.

I am getting more interested in trying a hammock for canoe camping, where the terrain may be thick or soggy or both. For winter, however, I'll probably stick with the cold cold ground.

[Shredder]

To anyone who has tried both what would you estimate the temp rating for the nest from jacks with the HH shell? I have the jacks three season system and on only a few nights testing give it a 40 degree comfort rating. any colder and you really need a pad or something else IMHO.........Shredder

[MedicineMan]

4 weeks ago at Cedars Breaks Nat. Mon. I used The Nest and the bottom part of the HH SuperShelter at 28F BUT I also had an additional quilt between The Nest and the HH bottom (additional quilt was an Arc Edge)...wind chill that night according to the NPS was 9F...I was very cozy, used only an Arc Alpinist on top (rated to 20F).....
Since we were in a N.M. site selection was negated-we had to camp in designated spots and ours was not wind friendly to a hammocker.

[Shredder]

MedicineMan, thanks for the reply. Would you estimate the HH super shelter shell added something like 10 degrees to your comfort range? Maybe more in wind. I'm trying to estimate what making or buying a shell would add to my system.
Also do you know off hand the thickness of your Arc edge quilt? With the jacksrbetter system in colder weather they use both the nest and no quiveler quilt under for added protection, there both 1 1/2 in down, so together with both on the bottom thats 3 in of down. Is that about what you had on your test?........Shredder

[MedicineMan]

3 inches sounds about right on the thickness of the two...and while that is almost half of what is derived from the use of the Pondersoa/Crazy Creek Crib {would also work equally well with the Speer hammock} I would guess it very effective for almost all hammmockers to 25F....and 3-4oz more in the guise of a thin closed cell foam pad (read pack liner for those using internal frame packs) this Temp could be further pushed down while gaining a sitting/kneeling pad........
there is a pic here at WB of the Edge against a tape measure, from where I am now I cant remember the figure....
10 degrees? or more? depends on personal sensitivity/metabolism but IN strong wind I feel 10 degrees is minimum....
After dealing with all systems I think it remiss to use a hammock without a taco, either homemade or the HH supershelter bottom. For their little added weight the benefits are too numerous to list...currently I'm thinking of a way to use the taco or supershelter as a packcover-surely there are other uses.
The bonus of HH's taco if you will is its quintessential fit and finish.
Just keep in mind with the taco or the SS you can add insulation of any type to the bottom of the HH.

[Boonga]

Has anyone tried the Jungle Hammock? I have used it and a HH, and I like the JH. You can get in from either side and it has pockets that store your gear and help insulate the bottom. Probablly because I have to answer the call of nature at night, I found the JH much easier to get into and out of .

[Youngblood]

Boonga,

I think there are some folks here who use the Clark Hammock and that sounds like what you are calling your Jungle Hammock. Clark has three models listed on his web site, the one with the pockets for insulation used to be called the Deluxe but I think it is now called the North American.

My guess would be that most hammockers on this site use one of the Hennessy models. Second would be Speer class hammocks and I use that description because a lot of them are homemade hammocks with minor/major changes to some features. Third would be the Clark hammocks.

Where do you do most of your hammocking? Oh yeah, welcome to WhiteBlaze.

Youngblood

[Kerosene]

Hikerhead is a big advocate of the Clark hammock also. He's used it down into the 20's, but then again, he'll sleep through anything.

[Hikerhead]

I have to hammock so everyone in the shelter can sleep. The Clark does a good job in the winter. Buy one of those el cheapo open cell foam pads at wallmart, the ones that roll up big but weigh nothing, and you're all set.

[Shredder]

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...results1.jhtml


I hope this link works, it's gigantic. Anyway has anyone seen or tried this hammock out? Shredder