Am I Wrong?

[SouthMark]

I am to deliver my 21 yo grandson and friend to Springer Monday morning for their attempted thru. Besides being under funded I think they are not equipped or prepared for the weather conditions. Grandson has a Travel Hammock, JRB 10x11 cat tarp, thermarest 3/4 pad and MH Phantom 15 bag. Friend has tent, blue foam pad and about 35-40 down bag. I have offered help with gear but grandson doesn't want it. He knows pretty much eveything about everything. His experience is limited to about 38 miles on AT in May 4 years ago and a few overnighters locally. Are they in for serious trouble or am I wrong?

[sidebackside]

You may be right. But as we all know, experience comes from trial & error.

[Morning Glory]

I am to deliver my 21 yo grandson and friend to Springer Monday morning for their attempted thru. Besides being under funded I think they are not equipped or prepared for the weather conditions. Grandson has a Travel Hammock, JRB 10x11 cat tarp, thermarest 3/4 pad and MH Phantom 15 bag. Friend has tent, blue foam pad and about 35-40 down bag. I have offered help with gear but grandson doesn't want it. He knows pretty much eveything about everything. His experience is limited to about 38 miles on AT in May 4 years ago and a few overnighters locally. Are they in for serious trouble or am I wrong?

I wouldn't say serious trouble...just some misery. You may want to be waiting for them at Woody Gap on Wednesday or Thursday.

[SGT Rock]

They will be fine and will figure it out. Make sure they have your number in case they want to bail. Otherwise it could be a great adventure for them.

[max patch]

The one with the 35-40 degree bag isn't going to be "fine." He's going to freeze his azz off. Seriously.

[SouthMark]

Thanks guys. Makes me feel a little better.

[ARambler]

If the average hiker has a 75 % chance of not finishing, maybe your grandson has an 80 % chance of not finishing, which is no reason to be pessimistic. The odds are highly dependent on the group dynamics, and whether they both drop out when something bad happens to one.

I started with a 30 degree bag and lots of extra clothes. I now use a 20 degree bag, but the 35 degree bag can work. The early start on a limited budget shows poor planning, so they will have to get smarter, quickly.

Have you checked on the conditions of the forest service road, or does everyone in AL drive a pickup?
Rambler

[Mrs Baggins]

The one with the 35-40 degree bag isn't going to be "fine." He's going to freeze his azz off. Seriously.

That was my first reaction, too. I have a 20 degree down bag and we had to bail at Gooch Gap when the air temp hit 20 degrees and there was wind and sleet. That might not bother some people but I couldn't stop shivering. Went back with a silk bag liner, thermarest Z pad, and better clothing. Live and learn.

[bigcranky]

Sure, they will be cold and probably miserable at night right now. Probably not life threatening. If they can make it 30 miles to Neels Gap, they can figure out what to do about it.

[SGT Rock]

Sure, they will be cold and probably miserable at night right now. Probably not life threatening. If they can make it 30 miles to Neels Gap, they can figure out what to do about it.

That is what I was thinking. He will be fine. Uncomfortable, but fine. I've done that sort of weather in Germany with nothing more than a poncho liner.

[buff_jeff]

I highly doubt they're in any serious danger, but they might spend a few uncomfortable nights out. Even this early, there should be a good bit of people down there and they'll hit at least one paved road a day, for the most part.

As others have said, trial and error is really the best way to learn. My first winter hike I had no sleeping pad and I wore all cotton clothing. It snowed during the day and the trail was a block of ice for miles so I was falling over the place, soaking my clothes. My pants froze overnight, my water froze because I didn't put any in the bag with me, and even my socks froze. I also didn't pack enough food, or at least food that I could enjoy. It was miserable. My bag is rated to 20 degrees and it was probably down to 10-15 degrees or even lower.

[fiddlehead]

Reminds of my first thru-hike starting out.
I don't see the problem.

I didn't make it that year but it wasn't because of my gear (although i didn't have much), It was because i was underfunded.

If you're so worried about him, send him some goodies once in a while.

[Lyle]

My only advice is to give them your number, and if they call and want some advice, pleasantly give it and refrain from either saying or implying "I told you so". They will already know that.

They will be ok. As others have said, you Grandson will be better off with his 15* bag, as long as he understands how much warmer he will be on the ground instead of in the hammock. His buddy may actually suffer a bit, but if they work together and share what insulation they have, they will be fine.

[Lone Wolf]

neel gap will be glad to take their cash

[Doctari]

They will be ok. As others have said, you Grandson will be better off with his 15* bag, as long as he understands how much warmer he will be on the ground instead of in the hammock. His buddy may actually suffer a bit, but if they work together and share what insulation they have, they will be fine.

Yea, I can only get to 15 degrees in my hammock with a similar set up, as opposed to 15 degrees on the ground. OH, it's the same, never-mind!

Conventional wisdom says:
You can NOT winter camp in a hammock! With JUST my summer set up I routinely get to temps in the low 20s.
You can NOT use an alcohol stove below freezing! So, is 6f Below freezing? If so, I often cook with my alcohol stove at that temp.


I think both will survive, & as stated they only need to make it the first 30 miles & can upgrade if need be. The friend's gear is much like what I started my first section hike at the same time of year & I not only survived, I had a great time. If worried / as back up, get them a few chemical hand warmers (1 pair a night each for lets say 4 nights) They can take the edge off if too cold at night. They do not HAVE to be just for the hands.
Also, if he isn't already aware: direct Grandson to Hammock forums for a few tips

[SouthMark]

Thanks. I guess I'm over reacting based on my 62 yo warmth needs. I can take my hammock gear into the teens with Go Lite Ultra 20 bag, under quilt and wearing most of my clothes and down jacket. It's hard to identify with the younger crowd now that my doc says with a 43 heart rate and the meds I take it's hard for me to get warm. Once again thanks for the help.

[JustaTouron]

Thanks. I guess I'm over reacting based on my 62 yo warmth needs.

There is a reason why half the people in Miami are over 60 and speak with a Northern accent.

Still, they might be more willing to take your help after three nights in the woods.

[Mrs Baggins]

neel gap will be glad to take their cash

And I was positively jubilant to give it them!

[SGT Rock]

There is a reason why half the people in Miami are over 60 and speak with a Northern accent.

Still, they might be more willing to take your help after three nights in the woods.

Probably so. Maybe you should camp out around Neels Gap and wait for them.

[JustaTouron]

Probably so. Maybe you should camp out around Neels Gap and wait for them.

If "help" is cash, he doesn't have to hang around. Even if it is loaning gear he might not have to. Just have it ready to be mailed when they call and they can take a couple of zeros.