Advice re: shelter etiquette

[JustaTouron]

BTW, I'm not knocking any thru hiker's competence of setting up and deploying a kick butt light weight shelter system.

To me, it's a matter of respect to someone who trying to conquer a fair difficult task. That's all I'm saying.

I seems to me it would be a lot harder to hike the trail in one week segments with each trip you needing to get back into hiking shape than to do it in one shot.

[Appalachian Tater]

scottdennis, if anything I would expect a thru-hiker to be prepared enough to yield a place to an unprepared section hiker who showed up hypothermic with no dry clothes and a K-mart tent in driving rain. Barring a true medical emergency situation like that or something out of their control like their whole pack fell over the cliff into the river and went downstream, if they show up and there's no room in the shelter and they don't want to sleep in their tent or under the shelter or in the outhouse or on the ground next to the fire they can just keep right on walking until they get to the next place to hitch a ride into town, doesn't matter who they are. It truly is first come, first served except for the few instances where the shelters require a reservation like in the Smokies.

If anyone showed up looking all happy and asked I would just say, sorry, I was here first. If they then asked to borrow a tent I would probably ask them what happened to their shelter and if they didn't have one out of choice I wouldn't lend them one. Some people are too stupid or too rude and need to learn lessons the hard way.

[scottdennis]

I seems to me it would be a lot harder to hike the trail in one week segments with each trip you needing to get back into hiking shape than to do it in one shot.

Absolutely! But I would be willing to be that many of you sectional hikers are like me and don't just hike the AT. I'm fortunate to have a lot of trails within an hours drive, but the AT is a little further for me. So I spend more time doing "local" hikes.

Plus I bet quite a few people do a little more cross training than I would care to, but know I should.

But I'm lucky to have hills. People from Florida wouldn't be able to get a lot of hill work in in between sessions, so I'll certainly concede your point.

[Bobbo]

There are no rules
Try enforcing any of these rules that people have listed - it will only create problems.
There are ignorant people everywhere.

If you don't like snoring - don't stay in a shelter
If you are a light sleeper - don't stay in a shelter
First come first serve regrdless if you are out for a day or a month
Thru hikers in Georgia are not a group - mostly everyone is operating independently and doesn't even no one another.

If you stay in a shelter - treat others the way you would like to be treated

easiest solution to all of this is to stay in a tent - much more comfortable, quiet and private.

Shelters should be used in emergencies and that's about it.

[Cookerhiker]

There are no rules....


Shelters should be used in emergencies and that's about it.

But that's not a rule

[JustaTouron]

scottdennis, if anything I would expect a thru-hiker to be prepared enough to yield a place to an unprepared section hiker who showed up hypothermic with no dry clothes and a K-mart tent in driving rain. Barring a true medical emergency situation like that or something out of their control like their whole pack fell over the cliff into the river and went downstream,.

I would hope any hiker would come to the aid of someone who showed up hypothermic regardless of what type of hikers the two parties are.

[stranger]

In 2008 I ran across two seperate thru-hikers who didn't carry a shelter by choice, saying they would hike to the next one if the shelter was full...sure buddy.

What would happen in practice was when they would arrive at a full shelter, or hostel, they would announce that they had no personal shelter and kinda stand there looking frazzled. Inevitably people would make room for them, and then someone would eventually "choose" to set up their tent because the shelter was too full.

[harryfred]

I think Appalachian Tater and Jack gave a very good list, an LW is always good at stating the obvious. I just want to chime in here with a couple of thoughts.

I always carry a tent which I can and will put up. I stay at shelters because I do like to socialize. I stay in shelters because it is convenient. I usually don't unpack my gear and set up till almost dark. that way if the situation warrants I can just pick up and move on. Once I set up I'm staying.

I have a lot of years sleeping in communal situations and it is my observation that very, very, few people sleep silently. They either snore, mumble, thrash around etc. If you are truly that light a sleeper YOU pitch a tent. The rest of us will just laugh at each other in the morning. I have met a few hikers that complain about snorers and I know they them selves snore.

If you are like me and know you are going to get up in the middle of the night to pee; go away from the shelter and the traffic areas, I usually pick my spot before I turn in. I do not have a problem with peeing on the hot embers of a fire.

My pet peeve PUT YOUR FIRE OUT before you leave camp that means cold stirred ashes.

Situations dictate the response. If it is windy and rainy we will all be cooking in the shelter. If you have a white gas stove I will keep a close eye on you. Extreme cold and wind and there is room of course put you tent up in the shelter. every bit of warmth helps. Late arrival and you look beat up I will move or help you set up your tent. I will and have even cooked out of my own food bag for some. Really bad weather and you are a late arrival we will find room even if that means I sleep sitting up.

We take care of each other out there. I don't suffer a$$holes; but some times a hiker just has a bad day and I can help. To quote Red Green "We all in this together and I'm Pullinforya".

-OvertheEdge-

[Bobbo]

But that's not a rule

Ha.....should have prefaced the whole thing with "In my opinion" because that is all it is. My own guidelines for myself you might say.
When I thru hiked the AT, there were times I stayed in shelters, but I learned that I pretty much hated the experience. I never get a good night sleep. The closest I've come to staying in a shelter in the last 6 years was sleeping on the floor of the Lake of The Clouds Hut. Did a work for stay. It was free and dry - other then that it sucked. Mice running around, people staying up wicked late and of course, people getting up really early. Didn't say a word to anybody or present with an attitude because - you get what you pay for!

The thing is - there are tons of people that absolutely love staying in shelters and wouldn't have it any other way. That's great for them.

[Tinker]

If snoring bothers you, be realistic and sleep outside.

You apparantly don't know what motivates me.
I snore, and, I usually sleep outside. I've slept in shelters twice in the past five years.

[Wise Old Owl]

1. First come, first served.
2. First one there sweeps out the shelter if there is a broom and it's dirty.
3. Don't take up more than your share of space. Share hooks and hangers.
4. Don't step on other people or their stuff.
5. Don't stay up late and don't shine your light in people's faces after dark.
6. If you wake up before everyone else at least pretend like you're trying not to make a lot of noise.
7. Don't play musical instruments, use loudspeakers or talk on your cell phone in the shelter.
8. Don't cook in the shelter.
9. Bring ear plugs.
10. Large groups aren't supposed to use shelters.
11. Be prepared with your own tent or other shelter if the shelter is full.
12. Clean up after yourself. Don't leave garbage in the fire pit.
13. No dogs in the shelter unless everyone is okay with it.
14. Don't smoke in the shelter. Don't even ask other people if its okay unless you already know them and know they don't care.
15. If someone announces they're changing clothes, look the other way.

Basic manners and thoughtfulness go a long way to making everyone's stay pleasant. After staying in a shelter with rude people and polite people you'll notice what a huge difference it makes when everyone is thoughtful.

Wow, OK you have really got this down. Are you the Emily Post of shelters? perhaps you should post a book and I mean that sincerely...

[Bulldawg]

I see people doing this all the time. Doesn't bother me. Shelters often have places specifically for this. It's one of the few things I like to do at shelters.

Exactly what I do.

Well, using this logic, the Thru hiker will have an easier day, since they have their trail legs and will be in better shape. One of the difficulties with section hiking is that you are always starting over.

Shelters are first come first served. No one should feel obligated to give up space to a "Thru Hiker". Their heads get big enough as it is.

Well said.

All these "rules" is why it is far easier to just tent it. No muss, no fuss.

When I first started backpacking, it never occurred to me to sleep in a lean-to.

I will sleep in a shelter if I pretty much have it to myself or with one or two others..esp on a rainy night.

Overall, though, it is far easier and more comfortable to just pitch a tent..even when it is rainy and cold out. Shelters tend to get crowded on a rainy night making it hard to sleep (at least for me).

I recognize the social aspects of the shelter areas. I'd often cook dinner, talk and then tent out on my own.

Not trying to start an anti-shelter rant...just saying why it can often be easier to not to use one. YMMV.

Exactly, its a social aspect for me, only.

A few quick thoughts:

1. It's totally uncool to "hold" spaces for your friends who aren't there yet.

Really Jack, I heard a story from a hiker in 2009 who you allegedly berated in Georgia for having set his tent up "in your spot". Maybe he was lying?

[TD55]

Other than first come first serve, I always thought that almost all shelters were rule free zones. However, I admit to being etiquette challenged.

[Wise Old Owl]

Other than first come first serve, I always thought that almost all shelters were rule free zones. However, I admit to being etiquette challenged.

Yea so am I, the poster boy of etiquette challenged.

just saying not one of my strengths,

[maddawgg]

"Holy sardine can, Batman!" If shelters are as crowded as most of the posts here indicate, I would rather sleep under a rock! I am claustrophobic to the point of a mummy sleeping bag being out of the question. In 2011 you can find me anywhere but a shelter.

[Tinker]

"Holy sardine can, Batman!" If shelters are as crowded as most of the posts here indicate, I would rather sleep under a rock! I am claustrophobic to the point of a mummy sleeping bag being out of the question. In 2011 you can find me anywhere but a shelter.

There you go!

[white_russian]

"Holy sardine can, Batman!" If shelters are as crowded as most of the posts here indicate, I would rather sleep under a rock! I am claustrophobic to the point of a mummy sleeping bag being out of the question. In 2011 you can find me anywhere but a shelter.

internets != real life

[Wise Old Owl]

I reread the thread wow Harryfred you rock!

[Panzer1]

Given that there are no rules in shelters, its amazing that the system seems to work just fine most of the time.

Panzer

[sasquatch2014]

I would hope any hiker would come to the aid of someone who showed up hypothermic regardless of what type of hikers the two parties are.

I would help so that they get better and have their wits about them. when you are truly that hypothermic you won't remember a lot of things and I want you to remember the beat down and mocking you should get for not being able to keep an eye on one of the most basic of safety issues for back country travel.

And you better have your own shelter because after the public humiliation you are banished from the shelter for the night. No one shall speak your name you are officially shunned.