The Great smoky mountains

[ike1985]

Hey everybody, i know this is whiteblaze and mainly centered on the AT, but i needed some advice as most of the members here tend to be on my side of the country (SE) as opposed to bpl (west).

I am going to the smokies for 3 nights 4 days in july. Some of my questions:
I am planning a 40-50 mile loop.
I've already got my gear figured out, hiking is not new to me.

How populated will the trails be?

*We will both be using hammock/tarp setups and i am confused about the shelter situation. Will we be allowed to stealth camp, or if we must camp at designated sites, will we be allowed to stray a bit from the site for privacy but stay within way an 1/8th mile?

Are bear canisters/spray needed? I am leaning toward spray only.

How would you rate the difficulty of the trails?

Can you recommend routes?



Any advice you can give me, or things to know would be great as this is my first time in the smokies! thanks everybody

[ike1985]

Also what about fire reguations (only at campsites?, etc)

Do temps in july ever get low in the smokeys?

[Ox97GaMe]

It will depend on when in July and what trails you choose. The park has an annual phenomenon called 'Syncronized Fireflies'. During a 2-3 week period, it is difficult to get into areas around Tremont and Elkmont. This is a cool thing to see if you get a chance. There are only 2 places in the world where this supposedly happens. SMNP and someplace in China.

If you want to be hanging the hammock every night, then definitely stay away from the shelters along. There are only a couple of shelters that get enough usage during the summer to allow for overflow camping. Backcountry campsites will be your best bet. Again, there wont be many folks out at most of the campsites on any given night, so finding a bit of privacy wont be that big of an issue. Camping even 1/8 mile from designated campsites is seen by park service as 'stealth' camping and may lead to fines if caught.

You wont need bear canisters or bear spray. Every campsite and shelter in the park has bear cables installed now. Bears in the park are not generally agressive toward humans, unless provoked in some manner. If you see a bear, just stay calm and look around for potential cubs. If you find yourself between a mother bear and her cubs, slowly move to get out of the way. General rule with bears in the park is just not to do anything stupid (like feeding or charging at a bear) and you will be fine.

Generally, if you wave your hiking sticks around and make yourself appear to be large, then the bear will wander off into the woods. If it doesnt, then just pick up a couple small stones and throw at the bear. Many of the shelters will actually have small piles of stones stacked inside for just this purpose.

[ike1985]

It will depend on when in July and what trails you choose. The park has an annual phenomenon called 'Syncronized Fireflies'. During a 2-3 week period, it is difficult to get into areas around Tremont and Elkmont. This is a cool thing to see if you get a chance. There are only 2 places in the world where this supposedly happens. SMNP and someplace in China.

If you want to be hanging the hammock every night, then definitely stay away from the shelters along. There are only a couple of shelters that get enough usage during the summer to allow for overflow camping. Backcountry campsites will be your best bet. Again, there wont be many folks out at most of the campsites on any given night, so finding a bit of privacy wont be that big of an issue. Camping even 1/8 mile from designated campsites is seen by park service as 'stealth' camping and may lead to fines if caught.

You wont need bear canisters or bear spray. Every campsite and shelter in the park has bear cables installed now. Bears in the park are not generally agressive toward humans, unless provoked in some manner. If you see a bear, just stay calm and look around for potential cubs. If you find yourself between a mother bear and her cubs, slowly move to get out of the way. General rule with bears in the park is just not to do anything stupid (like feeding or charging at a bear) and you will be fine.

Generally, if you wave your hiking sticks around and make yourself appear to be large, then the bear will wander off into the woods. If it doesnt, then just pick up a couple small stones and throw at the bear. Many of the shelters will actually have small piles of stones stacked inside for just this purpose.

We're on a budget and i shredded my driducks at BSF, we also need to buy other gear. Some of the stuff i need to get: gps, 2x packas, waterproof mittens, balaclava, small knife, etc. So i nixed the hiking sticks, i don't see them as necessary, have never used any and never saw a need for any. But i know the smokies has a great deal of elevation change often, we should be able to get buy without them. One more purchase i don't have to make.

[ike1985]

It will depend on when in July and what trails you choose. The park has an annual phenomenon called 'Syncronized Fireflies'. During a 2-3 week period, it is difficult to get into areas around Tremont and Elkmont. This is a cool thing to see if you get a chance. There are only 2 places in the world where this supposedly happens. SMNP and someplace in China.

If you want to be hanging the hammock every night, then definitely stay away from the shelters along. There are only a couple of shelters that get enough usage during the summer to allow for overflow camping. Backcountry campsites will be your best bet. Again, there wont be many folks out at most of the campsites on any given night, so finding a bit of privacy wont be that big of an issue. Camping even 1/8 mile from designated campsites is seen by park service as 'stealth' camping and may lead to fines if caught.

You wont need bear canisters or bear spray. Every campsite and shelter in the park has bear cables installed now. Bears in the park are not generally agressive toward humans, unless provoked in some manner. If you see a bear, just stay calm and look around for potential cubs. If you find yourself between a mother bear and her cubs, slowly move to get out of the way. General rule with bears in the park is just not to do anything stupid (like feeding or charging at a bear) and you will be fine.

Generally, if you wave your hiking sticks around and make yourself appear to be large, then the bear will wander off into the woods. If it doesnt, then just pick up a couple small stones and throw at the bear. Many of the shelters will actually have small piles of stones stacked inside for just this purpose.

When moving out of the way, i assume it's best to move sideways instead of backwards as you could trigger the prey instinct? What if we are staring at a bear and hes staring at us, best to stand still continue the staredown and make noise? When i was in bsf i carried a thick stick that i picked up on the trail i would bang it on trees as i walked to warn bears i was coming. Would you suggest a similar tactic?

So your making a distinctionb etween the backcountry campsites vs shelters. Im assuming from your post that the backcountry campsites will be pretty much empty, and the shelters full. Why all the fuss about camping off site? Does we need to reserve backcountry campsites once we figure out our trails?

[Blissful]

Why all the fuss about camping off site? Does we need to reserve backcountry campsites once we figure out our trails?

You need to check the regs concerning backcountry camping on the GSMNP web site.

Also that time of year, some shelters / sites do close b/c of bear activity. You will need to check that later in the season.

[Cookerhiker]

I noticed you posted your thread in the "General" category. Perhaps you're unaware that there's an entire sub-forum devoted to the Smokies - http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=82 where you'll find info ad nauseum. In particular, check out this thread: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=55223 and this one http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=55263 for info about camping rules and restrictions.

[ike1985]

Yea i was unaware, thanks alot cookerhiker!

[Siestita]

Ike1985 -- It good to see a fellow Kentuckian heading out to the trail! You've posted here before about planning a future thru hike, and about gear and clothing questions. I sense though that while you have undoubtedly "hiked a lot", you may not have yet gotten your gear fully "figured out". For some of us that is an ongoing process that takes decades to get half-way right.

"we also need to buy other gear. Some of the stuff i need to get: gps, 2x packas, waterproof mittens, balaclava, small knife, etc."

Contrary to advertising hype, you do not need to lug around a GPS to safely hike the trails of the Smokies,or of most other places in the continental USA. I get by in the Smokies quite well carrying the simple $1 map sold by the Park Service, showing all of the maintained trails, roads, shelters, campsites, and streams. I also find a small, simple compass to be useful occasionally. (From which direction did I walk in on this trail, before dozing off during a trail break?)

While potentially helpful at other times of year, a balacava and mittens are not needed to hike anywhere in the Southern Appalachians in July.

Route Planning -- I have generally found the trails of GSMNP to be better maintained, and also better marked, than those of the Big South Fork (BSF) where you have previously hiked. However, there is much more elevation change on most Smokies trails. If 12 miles per day is comfortable for you to backpack in BSF, consider covering fewer miles in the Smokeys, perhaps about eight daily.

Creeks or Views? As others have pointed out, to use hammocks in GSMNP you will need to stay at permitted campsites, not at AT shelters. Most of those designated campsites are located down low in stream corridors. Those streamside trails are, in their own way, wonderful even without offering soaring, open views.

To get the views it is necessary to hike along the AT and/or other ridge trails. Those areas are served mostly by shelters rather than campsites. Two exceptions to this tendency are the campsite located up at Mount Sterling and the one near Gregory Bald.

If you want to have open views, permit-free camping, freedom to hammock almost anywhere you like, and much less likelhood of encounting bears, consider skipping the Smokies this time, and instead hiking the high country of Grayson Highlands State Park/Mount Rogers National Recreation area in southwestern Virginia. It rains less often there (producing less dense forests), but the elevations are comparable to those of the Smokies, as are driving times from central Kentucky.

Happy Trails!

[ike1985]

Ike1985 -- It good to see a fellow Kentuckian heading out to the trail! You've posted here before about planning a future thru hike, and about gear and clothing questions. I sense though that while you have undoubtedly "hiked a lot", you may not have yet gotten your gear fully "figured out". For some of us that is an ongoing process that takes decades to get half-way right.

"we also need to buy other gear. Some of the stuff i need to get: gps, 2x packas, waterproof mittens, balaclava, small knife, etc."

Contrary to advertising hype, you do not need to lug around a GPS to safely hike the trails of the Smokies,or of most other places in the continental USA. I get by in the Smokies quite well carrying the simple $1 map sold by the Park Service, showing all of the maintained trails, roads, shelters, campsites, and streams. I also find a small, simple compass to be useful occasionally. (From which direction did I walk in on this trail, before dozing off during a trail break?)

While potentially helpful at other times of year, a balacava and mittens are not needed to hike anywhere in the Southern Appalachians in July.

Route Planning -- I have generally found the trails of GSMNP to be better maintained, and also better marked, than those of the Big South Fork (BSF) where you have previously hiked. However, there is much more elevation change on most Smokies trails. If 12 miles per day is comfortable for you to backpack in BSF, consider covering fewer miles in the Smokeys, perhaps about eight daily.

Creeks or Views? As others have pointed out, to use hammocks in GSMNP you will need to stay at permitted campsites, not at AT shelters. Most of those designated campsites are located down low in stream corridors. Those streamside trails are, in their own way, wonderful even without offering soaring, open views.

To get the views it is necessary to hike along the AT and/or other ridge trails. Those areas are served mostly by shelters rather than campsites. Two exceptions to this tendency are the campsite located up at Mount Sterling and the one near Gregory Bald.

If you want to have open views, permit-free camping, freedom to hammock almost anywhere you like, and much less likelhood of encounting bears, consider skipping the Smokies this time, and instead hiking the high country of Grayson Highlands State Park/Mount Rogers National Recreation area in southwestern Virginia. It rains less often there (producing less dense forests), but the elevations are comparable to those of the Smokies, as are driving times from central Kentucky.

Happy Trails!

I know i dont need a gps, i have never used one at all up to this point in my hiking adventures, but i want to get aquainted to the technology it is fascinating to me.

I didn't think the balaclava/mittens would be needed either, but with elevation comes weather and i've never been to the smokies so thats why i asked. Best to approach things from the perspective of an idiot, that way people are willing to give you answers.

Wow thanks for all the info, i will consider the grayson highlands as well! Thanks for the info about the low elevation sites, much appreciated.

[ike1985]

I would like a balance of creeks and views, ideally hitting peaks early in the day, walking down to campsites and arriving before dusk. High mileage should not be a problem as our packs should be less than 25lbs at the begining, and probably closer to 20 for most of the trip.

[Egads]

Hike up the Forney Creek tr to the AT, down the Eagle Creek tr, back to your car on the Lakeshore tr

[TIDE-HSV]

In July, lightweight glove liners and a very lightweight beano hat is all you need for warmth...

[Siestita]

"I would like a balance of creeks and views, ideally hitting peaks early in the day, walking down to campsites and arriving before dusk."

The Smokies' terrain discourages many people from making the type of trip you which have in mind. Arguably, the Park's permitting policies exacerbate this condition by restricting where you may camp.

Even those who remain on a ridge route, such as the AT, staying in shelters, ascend and descend a great deal. Similarly, some of the creek trails themselves include challenging ups and downs. Extensive effort, disproportionate to map mileage, is typically required ascend from creeks to ridge tops.

So, if you want to increase your odds of seeing views, which are obscured by fog at times in any case, consider either:

(1) Doing your hammock camping along creeks, but allowing some "before and after" backpacking time to see views and day hike along ridges. Newfound Gap and Clingman's Dome are popular, vehicle accessible spots for this. OR

(2) Spending one or more nights in a ridge trail shelter.

Here is an attractive three night loop which takes the later approach:

Leave vehicle at Big Creek Ranger Station, near Davenport Gap.
Night one -- Campsite #38, Mount Sterling
Night two -- Laurel Gap Shelter (Lightly used because not on AT)
Night three -- Campsite #29, Otter Creek

Your mileage for the first day would "only" be about 6 miles, but ascending 3,000 vertical feet, presumably in the afternoon following your drive south from Kentucky. Days three and four found be more challenging. This northern most corner of the park receives fewer visitors than do some other places. Even there, usage is concentrated on the AT corridor, and in the AT shelters.

[TIDE-HSV]

Mt. Sterling is one of the 2 or 3 most popular sites in the park (Walnut Bottoms, down below it is in that group also). Unfortunately, both those sites are frequently closed for bear problems. If you go to Mt. Sterling, there are ways to manipulate your itinerary to make sure you get a reservation. PM me, if you want...

[SMSP]

I would suggest that you spend some time on the National Parks website for GSMNP at http://www.nps.gov/grsm/index.htm. It has a wealth of information and would answer a lot of your questions. Be very knowledgable of their reservation process.

Hiking Poles: You say you see no need for them, you've never used them therefore you see no need for them. Hiking poles are for some and not for others. But I would suggest you at least try them in order to properly determine if you do not need them. I was skeptical about the benefits of hiking poles until I 'tried' them out.

How bout posting a post-trip report afterwards to let everyone learn from another GSM experience.

Hike On,

SMSP

[ike1985]

I would suggest that you spend some time on the National Parks website for GSMNP at http://www.nps.gov/grsm/index.htm. It has a wealth of information and would answer a lot of your questions. Be very knowledgable of their reservation process.

Hiking Poles: You say you see no need for them, you've never used them therefore you see no need for them. Hiking poles are for some and not for others. But I would suggest you at least try them in order to properly determine if you do not need them. I was skeptical about the benefits of hiking poles until I 'tried' them out.

How bout posting a post-trip report afterwards to let everyone learn from another GSM experience.

Hike On,

SMSP

Of course, trip report will be posted. =P

[ike1985]

@siestita
So you guys are saying with 4 days(i can do more if i like) its not likely to get both low elevation creeks/etc and ridges/peaks, its one of the other?

In regards to number two, i would have no problem staying in ridge shelters. But i have to ask, are their trees around them? within a few hundred feet or so, i think if we could sleep in our hammocks next to them that would be better. Are there no backcountry camping sites near ridges?

[ike1985]

July mt leconte freezing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGmQ2PgwImY

[TIDE-HSV]

@siestita
So you guys are saying with 4 days(i can do more if i like) its not likely to get both low elevation creeks/etc and ridges/peaks, its one of the other?

In regards to number two, i would have no problem staying in ridge shelters. But i have to ask, are their trees around them? within a few hundred feet or so, i think if we could sleep in our hammocks next to them that would be better. Are there no backcountry camping sites near ridges?

There are backcountry campsites along ridges, but none along the main ridge, where the AT runs. Some of them have been mentioned. Laurel Gap is a shelter which is not on the AT. From your questions, I'm assuming you haven't visited the available NPS sites. I'd go and examine them and then come back with more ???