Interested in assisting in design of Lean-to style shelter?

[ArchStudent]

Hello everyone, I am a 26 year old Architecture student from Syracuse, NY. I was hoping some of you might be interested in helping out with an interesting design problem I have been given. The project is to design an open-air, lean-to style shelter for the Appalachian Trail. As I am not an avid hiker, I can only design this structure based on internet research and photos. But I thought it might be a good idea to ask those of you who do hike a few questions. Keeping in mind that the shelter can not have any operable windows, doors, plumbing, electrical, etc.:

- What features about the current shelters on the trail do you like/love?
- What features about the current shelters would you change?
- What, if any, features would you like to see, that have never been incorporated in a shelter before?
- Would you like to see a shelter that blends in with it's surroundings, or stands out like a desert oasis?
- Which shelter locations do you prefer? (hilltop view, near a stream, in the flat lands...)
And any other questions you deem fit to be answered would be greatly appreciated. Answering these few simple questions will greatly help my research progress, and also give you an opportunity to aid in the design of a shelter that may someday be built! As the project and design progress, I will post images of the design so you can see what your input helped to design. I thank you very much for your time. Happy Hiking!

[Two Tents]

Hi! Welcome To WB. I like a shelter to be knee high so you can sit down comfortably. Places to hang stuff along the sides maybe a shelf across the back wall. I don't know how much you could change and still have an open air lean-to type shelter. Blend it in and have it a few hundred feet from a water source. Hope this helps you.

[Kerosene]

Neat project, although you'll find that a lot of AT hikers would rather not have dedicated shelters at all, at least for sleeping. Personally, I'd love to see simple sheltered eating "pavillions" instead of shelters.

To address your questions, based on an open shelter design:



What features about the current shelters on the trail do you like/love?

• I've always liked a large sleeping loft, especially if there was an opportunity to sufficiently ventilate on hot, humid nights.
• Having enough room to spread out your gear.
• A sheltered seating/cooking area, although in bear country it may be better to not have this right in front of the sleeping area.
• A lot of pegs to hang wet gear to dry, placed so any drips don't get someone wet.
• A bear box, or perhaps bear cables, for food bags.

What features about the current shelters would you change?

• Frequently the ladders up to lofts are cumbersome to navigate, especially in the dead of night when you really have to go but don't want to fall on another occupant.
• Avoid tin roofs, which get really noisy in a rainstorm.
• Eliminate the possibility for the inevitable carved or painted grafitti.

What, if any, features would you like to see, that have never been incorporated in a shelter before?

• Eliminate rafters and fully enclose the flooring such that any rodents have to stay on the floor. In fact, might there be a way to make the walls and entry points out of a slippery material such that rodents couldn't even get in???
• Wind tends to be a problem with most 3-sided shelters. While most shelters are oriented to deflect wind from the prevailing direction, the wind can come up through the floorboards, through chinks in the walls, or even through the front entrance during an unusual storm. How about a shelter design that effectively sheds wind currents, or even rotates when desired?!
• How about a very sturdy but flexible floor (or individual "bunks) that gives under weight, kind of like the decks of modern treadmills that place less stress on the knee joints of runners?
• Really blue-sky, and it probably violates your design constraints, but installing a little "mini-dryer" that could be powered by a butane canister that was just large enough to fit a few pairs of socks. Of course, ruggedizing that appliance could be a bit difficult.

Would you like to see a shelter that blends in with it's surroundings, or stands out like a desert oasis?

• Definitely needs to blend in as much as possible. Although it may be more difficult for east coast mountains, building into the side of a hill might even be a possibility, which might help maintain a more moderate temperature.

Which shelter locations do you prefer?

• Hilltop views are preferred first and foremost, followed by streamside.
• Locations that do not get early morning sun, or those where the wind in channeled to the shelter site, or not very attractive.

[Lerenke]

Hello everyone, I am a 26 year old Architecture student from Syracuse, NY. I was hoping some of you might be interested in helping out with an interesting design problem I have been given. The project is to design an open-air, lean-to style shelter for the Appalachian Trail. As I am not an avid hiker, I can only design this structure based on internet research and photos. But I thought it might be a good idea to ask those of you who do hike a few questions. Keeping in mind that the shelter can not have any operable windows, doors, plumbing, electrical, etc.:

- What features about the current shelters on the trail do you like/love?
- What features about the current shelters would you change?
- What, if any, features would you like to see, that have never been incorporated in a shelter before?
- Would you like to see a shelter that blends in with it's surroundings, or stands out like a desert oasis?
- Which shelter locations do you prefer? (hilltop view, near a stream, in the flat lands...)
And any other questions you deem fit to be answered would be greatly appreciated. Answering these few simple questions will greatly help my research progress, and also give you an opportunity to aid in the design of a shelter that may someday be built! As the project and design progress, I will post images of the design so you can see what your input helped to design. I thank you very much for your time. Happy Hiking!

First I care that it is near water among all else (do to personal preferences and style). I want it to hold upwards of ten so I am likley to get a spot. I like shelters with lots of tent sites around for similar reasons and because I always carry a tent and don't usually mind the company. I also like to cook out of the rain, but not near mine or others sleeping areas.

I prefer multiple levels, plastic windows, and a perfect view, but that is all secondary. And nothing too grand obviosly...

Oh, and it is always good when a shelter can actually shelter you from the elements. Not just wind or rain, but wind and rain.

[GGS2]

The designs of existing shelters vary quite extremely. There are a great many variables, like accessibility for building materials, ability to use power tools for construction, availability of suitable materials on site, sensitive environmental situation, local fauna and nuisances, etc. Many parks and ecologically sensitive areas have policies such as no power tools, no wheeled vehicles, etc., and many locations are only accessible by foot and helicopter, and possibly by pack animals. So a one design fits all is unlikely to be suitable.

Consider also that shelters at some locations in the south, on the AT, are extremely heavily used during a short window in the spring, when they may be called upon to house twenty or more people, while at other times, they may be close to empty. Other places may have a sustained demand for ten, twenty or more occupants. There may also be a need for overflow accommodation during extreme weather events, and so on. Many users will have their own shelter systems, but may wish to use sanitary facilities, cooking facilities and social fire pits, bear or nuisance rodent food storage protection, either hang or box type. Separating the sleeping/shelter area from the food preparation and storage systems might be worthwhile. Shelters intended for overnight use should be near a potable water source, preferably a spring or running water source not susceptible to upstream contamination.

There is a semi-infinite list of such requirements; this is simply a starter list.

In the shelter itself, there are competing needs to provide amenities and to avoid nuisances. If the AT is the target, there are difficulties associated with overuse, vandalism and inappropriate local use for partying, etc. It is definitely a good idea to consider the whole system, including maintenance. Maintainers probably have to hike in, do cleanup and repairs, and pack out rubbish in a single day. These people are often volunteers. You may not be designing the whole site, but you should at least not be contributing to the workload unnecessarily.

If you have to design a one size fits all solution, you might consider a prefab, drop from the sky design. If you are considering the wider system, you might include a prefab, drop-in latrine which complies with federal accessibility requirements, and is also suitable for adapting to wide variations in local topography, and requires a minimum of site preparation. Same thing for bear box, etc.

I'm getting tired of typing. Lots more to consider... By the way, I'm not an AT hiker, but I have considered this problem for other trails in Canada, which are very undeveloped in this respect.

[ArchStudent]

This project is pretty specific. We can not use materials that we can not carry in, therefore, not helicopters or vehicles of any kind, so prefab is out and local materials are a must. A bear box is required as is a compost toilet. I am toying with the idea of individual 9"x14" integrated bear boxes at every sleeping quarter, rather than a giant, 15 cu. ft. box that would be a "bear" to get up the trail, thus my line of questioning. I appreciate everyones input. Thanks so much. I will definitely post JPEG's as this progresses.

[1azarus]

congrats on syracuse's arch school rating!!!

[1azarus]

those who've commented on the issues with eating and sleeping in the same "shelter" have a really good point. I'd be tempted to tweak the program to have separate eating and sleeping areas -- perhaps separated by 50 or more feet. that would also give everyone an opportunity to have a quiet sleeping area and a social area for those who like to stay up late -- well, or sleep early!!! of course, the bear box could be associated with the eating area... people who've posted really know their shelters -- some great comments.

[ArchStudent]

anyone have an opinion on integrating mosquito nets in the front opening or entrance? are the bugs a non-issue? (again, im not a hiker and im pretty sure they would drive me insane...)

[Cosmo]

Skylights or clerestory windows so the back end of the place is not so dark that I have to use a headlamp to see into my pack.

I'm rather fond of the metal roof as a maintainer/ shelter builder. Easy to carry in and install. Put it over solid roof sheathing (rather than purlins) to make it a little quieter. Slippery metal sheds pine needles and leaves that can accumulate. That said, cedar shingles are considerably more aesthetic.

I like seeing the rafters and other post and beam type (or full round log) structure. Mice are a function of food. Keep the food out, and the mice will be much less of an issue. I like the idea of individual food boxes, but bears can smell the food even in the box, so I think the larger box set away from the shelter area is the way to go. A 18"x18"x 36" (more or less) tool box is not impossible to carry in (not something I'd want to do every day, though).

What are thoughts on the capacity of the shelter? How many hikers should it hold?

Then there is the whole accessibility issue. The US Forest Service has some pretty good info on building backcountry structures that are universally accessible, and still look like they belong there.

Cosmo

[ArchStudent]

Thanks for the thoughts. The shelter has to accommodate 12-15 hikers. I appreciate the feedback. This is all really really great info.

[tuswm]

near water
lots of places to hand things
anti mice everything
a place to put wood to dry

[waywardfool]

Variety is cool. Simple is cool. Overdesigned and overbuilt monuments to the designer/builder are not cool.

I'd go metal roof for one reason: they'll last 50+ years. Trail clubs have better things to do than re-roof every 12-20 years.

No hidey-places and racetracks for the mice. Open beams, ledges, etc can look good, but are super-highways for the mice. No steps, etc to the sleeping platforms to make it harder for the skunks.

I'm not a fan of hammocks, but they are popular, so a place for stringing up a couple of hammocks.

I like what somebody proposed earlier...a pavillion type shelter for socializing and cooking. Room for hanging hammocks, and maybe one wall for a wind break, on the prevailing side. Proximity to safe water is paramount (but not too close). 2nd is protection from weather (i.e. in a cove vs. on a knob). 3rd (1st to some) is environmental impact concerns, both of the immediate shelter and tenters, etc that would set up in a 1/4 mile radius. Also, must be located away from roads and easy access, or it turns into a party shack for the local kids.

That said, we don't need no stinkin' shelters. [/lonewolf]

[Toolshed]

ArchStudent, Don't know if you are aware, but in Northville, NY, the NYSDEC builds log lean-tos and then takes them apart and flies them bit by bit into the Adirondacks. You might consider reaching out to them and see if you can get involved in a L/T project or take a short trip to one that's closer to you (Such as in the Old Forge Area). These L/T's typically sleep 8-10 people.

[white_russian]

anyone have an opinion on integrating mosquito nets in the front opening or entrance? are the bugs a non-issue? (again, im not a hiker and im pretty sure they would drive me insane...)

mosquito nets or even screen wire is not durable enough to last very long. you have to remember these things need to be overbuilt so they can last a very long time. when bugs are an issue people use their individual bug protection either by DEET, headnets, bug bivies, ect. personally when the bugs are out I am usually sleeping in my hammock and using the shelter as a social gathering point.

[Slo-go'en]

There are some pretty fancy shelters on the trail now. They must have cost a bundle to build! I'm a fan of the simple, low cost Forest Service shelters made in the 50's and 60's. Just some 2X4's, 2X6's, plywood and cinder block foundation.

[sasquatch2014]

I understand the ideal of the open air shelter and see that it is a requirement of your project so work on some out o e box ideas that will keep the wind out of the shelter. Some of my favorite shelters have had rolling doors to them so they can be closed off.

I also second the idea of an area separate from the shelter that can be sued for a food pavilion. think the Jim and Molly Denton shelter. This keeps the food smells away from where you eat and it also provides an area for social interaction that doers not get in the way of those that follow the hiker midnight ideals.

I am not sure but I know that my local hiking club now wants all privies to be ADA compliant which is stupid because the f*ing cliff before and after the shelter are not ADA compliant so not sure i e same bullcrap politics have been injected into your project requirements or not. I am all for the use of the trail by people by disabilities but lets use some common sense. Not all places are ADA accessible so not all shelters need that requirement.

[LIhikers]

A floor that won't allow water to pool up.
I have no idea how you could do that but maybe you could dream something up.

[Tinker]

A lot of shelters don't have much of an overhang. Those that do often have the overhang too low, allowing taller hikers to bump their heads. An example of a good shelter design I've seen recently is the Hemlocks Shelter near the Jug End in Massachusetts.

[WILLIAM HAYES]

somewhere on this site I believe there is a gallery of shelter phtos you may want to check them out personally I like a fireplace in the shelter -some shelters in the smokies have them good luck on your project- also at Partnership shelter on the AT there is a solar shower which was really cool to have available