Another Shelter Etiquette Question

[bigben]

I know the unwritten rules. But, what is the most Whiteblaze readership-approved course of action if, for example, I walk in a little late to a full shelter in the Smokies that I have an official, numbered, through the park's reservation system, shelter reservation for? I am not an a-hole and don't want to ever come across as being one, but I'm a section hiker who did things the right way, got on the phone at the right time and played by GSMNP's rules. As far as I'm concerned, I'm entitled to the shelter spots I reserved.

Basically, what I'm asking is how to potentially kick someone out of my spot without being a dick?

Be frank with your answers; I'm a big boy and can take it.

Ben

[Dobie Swift]

Set up your tent and sleep in it.

[sbhikes]

I swear, if I ever hike the AT, I'm not going to stay in shelters. The whole shelter system sounds like the worst thing about the whole trail. You might as well just backpack through Europe and sleep in bus stations and hostels.

[10-K]

I know the unwritten rules. But, what is the most Whiteblaze readership-approved course of action if, for example, I walk in a little late to a full shelter in the Smokies that I have an official, numbered, through the park's reservation system, shelter reservation for? I am not an a-hole and don't want to ever come across as being one, but I'm a section hiker who did things the right way, got on the phone at the right time and played by GSMNP's rules. As far as I'm concerned, I'm entitled to the shelter spots I reserved.

Basically, what I'm asking is how to potentially kick someone out of my spot without being a dick?

Be frank with your answers; I'm a big boy and can take it.

Ben

Consider it a blessing and an ideal situation - pitch your tent and be happy you have an opportunity to avoid sleeping in the shelter.

[garlic08]

Consider it a blessing and an ideal situation - pitch your tent and be happy you have an opportunity to avoid sleeping in the shelter.

Ditto this. I hiked very late each day in the Smokies for the very reason of arriving at a full shelter to avoid sleeping it.

[sidebackside]

Consider it a blessing and an ideal situation - pitch your tent and be happy you have an opportunity to avoid sleeping in the shelter.

I hear what your saying 10-K but what if he doesn't have a tent b/c he is section hiking only through the Smokies and has made reservations to stay in only shelters? I know someone will say something like,"he's a fool for not bringing a tent in the first place." But speaking hypothetically, let's say one doesn't have a tent...what's the best way to approach this dreaded conversation??? Politely ask if everyone has a reservation?

[10-K]

I hear what your saying 10-K but what if he doesn't have a tent b/c he is section hiking only through the Smokies and has made reservations to stay in only shelters? I know someone will say something like,"he's a fool for not bringing a tent in the first place." But speaking hypothetically, let's say one doesn't have a tent...what's the best way to approach this dreaded conversation??? Politely ask if everyone has a reservation?

Ask someone to borrow their tent...

Seriously though, not carrying some type of shelter on an overnight backpacking trip raises other questions that are perhaps more important.

Like, what am I going to do if I don't make it to a shelter at all?

[grizzlyadam]

"Section hikers must stay in shelters and must make reservations. Four spaces are set aside at each shelter for thru-hikers. When those spaces are taken, additional thru-hikers may tent in the vicinity of the shelter. All hikers must use the bear cables to secure their food."

[HikerMom58]

What about bears in the Smokies? I've read that some shelters through there have sliding gates to be used at night to keep the bears out of the shelters. I read that one night all the ones "tenting" had to get in the shelter b/c of a bear trying to get their hanging food.

If you don't carry a tent and plan on staying in the shelters you should be able too, if you've planned ahead, but I think that's only happens in a "perfect world". *Sigh*

[10-K]

If you don't carry a tent and plan on staying in the shelters you should be able too, if you've planned ahead, but I think that's only happens in a "perfect world". *Sigh*

It's not always due to something you can control. Weather conditions can cause quite a bit of disruption in the shelter reservation system. In bad weather, it might be *you* that is in the wrong place come dark.

Like you say, in a perfect world.

[Point Man Chef]

So am I reading that if I am section hiking I am required to stay in a shelter. I'm new to the AT but I haven't seen anything on this. I'm asking based on Grizzly Adam's post. My son and I were just planing on either shelter or tent depending on where we were etc.

[papa john]

I swear, if I ever hike the AT, I'm not going to stay in shelters. The whole shelter system sounds like the worst thing about the whole trail. You might as well just backpack through Europe and sleep in bus stations and hostels.

This shelter reservation system only applies to the Smokies.

[Appalachian Tater]

Or you could injure yourself and not be able to move quickly enough to get to a shelter. Bluntly, not carrying some kind of a shelter is pretty stupid.

In the situation the OP is asking about I would be very glad to be able to tent. If I were really truly wanting to stay in the shelter and had a reservation I would just say in a nice way that I was sorry to show up so late but could people please scoot over and squeeze me in since I have a reservation and am required to stay in the shelter and stand there smiling until people made room or someone said, "oh, sorry, thought the shelter was empty, I'll tent" and left the shelter. It might make for an awkward moment in bad weather but whatever. I have seen three guys spread out in a ten person shelter move very s-l-o-w-l-y when asked to make room for a few others, well before dusk.

You can safely assume that some or most of the people in a shelter in the Smokies don't understand the rules.

[Point Man Chef]

Gotcha Papa John. Thanks!

[scope]

I hear what your saying 10-K but what if he doesn't have a tent b/c he is section hiking only through the Smokies and has made reservations to stay in only shelters? I know someone will say something like,"he's a fool for not bringing a tent in the first place." But speaking hypothetically, let's say one doesn't have a tent...what's the best way to approach this dreaded conversation??? Politely ask if everyone has a reservation?

First thing you do is realize if you are upset - if you are, then you will come across this way almost no matter how nice you try to be. Just stay factual - you have a reservation, repeat the rules and allow folks in the shelter to make the right choice. Chances are good they will. Folks might know the rules but don't know if late hikers have reservations or even if they would rather be in the shelter or not if they don't say anything. Based on some of the posts here, I might think I'm doing a late hiker a favor by occupying space in a shelter without reservation. I don't guess the rangers care who is outside the shelter as long as its full?

[bigben]

I will, do, and always have carried a shelter with me. Not stupid, and never unprepared. I ask because 1) while not the peak time, I'll be down there at a relatively busy time(5/4-7) and 2) because of "the rules" I'm strongly considering leaving the tent at home and just carying a tarp(saves 3lbs) but I really don't like sleeping under tarps if I can help it. Frankly, I don't see this being a problem being as there's 3 of us going and I have 3 reservations at each of the 3 GSMNP shelters we plan to stay at and one of us, a hammock hanger, plans to just wait until the shelter fills up and hammock camp, thus leaving an empty spot.

I generally tent camp at the shelter areas while on the AT unless I roll into the shelter in a downpour. I'm just trying to get a consensus of "the most right" way to deal with this potential situation, and definitely not trying to stir the pot here.

[papa john]

Only those hikers whose permit says "Thru Hiker" are allowed to camp outside a shelter. Everyone else is required to sleep inside the shelter. Everyone is required to have a permit although I have hiked with those who didn't and ran the risk of being fined or tossed out of the park. The rules are the rules. Enforcement is altogether something else. I've ever been asked for my permit by anyone although I have yet to see a ranger in the back country. Seen a few ridge runners but no rangers.

[10-K]

I generally tent camp at the shelter areas while on the AT unless I roll into the shelter in a downpour. I'm just trying to get a consensus of "the most right" way to deal with this potential situation, and definitely not trying to stir the pot here.

Well, there is no "right" way. There's just how it is when you get there and how you decide to deal with it. What might be "right" at one shelter may be "wrong" at the next one.

Bottom line: Carry some type of shelter and be prepared to use it - because for some reason completely out of your control you may need it - which makes everything else moot.

[sidebackside]

I'm just trying to get a consensus of "the most right" way to deal with this potential situation, and definitely not trying to stir the pot here.

I don't think your stirring the pot. It's a good question.

...I'm strongly considering leaving the tent at home...

I often don't carry a tent with my when I hike in the Smokies because of the shelters. According some of the other posts that's not a good idea. I say this generally speaking, if you have a reservation for a shelter normally there are no problems with getting your spot. In fact, i wouldn't say all, but alot of people that hike in the Smokies don't carry a tent/tarp because of the shelters.

[jesse]

Consider it a blessing and an ideal situation - pitch your tent and be happy you have an opportunity to avoid sleeping in the shelter.

Yes. I also "ditto".