Pack weight w/out food/water/fuel?

[tlbj6142]

Check out the 3-season 3-day list on bpl.com. Don't get worked about the brand/models listed and to a lesser extent don't get too worked up about the item weights. Use it to help you deside which items are "extra".

The list is fairly conservative in terms of item count, it is the specific weights that make it such a lightweight lists. If you end up with an item count (plus/minus 2-3 items) and a pack weight within 2-3# you've done all you can do without making expensive choices.

For example, the above list has sunglasses and sunscreen on it. You probably won't need those items on the AT. But you might want an extra shirt to sleep in. The list has a 32F bag that weighs 15.5oz. If your 20F bag weighs 3.5#, you can do much better.

[Moose2001]

Sprocket....here's my quick suggestions....I'm sure the ultralighters wil have more for you!

Base Layer(s)

Patagonia Capilene Lightweight long sleeve top (size L)
Patagonia Capilene Lightweight bottoms
REI MTS lightweight crew tee (size L)
REI Polypro sock liners (3 pr.)
Smartwool Boxer Briefs DROP....either wear none or have shorts with a liner
Mid Layer(s)/Insulation:

Arc’Teryx RHO top
Mountain Hardware “Dome” Polartec beanie
Dahlgren Backpacking socks (3pr.) Don't really need 4 pair of socks. 3 will do
Thorlo Backpacker socks (1pr.)
Arc’Teryx Gamma SV Gloves

Outerwear/Shell(s):

Marmot Rim Jacket Heavy....Try a Precip
Arc’Teryx Switchback shorts
Sunglasses Leave at home
Mountain Hardware trail pants

Footwear:

La Sportiva Glaciers
Green Superfeet Insoles
Camp Shoes (Keen H2’s)
Nikwax Seude Leave at Home
Backpack/Related Gear:

Gregory Whitney
Gregory pack cover
REI strap(s) Leave at Home
3 Liter Nalgene Wide Mouth Hydration Bladder
Waterproof Stuff sack for Sleeping Bag
Waterproof Stuff sack for Emergency clothes (Granite Gear compression)
Fleece lined stuff for dirty clothes/pillow

Kitchen Gear:

Optimus Nova Stove
Snow Peak Middle Cooker 2400 Ti
Snow Peak Ti Spork
Leatherman Charge Ti
MSR Miniworks EX
Big Sky Bistro Coffee Press/Insulated Mug Leave the press home
Ursack not needed. Use a #3 OR stuff sack.
Nalgene 32oz. Wide Mouth Lexan Bottle

Tent/Accessories:

Mountain Hardware Airjet 2
Footprint
Easton stakes
Repair kit Leave at Home
Seam Sealer Leave at Home

Sleeping System:

Mountain Hardware Spectre SL
Cocoon Silk Liner
Big Agnes REM Insulated Air Core 72” Mummy Style pad HEAVY
Navigation:

Silva Compass
Necessary map(s)
Appropriate Guidebook

Misc. Accessories:

Leki Ultralite Ti Air Ergo PA Trekking Poles
Black Diamond Zenix Headlamp
Digital Camera (Sony/Cannon)
Parachute chord for bear baggin’ (50’)
Suunto observer watch
Blistex
Toothbrush/Paste
Adventure Medical Personal Essentials First-Aid Kit Don't need this big of kit
Bandana(s) 2-3 You just need one
SAS emergency “tin” what is this?? Get rid of it
Toilet Paper
“Emergency blanket” Leave at home
Written Itinerary for family with ETA’s write it in your databook
Extra Lithium batteries
Duct Tape Just need a little. Dont' bring a big roll
Ziploc Freezer Bags (many)
Pot Scrubber
Sunscreen
Laminated (sealed) pic’s of Bre’Anna
Universal Phone card
Emergency money ($100.00-$200.00)
Laminated (sealed) Medical card w/ vital info (blood type/allergies/age etc….)

[MileMonster]

My $.02 -

Your list looks pretty good to me. Not alot of unnecessaries or luxury items. The things you have look very functional and of good quality. Just not the lightest on the market in each category.

The clothes you listed, is that everything that will be with you when you start, including what you will have on?

My suggetstions for easy & cheap changes:

Things to ditch -
boxers
nickwax
1 pr socks, 1 pr liners
Seam Sealer
1 or 2 bandanas
SAS emergency tin
emergency blanket

Relativly cheap swaps -
Gregory pack cover for sil-nylon pack cover
Optimus stove for Pepsi can alcohol stove
Waterproof stuff sacks for sil-nylon stuff sacks (if they aren't)
Fleece lined stuff sack/dirty clothes/pillow (dirty clothes as a pillow?? Yikes!) for silnylon clothing stuff sack
MSR Miniworks for Polar Pure
Ursack for silnylon food bag
Lexan water bottle for a 1 liter bottle of water from a mini-mart/gas station
Pare down the medical kit

After that I see mostly bigger and more expensive swap-outs to get really light.

[Peaks]

Sprocket,

Everyone has their own ideas on what equipment is needed and what is not. Best way for you to find out is to go out there are do it.

That being said, no need for a Ursack. But, you should have a stuff sack for a food bag.

Look for ways to trim ounces. Lexan Nalgenes are nice, but weigh in at over 6 ounces. The HDPE Nalgenes about a couple of ounces lighter. Even lighter yet is a sport drink bottle.

Use the seam sealer on your tent before starting, so you don't need to carry it along. Waterproof your boots before you start, and leave the Nikwax behind, or in a bounce box.

Extra Batteries? For what? Unless you night hike, the batteries in a headlamp last a long long time. And if they get low, then buy replacements in route.

[The Solemates]

Base Layer(s)

Patagonia Capilene Lightweight long sleeve top (size L)
Patagonia Capilene Lightweight bottoms
REI MTS lightweight crew tee (size L)
REI Polypro sock liners (3 pr.) You dont really need sock liners. I would leave them at home. Even if you did want them, you certainly dont need 3 pair.
Smartwool Boxer Briefs You dont need these. Go without or buy pants that have a liner built in.
Mid Layer(s)/Insulation:

Arc’Teryx RHO top
Mountain Hardware “Dome” Polartec beanie
Dahlgren Backpacking socks (3pr.) Only need 2 pair of socks.
Thorlo Backpacker socks (1pr.) Again, you really only need 2 pair of socks total.
Arc’Teryx Gamma SV Gloves

Outerwear/Shell(s):

Marmot Rim Jacket
Arc’Teryx Switchback shorts Instead of shorts and pants, buy convertibles with a built-in liner. My favorites are the Ex Oficio Amphi pants.
Sunglasses No need for these. You are mainly in forested areas.
Mountain Hardware trail pants

Footwear:

La Sportiva Glaciers
Green Superfeet Insoles
Camp Shoes (Keen H2’s) These are a bit heavy. I would go with Waldies.
Nikwax Seude Put this in a bounce box. Dont carry it the whole way.

Backpack/Related Gear:

Gregory Whitney You could certainly find a lighter pack, but I understand about cost/emotionally attached, etc. if like this one.
Gregory pack cover
REI strap(s) What are these for? Ditch em.
3 Liter Nalgene Wide Mouth Hydration Bladder
Waterproof Stuff sack for Sleeping Bag Try a trash bag...much lighter.
Waterproof Stuff sack for Emergency clothes (Granite Gear compression) ditto.
Fleece lined stuff for dirty clothes/pillow This is unecessary I think.

Kitchen Gear:

Optimus Nova Stove
Snow Peak Middle Cooker 2400 Ti
Snow Peak Ti Spork
Leatherman Charge Ti IMO, there is no need for any type of pocket knife on the AT.
MSR Miniworks EX There lighter filters out there.
Big Sky Bistro Coffee Press/Insulated Mug
Ursack Is this a bear bag? Dont need...just use your sleeping bag bag.
Nalgene 32oz. Wide Mouth Lexan Bottle Plastic soda bottles are lighter.

Tent/Accessories:

Mountain Hardware Airjet 2 There are lighter tents.
Footprint
Easton stakes
Repair kit Put this in a bounce box.Seam Sealer Put this in a bounce box.

Sleeping System:

Mountain Hardware Spectre SL
Cocoon Silk Liner I would not take this. Depends on your temp rating of your bag and your sleeping habits.
Big Agnes REM Insulated Air Core 72” Mummy Style pad Use a much lighter foam pad.

Navigation:

Silva Compass A compass is not needed on the AT. Go North.
Necessary map(s) Maps are not needed on the AT. Follow the trail.
Appropriate Guidebook

Misc. Accessories:

Leki Ultralite Ti Air Ergo PA Trekking Poles
Black Diamond Zenix Headlamp
Digital Camera (Sony/Cannon)
Parachute chord for bear baggin’ (50’) I carried none and never had a need for it. Hang it on a limb via your sleeping bag bag.
Suunto observer watch
Blistex Not needed.
Toothbrush/Paste
Adventure Medical Personal Essentials First-Aid Kit If you want to...
Bandana(s) 2-3 One should be sufficient.
SAS emergency “tin” What is this?
Toilet Paper
“Emergency blanket” Not needed.
Written Itinerary for family with ETA’s Write this in your guidebook.
Extra Lithium batteries Bounce these items.Duct Tape Bounce this.
Ziploc Freezer Bags (many) Bounce.
Pot Scrubber Use your bandana.
Sunscreen Not needed.
Laminated (sealed) pic’s of Bre’Anna
Universal Phone card
Emergency money ($100.00-$200.00)
Laminated (sealed) Medical card w/ vital info (blood type/allergies/age etc….)

I have made many comments on this, but dont take it personally. Everyones gear is different to them. I just pared it down to the essentials according to me. If it was me, I dont know that I would go out and buy new stuff unless you had some extra cash that you could do so. I was just trying to give lighter alternatives. Just trying to help...

[SalParadise]

Actually, before the leaves came out, I was glad I had my sunglasses.
You'll never notice the stink of your clothes when you sleep on them, don't worry.
Do you have two bottoms? You'll only need one pair.
You don't really need the water filter.
I used a pocketknife all the time, particularly to open/cut food.
Do you still have the receipt? Get the 1-person AirJet, a tarp or a hammock and you could save yourself 3-4 pounds right there.

It's really just your "Big 3" that you would hate buying lighter replacements of, simply for cost reasons. Everything else you'll figure out as you get to be a more savvy long-distance hiker.

[sprocket]

Actually, I was thinking of nixin' the skivvies, a few bandans and the shades.....but no compass? No maps on such a well marked path, maybe, but I haven't been without my pocket knife or a compass since the scouts. You know the credo...
Buying new stuff isn't so much of an issue for me right now (first time in ten yearsI can say that). I'll be swappin' out the bag for a warmerone around the first week of May. I see the point of shaving down the pairs of socks....will do, but "toasty" feet in clean socks at night is one of those "comforts" I can't be without. MH doesn't make an Airjet "1", or I woulda snagged it, but another tent I liked was the MSR zoid? Any comments on other good 3 season tents (not ready for the hammocks or tarps......yet)? I had planned on bouncin' a lot of this stuff, I just listed it for consideration(s). I got the Nalgene bladder and bottle cause the miniworks hooks right up to it, no fuss. But no filters? I guess I could aquamira it all the way, but is it good for you for so long? The MH bag is rated to 20 deg. F, so I didn't see the need for the liner either, but keeping it clean minimizes how many times I gotta wash the bag.....retaining loft etc....
No Ursack.....got it. The "SAS tin" is an empty altoids case filled with assorted fish hooks, duct tape, nylon string, needles and other emergengy stuff I got into the habit of carrying in the scouts years ago. Gotten from the SAS survival handbook we practiced knot tying, snare making, tracking etc...
And I guess finally....What's the deal with alcohol stoves? I knowthey are WAY lighter than the multi fuel one I'm used to, but I heard while they are quite simple in design, they don't work so well in extreme cold, take longer to cook with, and therefore require more fuel in the end.....basically equalling the weight of what I'd be taking anyway...."discuss it amongst yourselves " without the ease of use/control that the Nova DEFINITELY has. And lastly, the Marmot Rim is only an ounce more in weight than the precip....with better wind protection and reinforced elbows....and just plain SOLID!
Ok....I think that's it. Comments?

[Dances with Mice]

Three points:

First, being a former Scout and more recently a former Scout leader, the main difference between backpacking as practiced by the BSA and by long distance hikers is one of mind set. It took me a while to make the transition.

Scouts practice setting up a comfortable campsite, then packing up the campsite and moving it elsewhere. That may be oversimplified, but not much. Their emphasis is on camping and taking redundant safety measures. Think of long distance hiking as a long walk interrupted by a series of emergency bivoucs. Imagine walking all day then crashing, carrying just enough to prepare a simple meal and to sleep warm and protected. The emphasis is on walking, the camping portion is whittled down to the bare necessities.

Second: Your Ursack reminded me of my last Scout troop, they bought several of the large Ursacks for a backpacking trip to Colorado. It made the most perfect bag for my Thermarest pad! Bulletproof! Then at night when I took out my pad, it got used to hang the food. Just a thought. I don't carry one anymore.

Third - it's easy to adjust your cooking style to the type of stove you have. An alcohol stove reliably boils a couple cups of water. It's easy to find foods that fit that cooking style. I don't have the link handy but a Google search of "Iditarod alcohol stove" will show that all Iditarod dog sled racers use alcohol burners because they work reliably, even in extreme cold. And they're boiling 5 gallons or so of water at a time! They can carry any stove they want, but they've all switched to home-made alcohol burners. See Sgt Rock's page for a great discussion of alcohol burners.

[Happy]

It's not if you will go to a alcohol stove but when? I use them in GA in Jan with no problem. I hike every March and April with aspiring thru hikers and the trail registers are full of comments of I HAVE TO REDUCE MY PACK WEIGHT
to prevail!

Why do you think that over two tons of gear each year is shipped home from 30 miles of the start? Better to figure this out from the beginning. Not that some hikers prevail the whole way with 60 pounds..but be smarter!

I have never heard a thru hiker say they enjoyed more weight! Use the above comments to start with 30 or less pounds from Springer and you will be very Happy!

[sprocket]

Thank you Happy, and as for Dances with Mice, Your comments are exactly what I've been searching for....gimme the REASONS and a deal of proof as to why I need to or should change my "ways"....I think I'll start looking into an alcahol stove alternative....

[Happy]

Every thru hiker I have hiked with in the past four years has asked the same questions as you have and changed their mind over the next 30 to 300 hundred miles!

Just trying to give you an early alternative! As LW stated just start as you plan and adjust as you see fit...just trying to save you weight during your adjustment...let me know when you finish!!!

[Peaks]

The comments on your gear list reflects different opinions about what's necessary and what's not. All well intentioned, but the choice is yours.

Certainly take some of the suggestions with a grain of salt such as no maps. Perhaps the AT can be hiked without them, but it's certainly not being responsible. Carry the appropriate maps.

Waterproof stuff sack? Myself I use sil nylon stuff sacks that are waterproof. So, I don't need a plastic bag to line the stuff sack.

Use sleeping bag stuff sack for a food bag? Not me. I use an additional food bag for a food bag. It keeps food smell and mess if something ruptures from gettting all over my pack.

Clothing is relatively light. Use your own judgement.

[grrickar]

Sprocket - It does take a slightly different mindset when moving from the Boy Scout motto - "Be Prepared" to long distance hiking. My first trip out the heaviest my pack ever got was about 38lbs, and that was with 5 days food, water, and fuel to last 9-10 days (turns out I brought some food and fuel back at the end). I felt like I was ready for most situations, and knew I could improvise in others. I will likely never be considered an utlralighter - I like having the gear when I need it.

Here is my list if that will help (from my first section hike):

O2 Rainwear (tops and bottoms)
1 long sleeve Duofold coolmax type shirt
2 short sleeve coolmax type shirts (One duofold, one Columbia)
Duofold long johns (tops and bottoms)
2 pair compression shorts (a must to prevent chafing, else go commando!)
2 pair convertable Sports Afield pants (zip off legs)
2 pair wool hiking socks
3 pair sock liners (I wanted my feet to be dry, but they seldom were)
duct tape
20oz propel water bottle
1.5 liter Kelty hydration bladder
Mountain Hardware 2nd Dimension 20 degree bag (way overkill for the temps we encountered)
First aid kit (moleskin and duct tape being the most used components)
Motrin (carry plenty, if hiking long days you will welcome it)
Thermarest Prolite 3 self-inflating pad (full length - again, overkill)
Granite Gear ultralight compression sack for sleeping bag
Granite Gear compression sack for clothes
ziplocs (a couple of 2 qt, a one gallon and a two gallon)
Small bottle Dr. Bronners soap (for dishes,clothes and self)
Msr pack towel
Princeton Tec Aurora headlamp
Princeton Tec EclipseII pinchlight
waterproof matches
two firestarter sticks (wax and sawdust?)
Optimus Nova stove
22oz MSR fuel bottle with Coleman fuel
Snow Peak 3 cup pot with lid
Small plastic bowl nested inside(measuring cup, drinking cup, bowl to eat out of, etc)
MSR Miniworks Filter
maps and compass
watch with thermometer, compass built in
digital camera
Equinox silnylon food bag
MSR Hubba one man tent with footprint

Things I would do differently:
-Only bring one pair convertable pants and one pair of compression shorts
-Lighter, higher rated sleeping bag (it got hot in that bag with the temps we had)
-leave the firestarter sticks behind (I gave them away the last day)
-Carry less fuel (16oz?)
-sort out exactly what I was going to eat which meal and ensure I wasn't bringing back food (although we finished early, so we might have been dead on had we not)

[The Solemates]

You asked about the tent...I think the best tent on the market for a thru-hike is the Mtn Hardwear Waypoint. It comes in a 1 or 2-man version. The 1-man version weighs a mere 3 lbs, one of the lightest out there that still is an enclosed tent.

After you described the "tin" I dont think you need any of those things.

Your sleeping bag is gonna get nasty either way. I would still leave the liner at home. You should be ok with the 20 deg, as long as you are leaving at a normal time (ie late march or later).

I would still take a filter and a gas stove. I dont like to think about an extended period of exposure to chemical treatment, not to mention I often pumped from mudholes and chemical treatment would not have worked. A gas stove is always a plus in my mind. No alcohol here.

[A-Train]

Funny, everyones said to ditch the emergency blanket. I might keep it for awhile, maybe until after the smokies. Sure it seems ridiculous to most thru-hikers when thinking about spring/summer hiking but...

I started 3/1 and had an insanly cold night at Gooch Gap on the 2nd night. It was below zero with windchill for sure and I couldnt fall asleep because I was shivering so hard, even with my 20 degree bag, ALL my clothes and a liner. It was either the emergency blanket, or the cold water I drank, or a combo of the two, but I was able to stay alive and even fall asleep!

I know ur leaving 3/28-but its one of those things that you won't need until you do...Plus it weighs all over 2 ozs

[sprocket]

I agree Atrain, "Be prepared" has been my adopted motto since I was 8. I got the heavier Gregory Whitney pack for the reason that it could carry 40+ lbs. comfortably with that superb suspension that it has. I guessI was hoping to pare down the 29lb. dry weight to about 21-22lbs, but I can't see how to do this and still "Hike my own hike".....or style. some peeps say alcohol stoves are the shizz...and others say gas is the way to go. I KNOW I've got the perfect clothes setup, I've used it for a couple years now minus the recent addition of the Arc' RHO top. Sure, I could shave major weight with a tarp, a sub 2lb synthetic bag, alcohol stove and a pack without any semblance of suspension......nixxing all the creature comforts of decent trail food in the stead of boil bags, but hey....i love waking up to a GOOD cup of joe, Cumin and Dhanajiru powder go a long way with just a wee pinch and bug protection just feels right.....so, is there anywhere else y'all could suggest shavin my list? Or do I just gotta eat the weight, wich has been allright to me for week long exploits in the whites? I guess in the end, it seems like I'll just have to "walk the walk" and discard as neccesity dictates.....

[sprocket]

And by the way, every one of your responses has helped a great deal. I can't tell you the trepidation I've got going on, heading into the woods for MONTHS at a time....It's great to know such a resource exists. I love you ALL, man....sniff....er........um.....sorry, still emotional 'bout the Sox winning the ALCS....

[Dances with Mice]

I guessI was hoping to pare down the 29lb. dry weight to about 21-22lbs........so, is there anywhere else y'all could suggest shavin my list? ....

If you've decided to make no changes in your choice of backpack, tent, cooking gear, sleeping bag and clothes, how much is left?

[sprocket]

Dances with Mice said: "If you've decided to make no changes in your choice of backpack, tent, cooking gear, sleeping bag and clothes, how much is left?"

It's not that I won't change any of the "big 4", just looking for feedback on the other things you all do to skimp the weight down.....like, how much medical kit do I really need? I'll pare down the clothes by leavin' the skivvies at home as well as one pr. of socks and liners. And what about the cooking gear? It's a single pot with frypan/lid....Did you second the leaving behind m beloved coffee press ?. The press doubles as an insulated mug for ramen and "add hot water and let sit" meals......<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[kncats]

Just a couple of observations:

The Mountain Hardwear tent you are looking at weighs 4# 6oz and has 30 square feet of floor space. For one person that's a cavern. You really can get much lighter and still use a tent. The tent my wife and I use weighs 2# 5oz and has 40 square feet of floor space. But, if you don't want to go with a single wall tent you can still get down to about 3#.

There are plenty of packs that have a very good semblance of suspension that weigh a good deal less than 7#. My external frame packs weighs in at 4# 1 oz and has more suspension than ANY internal frame pack can. A lot of the weight in your Gregory comes from the fact that it is 5000+ cubic inches. Even in the middle of winter with heavy gear that's a lot of room.

For me the fact that the MSR filter connects right up the the Nalgene is a moot point. I just put the outlet hose from my filter right into the water bag. I have the attachment to connect it to the water bladder but I don't carry it because it's not really necessary. Personally though, I say stay with the filter itself even though it's heavier than chemicals.

As far as the alcohol stove goes, yes, they do use more fuel in the long run. But you would have to be carrying all of your fuel needs for a long time period in order for a liquid or canister stove to win out weight wise. Even if you're refueling only once a week then the alcohol stove still is lighter. You don't need to give up "all the creature comforts of decent trail food" just because your burning alcohol instead of white gas. There are ways to fix up an alky burner to simmer and cook whatever you want. The Trangia comes with a great, easy to use simmer attachment and people have designs for the even lighter soda can stoves also. And whether the food comes to a simmer or boil in 3 minutes or 8 isn't a big deal. We find something else to do while the food's cooking.

A french press makes fantastic coffee and no one loves coffee more than I do. However, at 7 oz for the press plus the additional weight of coffee grounds versus other means of making a hot, caffeinated beverage just became too much to really be worth it over a long period of time and my press is now relegated to the old gear box. YOu don't really need the insulated cup for ramen noodles or sit and wait meals. They can do that in the pan you already have.

Most of all, just keep an open mind. Hike your own hike but be willing to investigate other ways to skin that cat.