New Shelter Concept

[Lauriep]

It's always good to see people thinking creatively!

I know your thesis is theoretical, but there are some real-world considerations that might to useful for you (and others who may be curious about how A.T. shelters are built) to be aware of:

First, there is the overarching issue of what the A.T. experience is all about. The Appalachian Trail Conservancy, in partnership with land managers and trail volunteers, has developed the following definition of the A.T. experience:

“The sum of opportunities that are available for those walking on the Appalachian Trail to interact with the wild, scenic, pastoral, cultural, and natural elements of the environment of the Appalachian Trail, unfettered and unimpeded by competing sights or sounds, and in as direct and intimate a manner as possible. Integral to this Trail Experience are:

• opportunities for observation, contemplation, enjoyment, and exploration of the natural world
• a sense of remoteness and detachment from civilization
• opportunities to experience solitude, freedom, personal accomplishment, self-reliance, and self discovery
• a sense of being on the height of the land
• a feeling of being part of the natural environment
• opportunities for travel on foot, including opportunities for long-distance hiking.”

Another issue to be aware of is that of permissions from land-managing agencies. Depending on what part of the A.T. you are considering, it might be the National Park Service, the U.S. Forest Service, a state park or forest, etc. You'd also need the approval of the local A.T.-maintaining club and ATC. There are formal guidelines for Locating and Designing A.T. Shelters and Formal Campsites.

The A.T. might not be the best place for your shelter concept, but your shelter might be just the ticket for other less primitive trails or settings where the technology and design would be welcome.

Laurie P.
Appalachian Trail Conservancy

[emerald]

He didn't listen at all and just did what he wanted.

Next thing you know the outdoors have disappeared.

It had occurred to me earlier this morning to link the other thread. I don't think the purpose of the original thread was to seek input since he already seemed committed to a particular course of action.

I recall suggesting the project be refocused to provide an in-town offering. It may be revealing a new thread was begun to announce this project's completion rather than append it to the original thread.

As an academic exercise in design, it may have served a useful purpose. I hope all of the comments will be read and given full consideration by the thread starter, others reading now and who may come across it later.

Too many are hell-bent on commercializing the A.T. and view it as an opportunity to generate revenue rather than as a resource of ever-increasing value to be conserved and safeguarded against those who would exploit it for their own purposes. Were this project promoted as a means of conserving or protecting the A.T.'s resources, I would have a more favorable view of it.

I pray something like this will never be permitted within the A.T. corridor by the authorities charged with managing it. There are much simpler and more fail-safe mechanisms for delivering information and it is too intrusive as proposed. People who want the latest technological innovations to access information on the A.T. should be obliged to provide it themselves and use it in an unobtrusive manner respectful of its impacts upon the experiences of other users.

Some of the comments I have read in response to this new thread give me cause for hope. It may not be the end of the A.T. yet. There are still some who understand its purpose and are fighting for it, but their ranks don't seem to include many in their 20s if what's posted here is any indication of public opinion.

[emerald]

Glad to see what someone else was thinking and writing while I was thinking and writing.

[DanM]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the feedback. To answer a few questions/ set some things straight, I am not a hiker, but I did visit the trail multiple times during my research phase. My initial post was to see what the community thought of my idea, and if you had any useful tips. Now amidst the sea of comments bashing my idea without any helpful tips there were some people who actually helped me define the parameters of my thesis project. To those users (especially prain4u) I say thank you for your help.

This post was to give you guys an idea of what the final design and function is. Now I know I can't please veryone 100% of the time, and I'm not trying to ruin something as cherished and important as the Appalachian Trail. The goal of my thesis was to improve communications and user experiences for newcomers to the trail. I wanted my shelter to become a "destination point" that would encourage more people to go out and explore, to get back to nature.

Once again thank you to those users who gave me some good feedback. This is a theoretical thesis project, there is no way this will be built. If you are just going to bash my ideas and insult me then why bother commenting. If you don't agree with my idea that is fine, but more than enough people have aired their disagreements already and I would appreciate it if you just don't comment.

My thesis design is meant to embrace nature and technology as one entity, because like it or not that is where things are going. sure there will always be nature preserves, but if there is no incentive to drive the youth out of the basement and into the wilderness we will end up with a nation of adults who have never set foot in the woods. It has happened with many other core values and skills, and I hope that the theory of my thesis would help re-connect a "lost" generation with the world they know nothing about.

Sorry to rant on but I think it is the only way to prove that I am not just someone doing an art project. I take industrial design very seriously and am very passionate about my ideas. Hopefully you can see and understand that passion.

Thank You,
Dan

[moondoggie]

Dan,

First, I want to praise you for your effort and the thought put into the thesis. While I don't think the concept is 'right' for the AT, I do believe that it will work at a state park, etc. level, such as a visitors center. Second, I believe the cost factor in this design to be too much for the ATC. Their focus, money wise, is on trail maintenance, and if not for the volunteer labor, that logistically could not be done.
And I know I will recieve flack for this, but most of us come out here for the wilderness experience, so walking up to that shelter would be like walking up to a transmitter tower, for me...I'm just saying

[Spokes]

.................

My thesis design is meant to embrace nature and technology as one entity, because like it or not that is where things are going. ...........

Dan

To me, your thesis statement encompasses man's desire to totally dominate nature at all costs and I'm not so sure this is what Benton Mackaye envisioned. Given your statements assumption, a Starbucks not far from the shelter would be a fitting convenience as well. Oh, the spoils are great.

To radical? Hardly

Now, where's my tent.

[Slo-go'en]

Dan,

Sorry that most of the feedback was negative, but given the original design goal and the final product, the critisim is justified. Negative remarks about you personally aren't, but are a fact of life on an internet forum and need to be ignored.

Your "shelter" design might be more suitable as an information and rest shelter at a car camp ground or a major trail head, but not as a trail shelter. A little research would have shown you there are some standards for shelter design which must be followed.

It is difficult to improve on the traditional three sided lean-to design, but there have been some interesting and effective variations of that design built on the trail. Any radical departure from the basic three sided lean-to design simply would not go over with any of the groups responsable for building and maintaning shelters.

While I for one would welcome a solar powered mobile device charger at shelters and maybe even a wi-fi hot spot, many others would not. There are a number of hikers who feel just the existance of a shelter is intrustive to thier wilderness experiance and all of them should be removed. Imagine what would happen if just one of these fundamentalist wilderness hikers came across a shelter like yours. They would go nuts. A few minutes with a rock and your touch screen PC and solar cells would be history. Belive me, it would not be long before this happened.

[Feral Bill]

Dan--
. We build shelters to last about 20 years before any significant work is required (typically a new roof) and expect them to hang around for at least 50 years with a pretty low level of maintenance.

Cosmo

Adding to this, there is at least one shelter in Harriman State Park (West Mountain) that predates the AT. The basic lean-to design has flaws, but has a long history of working well enough. If it ain't broke...

[shelterbuilder]

...Your "shelter" design might be more suitable as an information and rest shelter at a car camp ground or a major trail head, but not as a trail shelter...While I for one would welcome a solar powered mobile device charger at shelters and maybe even a wi-fi hot spot, many others would not...Imagine what would happen if just one of these fundamentalist wilderness hikers came across a shelter like yours. They would go nuts. A few minutes with a rock and your touch screen PC and solar cells would be history. Belive me, it would not be long before this happened.

Most LCD screens do not function well - if at all - when the ambient temperature drops below 40*F (leave your laptop out in your car overnight when the mercury drops and you'll see what I mean)...electronics in general don't really like the cold (storage batteries, too).

Having designed 2 shelters along the trail in Pa. (and having spent 20+ years trying to keep them from being "dismantled" by users who aren't particularly careful about how they use them), I can tell you that if you build something that doesn't have a full-time staff person assigned to it, then it needs to be as "bomb-proof" as possible; people will think of ways to abuse your creation that you NEVER thought possible. Unattended electronics simply scream: "Screw With Me!" And some folks will...that's just a fact of life.

I'm not trying to be overly negative -- just pragmatic (based on over 20 years of observations). As Slo-go'en said, this might have better applications at a major trailhead (where staff could keep an eye on it).

[Spokes]

...........

Having designed 2 shelters along the trail in Pa. ................ I can tell you that if you build something that doesn't have a full-time staff person assigned to it, then it needs to be as "bomb-proof" as possible; people will think of ways to abuse your creation that you NEVER thought possible. Unattended electronics simply scream: "Screw With Me!" And some folks will...that's just a fact of life.

.............

Shouldn't the question be- "Will it survive the first Boy Scout Troupe"?

[Roland]

DanM,

Have you done a Material Take Off? I would like to see a Bill of Materials, particularly for the roof.