Bad behavior

[Ender]

Any person(s) that could be consdered a problem hiker should result in informing the ATC & the NPS.

I disagree to a point... for sure any "problem hiker" who is breaking the law could be reported. But people who are just being obnoxious? Making noise at 3AM in a shelter in the woods may be the supreme height of jackassery, but it's not illegal. The ATC maybe shouldn't, and most especially the NPS for sure shouldn't, get involved in simple jackassery.

[generoll]

Jack,
Does it matter what I feel is moral or immoral?
I already told you one thing that I think it immoral, and that is public shaming.

Who decides who should be shamed, and for what reasons?
What about ulterior motives of the people doing the shaming?
What measures are in place to ensure people are not unfairly punished?

The internet has alot wrong with it, and this is one of them.
Protecting the AT from bad behaviour does not justify bad behaviour over the internet.

Help me out here. If a persons behavior is not immoral in their eyes, then how is it shaming them to report it?

[full conditions]

This incident goes on my list as reason #3,426 as to why I never stay at shelters.

[Mags]

• Don't let your behavior impose upon other people.
• The hostels, trail angels and other providers helping you out is a privilege and not a right.
• Say Please.
• Say "Thank you".
• Write a thank you card at the end of your hike. Your list is probably big!
• At the end of the day, a smile, being even tempered and having a willingness to meet people part of the way goes a long way to resolving MANY issues..be it on the trail or in 'real life'.

Just my opinion anyway.

[trailangelmary]

I disagree to a point... for sure any "problem hiker" who is breaking the law could be reported. But people who are just being obnoxious? Making noise at 3AM in a shelter in the woods may be the supreme height of jackassery, but it's not illegal. The ATC maybe shouldn't, and most especially the NPS for sure shouldn't, get involved in simple jackassery.

I do not suggest that every time someone acts up to call the ATC or NPS. However, if you see potential for further continued problems on the trail the ridge runners are there to keep an eye out. They are well trained and can have a calm coversation with any such hikers to help influence them in respecting others and the trail. Broken class in a fire ring on the trail we certainly don't want to see. A ridge runner or maintainer has to clean that up. Unless said hikers cleaned it up and packed it out in the morning. That would be good!

[SGT Rock]

For some reason I doubt that someone actually out on the trail will feel the full wrath of the internet.

Call me crazy.

[JAK]

Thanks for that trailangelmary.
It is important that people know who they should contact for such matters.
There should be consequences for such behaviour.

Public shaming on open internet forums is not the solution to such problems. Sometimes it is justified, perhaps, but it is too uncontrolled and open to abuse. It simply devolves into the realm of social bullying, and that can have very serious consequences.

We should all be careful to try and do the right thing, by proper means.
Social bullying over the internet should not be encouraged, for any purpose.

[Nean]

This incident goes on my list as reason #3,426 as to why I never stay at shelters.

Fair enough- but its not a shelter problem per say. I've been to my share of camp grounds/areas that has the same yahoos.

[Ender]

I do not suggest that every time someone acts up to call the ATC or NPS. However, if you see potential for further continued problems on the trail the ridge runners are there to keep an eye out. They are well trained and can have a calm coversation with any such hikers to help influence them in respecting others and the trail. Broken class in a fire ring on the trail we certainly don't want to see. A ridge runner or maintainer has to clean that up. Unless said hikers cleaned it up and packed it out in the morning. That would be good!

I see what you're saying. Though I would still say that the NPS shouldn't get involved unless actual lawbreaking has occurred. But the ATC could be notified for the exactly the points you mentioned.

[Mountain Wildman]

Restless:

Thanx for the kind words and I hate to disappoint you, but not all of my character flaws are in the past!

There's been one perfect person in the last 2,000 years and I assure you it isn't me!

And as for the "changes in my personal life," I hate to say it, but I could REALLY use a Camel right about now. Got one?

Who is the one perfect person in the last 2000 years?

[SGT Rock]

Who is the one perfect person in the last 2000 years?

Lone Wolf. I lead my life by his teachings.

[berkshirebirder]

A few of those offenses are illegal. Wouldn't it be more effective to notify the police, press charges, have the guilty parties fined, and publicize the fact?

If troublemakers knew they weren't going to get away with things, maybe they'd think twice about this kind of behavior. Not if they're drinking too much, of course.

[Ender]

Who is the one perfect person in the last 2000 years?

The Dalai Lama? Elvis?

[Nean]

my grammer and spelling are off today, maybe I should have sleep last night?

We were being yahoos- but were careful not to wake up any neighbors.

[Skyline]

I see nothing wrong with publicly shaming those who do wrong on the Trail, provided we follow some of the guidelines one learns in Journalism 101. Adapted to the AT, of course.

First, any such post should carry the real name and the trail name of the author.

Second, only first-hand accounts should be posted.

Third, only facts that are verifiable--with sources given--should be posted.

Fourth, an effort should be made by the original poster to obtain a response from the "offensive" party, when possible, realizing it is not always possible.

Lastly, speculation should not creep into the thread. Only verifiable facts.

It would probably be a good idea to begin such threads in "Straight Forward," so that posts that drift from the original topic could be expected to be edited or deleted.

[SGT Rock]

The issue with notifying police.

Unless the offense is a felony, they cannot arrest them without a warrant unless they personally witness it. You can go swear a warrant if you want to, but then you are also liable for false arrest should they beat the charges. And that is if the cops are even willing to go chase someone for being drunk and disorderly two or three days back from the fact.

[Cookerhiker]

I haven't read this entire thread and apologize if this has already been brought up. I'm particularly outraged when misbehavior affects/victimizes service providers and local communities. Such actions unfortunately tar all hikers (yeah, I know they shouldn't but they do) and I believe the perpetrators should be shamed if for no other reason to warn other service providers down the trail.

[kanga]

• Don't let your behavior impose upon other people.
• The hostels, trail angels and other providers helping you out is a privilege and not a right.
• Say Please.
• Say "Thank you".
• Write a thank you card at the end of your hike. Your list is probably big!
• At the end of the day, a smile, being even tempered and having a willingness to meet people part of the way goes a long way to resolving MANY issues..be it on the trail or in 'real life'.

Just my opinion anyway.

best post ever!

[kanga]

however, if you are a dumbass in public, then you should be chastised in public.

[corialice81]

however, if you are a dumbass in public, then you should be chastised in public.

second best post ever!