homeless on the trail?

[Connie]

They told me they have seen one guy with a lower number. I'd like to see him.

And to think I waited a few years, buying the "sales" before getting a membership.

I am 62, but I was a mountainclimbing rope leader at 15. I had grey hair start when I was 9 years old, and, I had a high school teacher sponsor me into the college night school program. Maybe only the leaders knew my age.

I look good, too, at my age: I look much younger, people tell me.

The attitude of "city-people" is wrong, as far as I am concerned. Not liking "outdoorsy-types" and not liking "skilled-types" and not liking "innovators" and not liking "thinking-people" who can actually have a conversation. It is a trend of mediocrity. It is very "closed off".

I have complete strangers, from all walks of life, speak to me, just because I seem approachable and friendly.

But they are more few and far between than in the past.

[restless]

Homeless--mentally ill--dangerous people--it sounds as if homeless people are getting a bad rap on this thread. I have been homeless, usually by choice, but am not mentally ill nor dangerous. I spent 12 years building hiking trails and due to the seasonal nature of the job, never had a need to have a "home" except for a tent which I carry on my back or in my car. True, there are very few reasons why people should hole up in a shelter for more than a day or two. And there are people out there who are not hikers who give others the creeps. there are mentally ill people on the trail. There are, unfortunately, dangerous people on the trail. But to adopt an attitude that says homeless=bad goes contrary to what hikers should represent. If a person can't hike the trail unless they have name brand clothing and equipment, then we become the ultra-elitists that others go into the woods to get away from. When we come to a point where we think that all homeless people are bad people, then we should redefine our defintion of hikers. If Grandma Gatewood or even Earl Shaffer were on the trail around some of the posters on this thread, I'm fairly certain they would be listed in the homeless/mentally ill/dangerous category. To the best of my knowledge, they didn't use very much if any of the "correct" brand of gear. Even hikers in the early 70's were known to wear stuff that todays hiker would never be caught dead in. I'm not much of a Bible man, but as I recall there is a line in there that goes "be careful how you treat strangers because in doing so you may be entertaining angels unaware." If the people on the trail offend you because of the way they look, smell, dress,eat,__________________(fill in the blank), then maybe you should find another hobby. There's enough of that attitude in towns. If it's just an occasional person at a shelter, carry a "name brand" tent and go camp someplace else.

I've rambled on enuff.

[TIDE-HSV]

They told me they have seen one guy with a lower number. I'd like to see him.

And to think I waited a few years, buying the "sales" before getting a membership.

I am 62, but I was a mountainclimbing rope leader at 15. I had grey hair start when I was 9 years old, and, I had a high school teacher sponsor me into the college night school program. Maybe only the leaders knew my age.

I look good, too, at my age: I look much younger, people tell me.

The attitude of "city-people" is wrong, as far as I am concerned. Not liking "outdoorsy-types" and not liking "skilled-types" and not liking "innovators" and not liking "thinking-people" who can actually have a conversation. It is a trend of mediocrity. It is very "closed off".

I have complete strangers, from all walks of life, speak to me, just because I seem approachable and friendly.

But they are more few and far between than in the past.

I'm 70, but I didn't join REI until I was in my early 30s. I still have the 800 number memorized. I think having outdoors interests and activities helps with keeping one young in every sense. You can see my avatar. It's a couple of years old, but that's all.

[vonfrick]

I'm a big guy with a beard and tattoos. I also work for REI. Routinely, the suburban housewives who come into footwear at the store will actively turn away from me and pull out their cell phones to avoid any contact with me. If I'm the only one in the department, they may eventually ask for help since they can't get shoes without me. Once they interact a bit, they usually warm up. But initially, their fear or loathing are sometimes barely disguised. I can empathize with your situation.



99% of the folks out there will be fine with you. I suspect HelloMolly would be too. But there are definitely some folks out there that believe the systems of protection that exist in a town should be in place for them in the backcountry as well. I guess it comes as a shock that they are their own first line with any other members of their community as a (hopeful) assist. I suspect when their illusions are shattered they see the boogey man in every shadow. My wife has told me how certain hikers freaked her out when I was right there with her. To me, they were perfectly normal seasoned hikers with typical quirks. But it took her a while to get used to them.

You'll run into all types on the AT. Give folks space. Don't sleep in shelters. You'll pretty much be fine.

It's the kilt that freaks 'em out........

no, i think it's the talking bear

[Connie]

TIDE-HSV, I think we have a better way of life!

[RGB]

Good one, Bearpaw.

It is a real issue for us. I just back from REI, where so far I have the "lowest membership number".

I am very well liked there. The employees know I spend a great deal. I give feedback on products.

Nevertheless, I had an employee who did not know me walk behind me slowly, "lean in" and smell to see if I stink like a homeless person.

Homelessness "issues" are a "big deal" for people who love the outdoors, no matter that we wear expensive brand-name clothing made for the outdoors.

Anyone can easily "spot" the clothing choices of a person who only steps from their car into a building. And those "nice people" are not very nice!

I didn't say it wasn't a "big deal." Simply noting that the topic has been coming up a lot lately.

[DapperD]

It is difficult to discern an alcoholic, drug-addict, and a mentally ill person. I can do it because I was in San Francisco, CA over 18 years of my life.



If uncomfortable because their life repudiates what props up your world-view, shame on you.

I say this, because I sincerely believe "they" (alcoholics, drug-addicts and mentally ill) are the "canaries" of life, showing there is something toxic about the society they are in.

Connie, this is really a cop-out attitude. I mean, really, life can be hard and bad. But just as some turn to drugs, crime, etc...,there are other's who have had bad upbringings and hard times/events occur and have gone on to do good things in life, i.e.helping other's, leading productive lives,etc...You say you lived in San Francisco and can accurately judge people, who they are and their intentions. Well this may be, but I highely doubt it. This thread is about a guy "living in a shelter"(most likely illegally) grubbing food, acting strange, claiming to be a thru-hiker(doubtful), and raising alarm in other's. It isn't because his current gear and fashion's is not in vogue. It is because he is acting in a scary, bizarre way, and the OP felt the duty and responsibility to bring this to the attention of the hiking community and the people that are currently out there. She should be wholeheartedly applauded for her efforts.

[Connie]

The "canary" example, is "the canary in the coal mine". It is an analogy.

I sincerely believe alcoholics, drug-addicts and the mentally-ill show us there is something toxic in the society. They are reacting "first" in society to what is toxic.

Look at that. Our society is toxic. There is a shift to dependence on "experts" and on "officials" who are no better than anyone, and usually a lot worse. I have my information first-hand from people who have those jobs. I was, myself, a federal employee.

I think the rest is misinterpretation. I didn't say that stuff at all.

I do not disagree with what she did. I already said I agree with what she did.

The thread, like practically every thread at White Blaze, moved. In this thread it moved into homeless and the perception of backpackers, and perceptions of society, and appropriate action or non-action.

The fact is, many people in this forum report they have considerable "hiker funk" by the time they reach a hot shower in town. I, personally, do everything I can to avoid "hiker funk" by carrying and using tissues, unscented wipes, Sea To Summit pocket soaps, etal.

I said, to state a different way, I dress well (and, I smell nice) and I have some very unpleasant reactions and nasty looks from "ordinary house-bound city-dwellers" because I dress like a backpacker, kayaker, hiker, bicyclist, outdoor photographer, ...well, not so much kayaker, in town, even though I am clean and wear high-priced name-brand clothing in places where people act like they "love" the outdoors but never do much of anything outdoors: Montana, Oregon, and California.

It is my experience, more and more these days, dressing like a person who dresses for the outdoors brings reactions and responses I used to see done only for "the homeless".

[Bearpaw]

It's the kilt that freaks 'em out........

Ladies love the kilt.

no, i think it's the talking bear

And they love Dewey Bear even more!

I guess some people are just jealous...

[JAK]

Highlands

Well my heart’s in the Highlands gentle and fair
Honeysuckle blooming in the wildwood air
Bluebelles blazing where the Aberdeen waters flow
Well my heart’s in the Highland
I’m gonna go there when I feel good enough to go

Windows were shakin’ all night in my dreams
Everything was exactly the way that it seems
Woke up this morning and I looked at the same old page
Same ol’ rat race
Life in the same ol’ cage

I don’t want nothing from anyone, ain’t that much to take
Wouldn’t know the difference between a real blonde and a fake
Feel like a prisoner in a world of mystery
I wish someone would come
And push back the clock for me

Well my heart’s in the Highlands wherever I roam
That’s where I’ll be when I get called home
The wind, it whispers to the buckeyed trees in rhyme
Well my heart’s in the Highland
I can only get there one step at a time

I’m listening to Neil Young, I gotta turn up the sound
Someone’s always yelling turn it down
Feel like I’m drifting
Drifting from scene to scene
I’m wondering what in the devil could it all possibly mean?

Insanity is smashing up against my soul
You can say I was on anything but a roll
If I had a conscience, well, I just might blow my top
What would I do with it anyway
Maybe take it to the pawn shop

My heart’s in the Highlands at the break of dawn
By the beautiful lake of the Black Swan
Big white clouds like chariots that swing down low
Well my heart’s in the Highlands
Only place left to go

I’m in Boston town, in some restaurant
I got no idea what I want
Well, maybe I do but I’m just really not sure
Waitress comes over
Nobody in the place but me and her

It must be a holiday, there’s nobody around
She studies me closely as I sit down
She got a pretty face and long white shiny legs
She says, “What’ll it be?”
I say, “I don’t know, you got any soft boiled eggs?”

She looks at me, says, “I’d bring you some
But we’re out of ’m, you picked the wrong time to come”
Then she says, “I know you’re an artist, draw a picture of me!”
I say, “I would if I could, but
I don’t do sketches from memory”

“Well,” she says, “I’m right here in front of you, or haven’t you looked?”
I say, “All right, I know, but I don’t have my drawing book!”
She gives me a napkin, she says, “You can do it on that”
I say, “Yes I could, but
I don’t know where my pencil is at!”

She pulls one out from behind her ear
She says, “All right now, go ahead, draw me, I’m standing right here”
I make a few lines and I show it for her to see
Well she takes the napkin and throws it back
And says, “That don’t look a thing like me!”

I said, “Oh, kind Miss, it most certainly does”
She says, “You must be jokin’.” I say, “I wish I was!”
Then she says, “You don’t read women authors, do you?”
Least that’s what I think I hear her say
“Well,” I say, “how would you know and what would it matter anyway?”

“Well,” she says, “you just don’t seem like you do!”
I said, “You’re way wrong”
She says, “Which ones have you read then?” I say, “I read Erica Jong!”
She goes away for a minute
And I slide up out of my chair
I step outside back to the busy street but nobody’s going anywhere

Well my heart’s in the Highlands with the horses and hounds
Way up in the border country, far from the towns
With the twang of the arrow and a snap of the bow
My heart’s in the Highlands
Can’t see any other way to go

Every day is the same thing out the door
Feel further away then ever before
Some things in life, it gets too late to learn
Well, I’m lost somewhere
I must have made a few bad turns

I see people in the park forgetting their troubles and woes
They’re drinking and dancing, wearing bright-colored clothes
All the young men with their young women looking so good
Well, I’d trade places with any of them
In a minute, if I could

I’m crossing the street to get away from a mangy dog
Talking to myself in a monologue
I think what I need might be a full-length leather coat
Somebody just asked me
If I registered to vote

The sun is beginning to shine on me
But it’s not like the sun that used to be
The party’s over and there’s less and less to say
I got new eyes
Everything looks far away

Well, my heart’s in the Highlands at the break of day
Over the hills and far away
There’s a way to get there and I’ll figure it out somehow
But I’m already there in my mind
And that’s good enough for now

- Bob Dylan

[sasquatch2014]

We had a what appeared to be a squatter at one of the shelters near me for a bit and the biggest complaint was that his dog was not well behaved. So maybe we can turn this into a dogs on the trail with homeless people thread. I have not heard back from the caretaker of that shelter as to the condition of the shelter after he moved on but that is often my biggest issues.

I often think if it weren't for my kids I could see my self heading out onto the trail in this manner. I can think of a bunch of other ways that would be worse than being on the trail. the OP did what she felt she needed to do for her safety and there is nothing wrong with that. everyone seems to have their own comfort levels and you need to follow your own gut but maybe in the interim you may say "hello". I have often found in dealing with "these people" that I am only one or two bad turns of luck away from being in their shoes.

Should they be on the trail or in the shelters? Well that depends on if you want to quote the laws and regulations or look a bit deeper and use your own judgement and do your own thinking. when i run into some one who seems a bit "Crazy" at a shelter I put them into one of two groups. the first group is the crazy talk to yourself on the bus type. I settle in for a night of very random and bizarre conversation. It's often like following a 4 year olds stream of consciousness. The next group is the go postal if you don't hold my beliefs crazy and cut you into small pieces while you sleep crazy. In this case I tend to move on and will share with others that I meet that I had a bad vibe or felt uncomfortable. I haven't ever felt so alarmed that I contacted the "man" but that is not to say that the situation would not sometime come to that.

This thread seems to be popping up more and more lately maybe it is a sign to come maybe there is a "canary" that is chirping who knows that the cause is. I have my thoughts but i will not post them here because the thread would be locked quickly if i did. Wink Wink Nod Nod.

[Bucherm]

Bucherm, The neighbors and the local church of any type provided more than any social service agency anywhere. They are pure fiction!

No, they certainly didn't provide "more" service, and what service they did provide came with strings attached(listening to others proselytize). Mind you, saying that the Only Game In Town provided better social services than the non-existent government services is pretty disingenuous.

My parents lived in The Great Depression.

What does that have to do with the price of beer?

Also? I bet that didn't stop them from accepting Great Depression social programs money like Social Security.

That liberal view you have, based on no actual experience,

Ha. I love it. You're right, I have zero experience in these sort of things. I must have completely hallucinated trying to Shepherd my Uncle through rehab, and dealing with evangelicalizing faith-based charities that presented everything through "the devil is trying to tempt you". Real practical advice for a drug addict.

From a broader perspective, I guess I must've completely been tripping from the drugs during those 3 weeks I was working for a government agency in refugee camps in Sumatra post-tsunami, while faith-based charities were demanding that that their religious material be given equal space on cargo airplanes carrying humanitarian aid in. Oh and also can the USN and USAF try to smuggle those Bibles past the Indonesian authorities for us?

gives jobs to a lot of worthless bums collecting a check and not even bothering to show up for their job!

And you got that that was my view on social welfare from that post...how?

[RGB]

The "canary" example, is "the canary in the coal mine". It is an analogy.

I sincerely believe alcoholics, drug-addicts and the mentally-ill show us there is something toxic in the society. They are reacting "first" in society to what is toxic.

Look at that. Our society is toxic. There is a shift to dependence on "experts" and on "officials" who are no better than anyone, and usually a lot worse. I have my information first-hand from people who have those jobs. I was, myself, a federal employee.

I think the rest is misinterpretation. I didn't say that stuff at all.

I do not disagree with what she did. I already said I agree with what she did.

The thread, like practically every thread at White Blaze, moved. In this thread it moved into homeless and the perception of backpackers, and perceptions of society, and appropriate action or non-action.

The fact is, many people in this forum report they have considerable "hiker funk" by the time they reach a hot shower in town. I, personally, do everything I can to avoid "hiker funk" by carrying and using tissues, unscented wipes, Sea To Summit pocket soaps, etal.

I said, to state a different way, I dress well (and, I smell nice) and I have some very unpleasant reactions and nasty looks from "ordinary house-bound city-dwellers" because I dress like a backpacker, kayaker, hiker, bicyclist, outdoor photographer, ...well, not so much kayaker, in town, even though I am clean and wear high-priced name-brand clothing in places where people act like they "love" the outdoors but never do much of anything outdoors: Montana, Oregon, and California.

It is my experience, more and more these days, dressing like a person who dresses for the outdoors brings reactions and responses I used to see done only for "the homeless".

So you're an expert rock climber, a genius, REI's best customer, have good looks and sense of style, are above most of society, and now, a psychiatrist.

Did I leave any of your credentials out? I'm sure you'll let us know.

[Mags]

I look FABULOUS on long hikes...



My shirt is $4, the shorts were $10 (a French company..Tahzhey)...

Not sure if I really love the outdoors or not.....

[leaftye]

No, they certainly didn't provide "more" service, and what service they did provide came with strings attached(listening to others proselytize). Mind you, saying that the Only Game In Town provided better social services than the non-existent government services is pretty disingenuous.

It's hard to take your argument seriously when you write this.

[The Weasel]

Whatever.

TW

[sasquatch2014]

I talked to my wife earlier about this thread and unfortunately she wont let me leave everything and become homeless on the trail at least for a few more years. Hey I did my part and asked as a result I will be forced back down into the basement for a while.

[Low Step]

Obviously, not all drifters and homeless people are the same. The person that the OP encountered sounded like a real concern. Homeless people should be handled on a case by case basis.

[Frosty]

Ha. I love it. You're right, I have zero experience in these sort of things. I must have completely hallucinated trying to Shepherd my Uncle through rehab, and dealing with evangelicalizing faith-based charities that presented everything through "the devil is trying to tempt you". Real practical advice for a drug addict.

From a broader perspective, I guess I must've completely been tripping from the drugs during those 3 weeks I was working for a government agency in refugee camps in Sumatra post-tsunami, while faith-based charities were demanding that that their religious material be given equal space on cargo airplanes carrying humanitarian aid in.

Oh yeah. You think that's great? Well, I sheparded a REAL shepard through rehab, and dealt not only with faith based charities, but also animal rights acitvists. So there!

Plus I spent not just 3 but 4 weeks in an even more important disaster place than Sumatra, maybe even Haiti, where I had not only faith based charities but voodoo spirits demanding equal space, and not only on airplanes, but the SPACE SHUTTLE, too. I worked 25 hours a day, 8 days a week.

Did I leave anything out?

Your turn again.

[Montana]

Oh yeah. You think that's great? Well, I sheparded a REAL shepard through rehab, and dealt not only with faith based charities, but also animal rights acitvists. So there!

Plus I spent not just 3 but 4 weeks in an even more important disaster place than Sumatra, maybe even Haiti, where I had not only faith based charities but voodoo spirits demanding equal space, and not only on airplanes, but the SPACE SHUTTLE, too. I worked 25 hours a day, 8 days a week.

Did I leave anything out?

Your turn again.

My e-penis is bigger than yours? Seriously, what is the point of this post?