Winter Shelter Options

[Smooth & Wasabi]

I would second looking at a mid style. I just retired my 14 year old Black Diamond Mega-Mid for a Go lite Shagrila 3. Very snow and wind worthy, lots of usable space, and very light for a four season shelter.

[Danielsen]

I do a 5-day trip every year just south of finger lakes, right across the border in PA, over Thanksgiving. I leave the Saturday before and hike til Wednesday, this year that is 20-24 November. While not quite winter yet, it is definitely winter conditions. We get snowed on every year and there is always snow on the ground. Nighttime temps were below 0 degrees 3 years ago. I'm always looking for a hiking partner. Over the past 2 years I've gone solo due to my partner backing out both times. I'd rather go with someone. If you are interested this year, let me know.

I'll definitely keep that in mind. It'd be great to hike with someone with some winter experience in the same general area.

[Bare Bear]

Insulation is key. Under you is first consideration, but having a tent around you may be lifesaving. I hiked just under 1000 miles of the PCT (in three sections) mostly winter. Be ready for the worst possible weather and enjoy the solitude.

[Llama Legs]

As you know being from WNY, it gets dark and stays dark for 14 hours in winter. I've always had a much better time camping with someone and sharing a good-sized 4-season tent. Then you can sit-up, play cards, read, and you'll be comfortable in a fleece on top of your bag.

And I've also "roughed it".....

[JAK]

I think it depends alot on the type and size of trees that are likely to be around you, or not.

[Danielsen]

As you know being from WNY, it gets dark and stays dark for 14 hours in winter. I've always had a much better time camping with someone and sharing a good-sized 4-season tent. Then you can sit-up, play cards, read, and you'll be comfortable in a fleece on top of your bag.

And I've also "roughed it".....

For some reason I find the nights during winter here beautiful. There's just this deep sense of blue calm... I'd probably end up hiking in the dark until I really needed to go to sleep.

I'm kind of considering an altered sleep schedule. Sleep in the afternoon and into the evening since it's warmest then (and winter sunsets are rarely interesting), wake around midnight and keep hiking through the coldest part of night for warmth and enjoy the spectacular sunrises our winters seem to always have. Might work, might be awful. I'll have plenty of opportunity to experiment fortunately.

[Mags]

http://www.huts.org/

Hard to carry in a pack..but the wood stove is nice.

(and winter sunsets are rarely interesting),

?



(From my snow cave...yet another winter shelter idea! )




(From a 10th mtn hut. There is probably a glass of wine in the background! )

[DapperD]

I'm interested in doing some winter backpacking on the nearby Finger Lakes Trail, and while I'm used to hiking in this area during the winter, I have no experience camping in the winter. So my question is: what shelter types work well in the winter?

Are tarps feasible?

Are "3-season" tents suitable for non-alpine winter conditions?

I know some love winter hammocking but I don't want to deal with buying overquilts and etc. and while I own and sometimes use a Hennessy, it's generally not my thing.

Would it be better to just stick with my Outdoor Research Bivy? They are made for alpine conditions, of course, and probably are better in winter than other seasons, but the comfort factor is a bit lacking.

I've been looking at ultralight tarptent-type shelters as well. Anyone use these in the winter?

The region I'll be in often sees overall snow cover as deep as a few feet with high drifts here and there, with calm, long-lasting but heavy snowfall being a common form of precipitation. And then sometimes it all melts and the sky turns sleety..

If you've got experience backpacking/camping in the winter with any of these shelter types, I'd love to hear your input.

Not cheap but appears to be possibly made for the conditions you describe:http://www.moontrail.com/hilleberg-soulo.php

[Danielsen]

http://www.huts.org/

Hard to carry in a pack..but the wood stove is nice.







?



(From my snow cave...yet another winter shelter idea! )




(From a 10th mtn hut. There is probably a glass of wine in the background! )

Sorry, I thought I had specified "in my area" and now I see that I didn't. I imagine winter sunsets are beautiful in many parts of the world but over here it's usually just a gray that fades into blue. The sunrises here, as mentioned, are fantastic during the winter.

The situation tends to reverse itself in the warm months.

Sadly, we don't have many mountain huts (or mountains, really) over here either.

[Toolshed]

Hi Danielsen,
Back when I lived on the Niagara Frontier I used to do a lot of hiking in your neck of the woods, The Conservation Trail, the Eastside and Westside Overland trails and of course the FLT.

Since most of any overnights you would do on any of those trails aren't really above treeline, I would say you would be fine with a quality 3-Season tent (that can handle a snow load) or a tarp tent that comes down very close to the ground. I used to carry either a Eureka Timberlite tent (No longer manufactured), a Quest Megamid-like tarp (no longer manufactured) or a bivy sack on my winter trips.

I did get buried under about 6-8 inches of snow in my closed down bivy one very cold night and awoke in a slight panicked state until I got the snow off and out of my breathing hole (it was icing over a bit).

I like the mega tarp for winter, since it was light quick and easy to bury the sides. I was leading a trip one winter weekend and one of the people tenting near me had a dog that kept coming over and digging through the snow to come into my tarptent (It was like a game to him).

The nice thing about the tent was that it offered plenty of snow free space to kick back and relax in. With the Tarptent, I noticed that when camping on the snow everything would slide down my ground cloth to the center pole area (Which always sunk in a little) this was annoying if you kicked up some snow on the edges of the ground cloth and it would eventually slide to your sleeping area (which was usually by the center pole) - I found the easiest way around this was to simply cut a hole in the groundcloth to let the pole pass through.

Since you are in the snow belt where you can easily get a couple of feet overnight and blowing and drifting, I would make sure that whatever shelter you have can handle a load and has extra guyout tabs.
Check out http://adk-nfc.org/wordpress/ to see if they have any winter beginner trips coming up - If you are not member, they usually allow you to go on a trip.
Good luck
Toolshed....

[10-K]

Lunar Duo, 13*, Bear Mt., NY 2009.

No problems - nice and warm in my bag.

[Danielsen]

Thanks for all the tips, toolshed. I'll definitely be looking into getting some sort of tarptent, most likely, if I find the bivy alone doesn't do the trick.

I've always been curious about pitching a tent on snow. How much sinking happens when you move around in a tent pitched over a foot of snow? Or is it usually easy enough to find spots with shallow snow to pitch a tent on?

Also, when the snow is thick are snowshoes necessary in your experience? I'm a decent snowshoer but could probably use more practice, if it's going to be seen as a necessity.

[Toolshed]

I normally use my ski's or snowshoes to stamp out an area. If the snow is more than 3-4 feet deep I might use my avalanche shovel to cut down a couple of feet as well as cut a path over to my kitchen (depending on how long I might be base camping there). but as your body warms the snow under your pad it will compress a few inches and conform a bit like your body. You should also carry a few snowstakes in deep snow in order to anchor your tent.
I usually wear snowshoes in 8-12 inches or more - I do use them in lighter snow for better traction as many times trails can become icy under the snow. Others may not wear them until snow is knee deep. In the ADK's where I do a lot of winter stuff, you need them, crampons or skis on in the winter or face a fine.

[Doctari]

Ive never camped in winter with a tent, but my experience with a tarp says that if you have snowfall, you need to keep up with any snow build up to keep your shelter from collapsing on you. 1st time: My tarp was pitched steep, & I often knocked the snow off, yet I woke up to my tarp nearly on my face (hammock ridgeline prevented that) the next morning. This was from the snow that had built up around the base of my tarp, slowly pushing it in (& down) on me. Next trip with snowfall, I kept the base clear* & no issues. When I winter camp, I carry a small snow shovel, a child's toy that I got at Big Lots but it works well enough for backpacking.



*with a tarp & hammock that was easy I simply rigged my tarp bottom 4 - 5" off the ground giving the snow somewhere to go.

[kayak karl]

*with a tarp & hammock that was easy I simply rigged my tarp bottom 4 - 5" off the ground giving the snow somewhere to go.

same here. never tented in snow, but hammocked. i used 10-12" off ground. same idea. snow would drift under. snow on tarp slid down till it built a wall and blocked wind.

if i went to the ground i would tarp to the ground, but use a tree to tree ridge line.

[The Solemates]

I'll definitely keep that in mind. It'd be great to hike with someone with some winter experience in the same general area.

just learned over the weekend he's gonna back out this year as well over thanksgiving and we're gonna go in october. so...the offer is still there because i will be solo in november.

[Danielsen]

As soon as I've got some more information about work and classes (sometime in the next couple weeks, hopefully) I'll let you know.

[Danielsen]

New question, especially for those of you who've used a non-freestanding tent on deepish snow: Do normal tent stakes work alright? If not, are there any particular snow-stakes that would be recommended? Does snow hold better than I expect or do you have to find a rock to pound them down into the actual ground?

[Marta]

It depends on the snow. Down south here, snow is often on the warm side and easy to pack around stakes.

Deep, cold powder is something else again. Pounding stakes into frozen, rocky ground is a recipe for bending lots of stakes.

One thing I've done successfully is to wrap the line around a good-sized piece of wood and then pack snow around that. For soft snow you need a lot of surface area for the snow to grab onto.

PS--You do want to make sure that you can undo in the morning whatever you did the previous night, or you'll be cutting your lines, or leaving your tent behind.

[Ironbelly]

Adding to what Marta said. Best way in deep powderis to dig a T style trench, in the _ part put a stick, snow stake, but stick preferablly. Then tie onto the middle of the stick with your guy line and run the line down the | part of the T. You don't even have to pack the snow down around it, but it does help, but will make breaking camp in the morning even harder because it will probally be a block of ice.. This holds quite well.... it is a common tactic used by mountain units in the military for rapelling, and is a somewhat common emergency rapell hold worldwide. It will hold alot of weight without any give. The bigger the stick etc the better, but choose your stick wisely!

Snow stakes do work decently well unless it is really loose power. Like Marta said, you can easily loose the "stick" and line so make sure that you have a decent amount of guy line with you in case you are forced to cut due to it being one large block of ice.