What's in a 50 lb. Pack?

[Clark Fork]

The 'rents were always telling me you can learn from a bad example as well as a good example. I have been reading up on light-weight and ultra-light hiking. All makes a lot of sense. There is really a lot of info out there on what to bring. On the other side of the coin, what is commonly part of a pack that should not be brought?

I don't really see there is much sacrifice from going from a 6 lb pack to a 2-3 lb. pack nor do I see that going to hammock or a tarp tent poses much of a hardship in terms of comfort and protection from the elements. There is general disdain for the 50 lb +/- pack. There seems to be a good 20 lb. to 25 lb. spread between the the pack weights. Just what makes up that difference? It seems to me pin-pointing that difference would be very instructive. Are these hikers carrying 50lb packs, bringing too many clothes, too much in cookware, stoves, cast iron dutch ovens? What about hearing from someone who does pack heavy? What do you pack and why?

Regards,

Clark Fork in Western Montana

[MOWGLI]

Are these hikers carrying 50lb packs, bringing too many clothes, too much in cookware, stoves, cast iron dutch ovens? What about hearing from someone who does pack heavy? What do you pack and why?

Regards,

Clark Fork in Western Montana

My pack often weighs 40 pounds with 4# of water and 5-6 days of food. I am working on making it lighter, but the big 3, my pack, tent & sleeping bag are all fairly heavy. For me, its the cash investment that is holding me up. If I get a sudden infusion of cash, I'll probably buy some newer lighter gear.

I once heard it say that if you carry a heavy pack you'll be uncomfortable while on the trail, but more comfortable in camp. Likewise, if you carry a light load, you'll be more comfortable on the trail, but less comfortable in camp. In that respect, I like to bring an extra pair of socks or two, and in the winter, and extra pair of camp capilene long underwear (top & bottom).

Its all a matter of trade offs. If you are willing to carry a 40-50# pack, it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

[Frosty]

I don't really see there is much sacrifice from going from a 6 lb pack to a 2-3 lb. pack nor do I see that going to hammock or a tarp tent poses much of a hardship in terms of comfort and protection from the elements.

There are trade-offs. I have a 6 pound Dana external frame pack that is a dream to carry. Formed aluminum wings under the hip belt keep weight firmly on my hips. Little weight on my shoulders. 50# feels better than 30# in my GoLite. At least standing still. My knees feel it only after a day's hiking with a heavy pack. After two days I have a general soreness in the legs. I believe that the lighter setup is better for day after day thruhiking, so that's how I'm doing it. But there is a huge tradeoff in comfort.

Same with sleeping pads. I have a blue pad, 24 ounce inflatable pad and a 64 ounce inflatable pad. I sleep like dream on the big one, wake up stiff on the light one, and cannot sleep at all on the blue pad. Sacrifice comfort for weight reduction. Go with the lightest on which I can sleep

A tarp is servicable shelter, but you cannot call it as comfortable as a nice roomy double walled tent.

And on and on.

Believe me, I've been though all the issues. I only made the change to lightweight backpacking over the last two years. Every piece of gear I gave up grudgingly. FOr my 2005 thruhke, I finally bought a pack that will carry only 30#, so I HAD to make changes. I'm still cheating, though, as I have a lightweight belly bag which isn't physically part of the backpack and so is not subject to the 30# limit.

I also pushed my start date back to March 20 from March 1 to save a little on winter clothes gear.

[MOWGLI]

I also pushed my start date back to March 20 from March 1 to save a little on winter clothes gear.

What were you able to leave behind by moving your start date 19 days? It's still gonna be cold in the mountain and in the Smokies in March & April.

Just wondering.

[Pencil Pusher]

It's all cumulative. Little things here and there add up. It's when you start cutting off the portion of the map you know you won't need, to save weight, that you've gone overboard on the idea
For winter hiking, you could leave behind the bulky fleece, knowing that you hike warm and when you get to camp and start getting cold, hop in the sleeping bag.

[A-Train]

A lot of the difference is doubling of items and comfort stuff. These are things that most inexperienced backpackers start with AKA most folks starting a thru-hike. These things are extra clothing, too much food, and comfort items. Its all about what makes you happy. Some people bring a book, and a radio and a journal etc. I had all of them. Some folks think that the extra weight it dumb. But if you need your music or reading to stay sane, well then, its clearly necessary. Likewise, I use a thin foam pad or a ridgerest. I'm young and its comfortable enough for me, especially since my hiking style usually translates to long days where I'm tired and don't care. For some folks, having a full length thick thermarest is essential to getting a good night sleep. Without a goodnight sleep you're worthless hiking the next day. Same goes for warm clothing and sleeping bag. I'm a lightweighter, but one area I know I CAN'T skimp on is clothes. The next guy might be fine with half as much stuff, but not me.

Basically, you'll figure out what you need and what makes you happy. Everyone is different. Gear lists are great for ideas, but duplicating another persons gear list exactly wouldn't make sense since we're all different. So if you need all the cushy stuff, well then carrying a 6 pound pack is a good idea and investment. But if you're gonna go light with gear, you might as well have the 2 lb pack to carry it in. You'll figure it all out after a few weeks

[grrickar]

I had my pack down to about 32 lbs with 3 days food and water when I started my first section hike, but by the end of the hike I realized there were things that I brought that I really did not need to. Those items will be left at home next time.

For the temps we were hiking in, some of my gear was overkill and I could have went with a more lightweight bag that compacted down better. I carried maps, cell phone, fire starter sticks, and enough Dr. Bronners soap for three trips (I did put it in a smaller bottle, I just did not realize how concentrated it was). I never pulled the maps out (although I think hiking with them is necessary because you never know when in an emergency you need to get out of the woods quick). The fire starter sticks were never used, and I gave those to a couple in sassafras shelter the last night of our hike. The cell phone was nice to covertly talk with my wife and daughter, and I think that I will continue to carry it for that reason (I kept it off except when I was using it, and I was respectful enough to walk 200 yards into the woods instead of yapping on it in the shelter in front of everyone). We overpacked food each time, not by much, and my take on that was I'd rather have a few items extra just in case than to go hungry.

I had more than I really needed in my pack at 32 lbs, so I have no idea what people carry to get pack up to 50. Either they are carrying heavy gear, or they packed the kitchen sink.

I agree that it is up to each person what they pack - some don't mind a heavier pack. After 3 days I wouldn't even realize I had my pack on. I came back with some ideas that should lighten my pack by about 4 lbs next time.

[Frosty]

What were you able to leave behind by moving your start date 19 days? It's still gonna be cold in the mountain and in the Smokies in March & April. .

I'll carry my 20* bag, for one thing. Initially, I'd hoped to carry this bag Mar 1, but was quickly talked out of it. The next lower-rated bag I have is 0*, and it is much heavier.

Other things would be mid-weight thermals, vice heavy weight, and not worry about traction. And a shell vice my winter parka.

There are no absolutes, of course, and no date at which the temperature goes form 15* to 40*, but starting in Feb (or March 1), the chances of very cold weather, or bigger snows, in GA is enough for me to plan for them on the earlier date, and tough it out on the later date.

Ditto the Smokies. Yeah, it can be cold and snowy. Yeah, it is likely to be less cold and less snowy in April than in March. And if I do get blasted by inordinately cold weather, I can take comfort knowing it probably would have been even worse the month before.

[Singletrack]

A 6 lb pack, 6 lb. tent, 4 lb. sleeping bag, 2 lb. pad, 5 lbs. kitchen ( stove, fuel, pots), 5 lbs. clothes ( including town clothes), 4 lbs. miscellaneous (knives, flashlights, etc.), a gallon of water, and enough food for 5 days. It's easy to get to 50 lbs. It's hard to get to 20 lbs.

[Frosty]

It's easy to get to 50 lbs. It's hard to get to 20 lbs.

A master of understatement

[Doctari]

My March 1997 pack list. Don’t have the original; this is what I edited it down to AFTER the hike. So weights were most likely higher. Can't believe I carried all this for an 8 day trip.
12’ x 12’ Tarp 2 lbs 2 oz
6’ x 6’ ground cover 12 Oz
Tarp accessories 2 Lb [rope, heavy duty stake, 6 other stakes]
Shelter 4.8 Lbs +
Fuel & bottle 1Lb +
Sierra cup 4 Oz
Mug 6 Oz
Water in Nalgene bottles (2) 4Lb 12 Oz
Dromedary Water bag 5 Oz
Pot & lid 10 Oz
Spoon, pot lifter, repair kit 4 Oz
Stove 1 Lb 2Oz
Kitchen 8 lbs
Belt pack 18 Oz
Emergency blanket 3 Oz
Water filter 1 Lb
TP, shovel, candle 7 Oz
Clothes: wool jacket & pants, spare shorts, 2 extra T-shirts, 2 pr underwear, lined nylon jacket. 96+ Oz
Sleeping bag & stuff sack 68
1st aid kit 1 Lb +
Binoculars 4 Oz
4 Chem lights 5 Oz
Compass, whistle, thermometer 2 Oz
Rain coat 6 Oz
Books & maps 8 Oz
Pack & rain cover 87 Oz
Plus a lot of other junk not on the list & I can’t remember what it was, I seem to remember a fairly heavy camera & I bet the first aid kit was heavier than the stated 1 Lb.
So: weight without food & water (always carried 2 Ltrs water) about 42 Lbs, add 4 days food @ 1.5 LB per day plus 4 lbs water = 52 Lbs, or there about. FSO was about another 5 Lbs, my boots were 2.25 Lbs EACH (“heavy duty work boots”)

BTW: new pack weight = about 21 Lbs, FSO = 24 Lbs counting “Real” hiking boots (1.5 Lb ea)

Doctari.

[sprocket]

...."I don't know, but I been told, It's hard to run with the weight of gold.....
the other hand, I heard it's said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead...."

IMHO it's like MOWGLI16 says: "carry a heavy pack you'll be uncomfortable while on the trail, but more comfortable in camp. Likewise, if you carry a light load, you'll be more comfortable on the trail, but less comfortable in camp."

My pack weighs in with food for 5-6 days and 3 liters of water @ 49#. Some of the "extra" weight is definitely camp comfort oriented.....like my coffee press....and related coffee and sugars etc.... Others are the extra (read: warm and dry) socks I MUST have to sleep in, "extra" baselayers, a decent first aid kit and a good array of spices to cook with (I'm sorta into Indian foods and curries on 1-2 wk+ trips)
The point is, you really have to decide if you want to hike "major" miles lightly burdened, and with some semblance of a spring in your step, or if you'd like to hike with "good" food, good comfort both asleep (good pad and bag) and awake, but maybe not so many miles....at least not in theory. Remember that there were those before, that managed the trail with REALLY hefty bags and even canvas rucksacks etc....70+ lbs.! So...Hike your own hike, and to hell with the "Hard Core" mentality of skimping to the N-th degree. It's great to be able to hike like that....maybe just to say "see, it's hard and painful, but I can be a minimalist too!" but I'd prefer to have a good time and enjoy......

[Brushy Sage]

My pack weighed 38 lbs (with food and water) when I checked in at the Amcalola Falls State Park, and the ranger said "that's good." Apparently he had seen several over that weight. I hiked for a while with a woman whose pack weighed around 70 lbs at the start. She went very slowly up the trail and managed to get the weight down as the weeks went by. I could have gone with less fuel, less water, less food, and less clothing. But who knew?

[hikerdude]

I fill my backpack with helium gas so I have 0 gravity on my Nike fireflys, I just have to let the helium out if there's a breeze,, or I end up in the Atlantic with my Quantum card.
That wasn't really a questions was it? Huh? But that really is your answer sissy.

[verber]

There seems to be a good 20 lb. to 25 lb. spread between the the pack weights. Just what makes up that difference? It seems to me pin-pointing that difference would be very instructive. Are these hikers carrying 50lb packs, bringing too many clothes, too much in cookware, stoves, cast iron dutch ovens? What about hearing from someone who does pack heavy? What do you pack and why?

This evening I tried to recreate my heavy-weight packing list. I am pretty sure I am missing a few things (it's about 5lbs-10lbs too light). But what I remember is:

Base weight was 37lbs -vs- 13lb today
Carry weight was 59lbs -vs- 27lb today
Skin out weight was 65lb -vs- 31lb today

What are the primary differences:

1. I brought a second pair of outer wear because what I wore didn't dry as quickly as what I wear today

2. In my heavy-weight days I carried more (and slightly more tasty) food.

3. Otherwise, the main difference is what I carry today is lighter... and that I have figured out how much fuel, etc to bring for the cooking I am going to do.

4. Not showing up in this comparision, but I would typically have a larger saftey margin in my heavyweight days. If I had pushed the margins on my modern trip as I often do, I would have been carrying 2-3lbs less weight.

My comparision lists is found at:

http://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/...avy-light.html

[Pencil Pusher]

Like I heard from Aggie, a pint's a pound the world around. Carrying a gallon or three liters of water? Aye carumba, are water sources that few and far between?

[grrickar]

My advice to anyone getting into backpacking is to consider the usefulness of an item before packing it. If it serves only one purpose, ask yourself if you really need it. After you get back from a trip, ask yourself was the item worth the effort it took to carry it. Always think of how something could be lighter, or maybe used in a way that you never thought of before. Read posts in these forums, that is how I learned - else I would have had a 50 lb pack on my back my first trip out.

It is amazing what you are willing to do without once you realize you have to carry it up a mountain (or several) on your back...

[Mr. Clean]

take your gear on an experimental hike for several days to see what is working and what isn't. You may decide that 50 lbs is what you need. I seem pretty consistent at 35 lbs, but their is still stuff that I could toss or change.

[Peaks]

Like I heard from Aggie, a pint's a pound the world around. Carrying a gallon or three liters of water? Aye carumba, are water sources that few and far between?

I very seldom carried more than a quart.

[MOWGLI]

Carrying a gallon or three liters of water? Aye carumba, are water sources that few and far between?

It all depends on the year. I hiked in '00 which was a very wet year, at least south of New England. I carried only as much water as I needed. Funny thing, I was chastised on Trailplace by one indivividual for saying that I only carried 1 liter at times. I was told that I was being "dangerously unsafe". Of course that fellow had never hiked the AT before, and dropped out by Damascus in '01.

In '99 & '01 there were bad droughts, and most of the springs in the NY/NJ area were dry, as well as some of the streams. I can't speak for other areas of the trail. In drought conditions, you "camel up" which means drinking a liter or two of water, and then fill all your water containers to the rim. Remember, the best way to carry water is inside of you.

The bottom line is that the weather determines how much water you can carry. I'm sure the folks in '03 were pretty care free about water sources.
Carrying the data book (or WFs book) and maps will help you keep an eye on available water sources. For those who are planning a hike in '05 (who have not done much backpacking), you'll soon learn that the issue of water availablilty is something that you think about a good bit of the day on the trail. The intensity of those thoughs is usually directly proportional to water availability. The less water is available, the more intense the thoughts.