God! My knees!!!

[The Scribe]

Happy Thanksgiving to all

Any advice for sore knees?

Ever since Attroll and I did the Caratunk to Monson stretch over Labor Day weekend, I have been plagued with sore knees. Up and down stairs, turning on my knees, lifting my legs to get to the gas or clutch. Those are the worst of times.

On our trip, I was in agony coming down Pleasant Pond Mountain yet had no trouble with Washington about a month earlier. It took a lot of Vitamin I and a walking stick to get to Monson. Along with several talks with my knee to "cut the @#$%."

I go to the gym regularly, 4-5 times a week. I have no trouble there (4 miles on the treadmill at 4.1-4.2 mph and up to 15% elevation, and 15 min on a bike if there's time). I can do that 4-5 days in a row without issue, but when I have to climb the stairs from the locker room to go home, OUCH!

I know I have some issues with my left knee (the one that bothered me on Pleasant Pond Mountain). It clicks when I go up stairs (or boulders) and there is a numb area on the outside. My right knee, however, can hurt just as bad but has no other symptons.

I really enjoyed getting back into hiking this year and getting into the AT community. I am already reading and dreaming about hikes for next year. So if I need a PT routine, or a strengthening routine, or even if I need some work done on my left one, I want to get going on it so I can be ready when this Maine wintah is done.

Can anyone offer advice? Exercises? Vitamins? Natural supplements?

And thank you.

pcm

[Moose2001]

Knee problems suck!! I totally understand where you’re coming from. My knee problems took me off the trail in 2001.

My first suggestion would be talk to a good doctor that specializes in either orthopedics or sports medicine. Make sure there are no structural problems with your knees. If that checks out, talk to them about getting a referral to physical therapy to learn what exercises can strengthen your quads. Typically PT will work on your quads to help stabilize your knees.

You can also try glucosamin to help “lubricate” your knees. It does help some people with knee problems.

You can also talk to the Doc about something like Celebrex. I went on VIOXX in 2003 and it made a world of difference. This class of meds works to control the swelling and inflammation in your joints. It’s amazing just how well VIOXX worked for me in controlling the swelling and joint pain in my knee. I wouldn’t suggest this course for everyone but only as a last resort.

Also, if you’re not using hiking poles, I strongly recommend them. They do make a difference in how much pressure gets placed on your knees.

Good Luck!!

[Footslogger]

Hard to tell exactly what you did to yourself and whether this is a progression of a pre-existing knee condition. But, based on your symptoms you need to be taking a non-steroidal anti-inflamatory drug and would probably benefit from some physical therapist who is knowledgeable in sports medicine. Long term, you ought to consider starting a regimen of Glucosamine. A lot of the formulations contain Chondroitin. The benefits of Chondroitin have never been proven but the Glucosamine has been proven to rebuild and regenerate cartilage. The pain and clicking you feel/hear is most likely cartilagenous in nature. Cartilage has a notoriously bad blood supply and therfore heals rather slowly.

If the pain persists and you get no relief from Motrin or Rx non-steroidals then you might need to consult an orthopedist/sports medicine physician and consider having an MRI to evaluate the knee joints.

Hope that helps ...

'Slogger
AT 2003

[TDale]

Hie thee to thy doktor! Then stop off at wallyworld for some glucosimine. It won't cure all ills but it does help.

[Mr. Clean]

I agree with everything Moose said.

[The Scribe]

Did some research on Glucosamine last night. I'd heard about it before.

No, I don't have poles but that will change I imagine. Uncle Ben passed along a hiking stick to me at Bald Mountain Brook lean-to and it helped greatly. It has gone everywhere with me since.

Issues with my left knee go back a ways. Over 10 years. I didn't mention that at times if I kneel on it the right (wrong) way, it feels like I'm on a 220 volt line. Right up my leg.

Being in education, I always looked for summer work back then and for 5-6 summers I delivered 15,000 pounds of ice a day, 6 days a week.

Anyways, thanks for the tips. I will be stopping by the Dr's today to make an appt. What is so weird is that I can walk forever it seems like, but I sigh when I get home and look at the five stairs up to the deck.

Cheers all.

PCM

[MOWGLI]

Did some research on Glucosamine last night. I'd heard about it before.


PCM

If you choose to start taking this product, make you start doing so 3-4 weeks BEFORE you start hiking. It will not provide immediate relief.

[The Scribe]

LOL
Mowgli

While my mind is out in the woods, my reality is all the stairs I have to climb every day. I think I will start it today when I head out for a Turkey Day supply run.

Thanks for the tip.

PCM

[steve hiker]

I've used glucosamine and am still using it, and can swear it's made a big difference. Not as much as using hiking poles, but allows me to hike basically without knee problems.

However, I'm wondering if there are any hard scientific/medical studies that prove glucosamine's benefits. A few months ago, Airferret who is a med student cited studies in which one control group was given glucosamine and the other a placebo, and they both reported the same results. Which to me, sounds like no real benefit. Which contradicts my own experience.

Overall, the best thing I've found for combatting knee problems is two hiking poles. Tremendous benefit. Get the strain off them knees.

[tarbubble]

when i jacked up my knees several years ago, poles made hiking possible again. of course, mine were so swollen and sore that i hobbled around on crutches for a while. my knees are much better now (it's been about 6 years), but it took about 3 years for them to stop getting sore every time i went for a long walk. be pushy with your doctor, mine flat out didn't care (and my insurance sucked) so i just did what i could for myself. good luck!

[Mr. Clean]

I started taking glucosamine/condroitin for my knees, and noticed a big difference after 3-4 weeks. Then I started using poles and noticed another big difference. I've done back-to-back day hikes here in the Whites of about 1500' elevation with absolutely no knee pain recently, and hope to start increasing my elevations soon.
Lots of good snowshoeing this winter coming up. It's actually easier on snow since there are no boulders to step up onto, just slopes of snow.
Also, try doing leg excersises. While sitting in a chair (at work ), lift your legs out straight in front of you and hold for ten seconds. Repeat all day. This will build up the muscles around your knees and help stabilize them.

[Jaybird]

Any advice for sore knees?

Ever since Attroll and I did the Caratunk to Monson stretch over Labor Day weekend, I have been plagued with sore knees. Up and down stairs, turning on my knees, lifting my legs to get to the gas or clutch. Those are the worst of times.......etcetcetc........Can anyone offer advice? Exercises? Vitamins? Natural supplements? ................

Yo pcm25

Happy Holidays....yep, GLUCOSIMINE tabs are a good thing....start the regiment about a month before your hike. My bud, TeePee, had knee surgery & takes the glucosomine now as a daily dose. He swears by it.

I've gone the excercise route...i'm 50 now & the knees arent getting any younger...so, i ride the bicycle for an hour or so each day @ least a month before a serious hike. I walk too...on the treadmill & around the neighborhood when weather permits.

ALSO, a knee brace might be in order....are you using 2 trekking poles??????????????????....that is also highly recommended.

good luck with your future hikes!

[Ridge]

Eat lots of Jello. Made from animal cartilage.

[Tractor]

pcm. I notice you took a lot of the vitamin I when you had that knee trouble. I used to do the same but realized, a couple of years back, that I did more harm than good. I would take a couple in the morning, for instance, and mask the pain a bit. When the pain would come back I would take a couple more and so on and so on. The more vitamin I, the greater the pain had to be before it was unbearable, simple enough but I was tearing the heck out of my LCL's. I should have slowed down or bailed out early on that trip.

In the extreme, about 3 years back, I had taken 18 in one day. Now maybe 2 or 3 in a week.

I now pace myself better, use insoles, pack lighter and am considering a pair of hiking poles instead of the stick. Have tried glucosamine and agree it should start at least a couple of weeks before a hike...

[flyfisher]

Everyone has different experiences. However, for this 50 year old, after a near disasterous first section hike with knee pain, I did four things:

- Two poles - especially coming down hills
- Glucosamine - 1 gram in the morning and one in the evening year-round -- while I am hiking I take 4 grams a day.
- Small steps coming down hills - almost dancing my way down
- Going up "steps" on hills and coming down them, I always alternate one knee and then the other - I used to come down endless steps and climb long climbs using a single knee for the hard work - usually the one that felt the best. It sometimes starts to hurt the good knee when stressed like this.

[c.coyle]

I noticed a big improvement when I dropped 25# last winter.

Pain when you lift your leg to use the gas or clutch? I might want to get that checked.

[Bandana Man]

I learned the hard way that stretching is very important. My 2003 section hike ended a week early because of a bad left knee. I went to an orthopedic (sp?) surgeon, who referred me to a physical therapist specializing in sports injuries. The PT said I had "iliotibial band friction syndrome" and showed me several stretching exercises that cured the knee pain after about 6 weeks of treatment. The PT said I should add stretching to my work-outs and when hiking to prevent re-injury.

Here's a website that shows three of the stretching exercises I learned from the PT. The first exercise was the best for my condition! I also learned the second and third exercises, but none of the others on this website.
http://www.nismat.org/ptcor/itb_stretch

A knee problem can be any number of things. You probably should get checked out by an orthopedic surgeon and/or PT who specializes in sports medicine, especially knee injuries. Luckily, my HMO referred me to an orthopedic surgeon and PT who are familiar with treating knee injuries because they have treated some of the Orlando Magic NBA players.

The stretching worked for me and I take no drugs (glucosomine, etc.) Hope you find relief!

[Newb]

ah, ye ole knee pain. I've been having pain on the front outside of my knees for years and only after a CAT scan did the doctor determine my problem. It seems my patellas don't stay inside that nice little groove that God made for them. When I flex my kne the patella moves to the outside. The result is wearing down of underside of the patella and the bone it's moving over. Apparently this is a common congenital disorder.

Aside from major reconstruction to move the tendons on the front of my shin over a bit, I have to suffer. Glocosamine has made a big difference for me, as well as wearing braces on both knees (available at the local CVS or Walgreens) to keep the patellas stabilized. Also, hiking poles are miraculous.

[ToeJam]

Thanks for the glucosamine tip, and also the stretching advice. I admit to being slack about stretchng which in hindsight is pretty dumb! I got some GNC glucosamine with chondroiten last week at drugstore.com and it was B1-G1 free and free shipping as well. I decided to go for the lil more expensive stuff since others had expressed that name brand CAN make a diference in these types of things.

MAN those things are BIG to take tho! We shall see how they work, figure they can't HURT anyway....

[Moose2001]

Newb - I have the exact same problem you have with the knees. I'm surprised your doc didn't talk to you about doing PT. The mistrack of the knee can sometimes be caused or aggravated by weak quads. One of the "standard" courses of action is to be referred to a PT for work on the quads. By strengthing your quads, it helps to pull the knee back into track and hold it in place. I'd suggest talking to your doc about a referral to a PT. Might not cure your problem but it may improve it somewhat.