Socialism - Was: Leave your religious message in towns!

[Blue Jay]

Unions are for people who can't amke it on their own.

No unions were the last line of defense, prior to the corporate buy out of the United States. We lost and are too stupid to realize it. We are vassels, serfs to our lords. Actually, in some ways worse, the serfs of the middle ages had to submit less of a percentage of their crops than we do of our wages or profits. They still get our sons for their wars, now they get our daughters too. Some day we'll overthrow them again, however most Americans love being slaves to the corporations. They even pay a lot of money to wear their logos.

[weary]

No unions were the last line of defense, prior to the corporate buy out of the United States. ....

Well, maybe. But I tend to think of unions as protection against incompetent management. Among my final duties as a member of the Guild's executive committee was saving the job of a circulation manager (he's the guy who recruits and supervises the allegedly "independent" contractors who deliver the papers). Management had wanted to fire him for what I thought were frivolous reasons.

A few weeks ago I got a company newsletter that is sent to retirees. On the cover was the guy whose job I had helped save. The headline named him the "employee of the month." The story went on for several paragraphs about his innovative and efficient ways of accomplishing his job -- most were things that prior managers had tried to fire him for doing.

The newspaper has probably won more awards than any paper of its size in New England. The reason? I like to blame one of the strongest unions of any newspaper its size in New England.

Weary

[ripple]

Ripple, how do you amke your living?

I work for a town, managining the lab in the waste water plant. Could have been union, but decided I could keep my job by becoming an asset. I could negotiate for myself.

Oh and sorry about the spelling mistake "make" , you see I have a job I must do, and really don't have time to worry about a simple typing error. Don't know is you were trying to poke fun, or if you are just a plain ARS!

[MOWGLI]

I have been on both sides of the fence. My first 5 years with NY Telephone/NYNEX was spent as a member of the Communications Workers of America (CWA 1105). I walked the picket line twice and was rewarded with nice contracts including great health care benefits.

My last 14 years with the company was spent as a Manager, with several of those years spent supervising Union employees. I spent the 4-month work stoppage of '89 climbing poles and fixing phone troubles during that lengthy work stoppage.

Its not real simple any way you look at it. Verizon would stomp all over their Craft employees if they were not Unionized. Then again, you have some folks in the Unions (IBEW & CWA) who don't do squat, and give the Union a bad name. Then again, there are plenty of Managers in that category too.

How many Cops or Fireman couldn't make it on their own without a Union? Plenty I bet.

How about teachers? Yeah, people love to beat up on the teachers. IMO, our education problems have more to do with bad parenting than anything else. Here in the South, the education problems have more to do with people's reluctance to fund education. That's why I send my daughter to a private school I can hardly afford. They cut education by $21 million here last year. Then the fools will complain when they can't attract employers to hire their uneducated children.

[MOWGLI]

Oh and sorry about the spelling mistake "make" , you see I have a job I must do, and really don't have time to worry about a simple typing error. Don't know is you were trying to poke fun, or if you are just a plain ARS!

Just having a little fun Ripple. Sorry it was at your expense.

[smokymtnsteve]

A DAY IN THE LIFE OF JOE REPUBLICAN

Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with
water to prepare his
morning coffee. The water is clean and good because
some tree-hugging
liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards.

With his first swallow of water, he takes his daily
medication. His
medications are safe to take because some stupid
commie liberal fought to
ensure their safety and that they work as advertised.

All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his
employer's medical plan
because some liberal union workers fought their
employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe gets it too.

He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs.
Joe's bacon is safe to
eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to
regulate the meat
packing industry.

In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo.
His bottle is properly
labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the
total contents because
some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what
he was putting on his
body and how much it contained.

Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath.
The air he breathes is
clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal
fought for the laws to
stop industries from polluting our air.

He walks to the subway station for his
government-subsidized ride to work.
It saves him considerable money in parking and
transportation fees because
some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public
transportation, which
gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with
excellent pay, medical
benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation
because some lazy liberal
union members fought and died for these working
standards. Joe's employer
pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't
want his employees to
call the union.

If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll
get a worker
compensation or unemployment check because some stupid
liberal didn't think
he should lose his home because of his temporary
misfortune.

It's noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so
he can pay some bills.
Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC
because some godless
liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from
unscrupulous bankers who ruined
the banking system before the Great Depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage
and his below-market
federal student loan because some elitist liberal
decided that Joe and the
government would be better off if he was educated and
earned more money over
his lifetime.

Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father
this evening at his
farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the
drive. His car is among
the safest in the world because some America-hating
liberal fought for car
safety standards.

He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third
generation to live in the
house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because
bankers didn't want
to make rural loans. The house didn't have electricity
until some
big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't
belong and demanded
rural electrification.

He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His
father lives on
Social Security and a union pension because some
wine-drinking,
cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of
himself so Joe
wouldn't have to.

Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns
on a radio talk show.
The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and
conservatives are
good. He doesn't mention that the beloved Republicans
have fought against
every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his
day.

Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government
liberals ruining our lives!
After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone
should take care of
themselves, just like I have."

[MOWGLI]

How many Cops or Fireman couldn't make it on their own without a Union? Plenty I bet.

I meant to say, how many cops & fireman could make it on their own.

[ripple]

Just having a little fun Ripple. Sorry it was at your expense.

It's all good!

[ripple]

Steve

Do much stereo typing?

[Rain Man]

Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government
liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone
should take care of themselves, just like I have."

Steve,

You hit that nail squarely on the head!!!!

Some guy said "No man is an island."

Rain Man

.

[smokymtnsteve]

Steve

Do much stereo typing?

Nope, I'm very hard of hearing and so I don't own a stereo

I enjoy the sounds of silence!

[Tha Wookie]

Steve,

Good post. But unfortunately the people who should read it are too busy being told how to think right now.

[Skeemer]

No one said that unions never did any good. But you give them (I assume since they only back liberals) far too much credit for far too much. Wasn't it our old friend Tricky Dick that pushed for and signed the bill guaranteeing cost of living increases to social security recipients?

You mentioned Workers Comp...in Ohio it is a scam. No one, and I mean no one. in the union has a bad back that resulted from anything other that an "injury at work." The system is corrupt and plagued by greedy liberal trial lawyers.

Look, take all the credit you want for all the good things in the past. Employers would just be happy if workers today came to work and earned their pay. Fact is they don't, and your liberal friends defend them and whine when the jobs go elsewhere.

BTW, is it possible to be an environmental liberal and a fiscal conservative? I do agree the Cuyahoga River would still be on fire if it weren't for strong enforcement of environmental laws. I saw these laws being enforced during both liberal and conservative administrations. And, it took both sides to pass the laws and programs you referred to that made Joe's life so great.

[ripple]

Steve,

Good post. But unfortunately the people who should read it are too busy being told how to think right now.

Or these people you speak of, are working earning their pay. The people being told what to think are the masses following union.

[smokymtnsteve]

to my conservative hiking friends I would suggest that you read

Jack London's PEOPLE OF THE ABYSS

a study of the conditions of the working class of edwardian england,

and then listen and look around at the world today,

and see if you can find any similarities, you may be surprised.

[Needles]

You're right and I retract my statement about stockholders being paid first. I guess what I was trying to point out is that unions continue to demand more and more while members are contributing less and less.

Do remebr though, the union members, even if they are contributing less and less (and I don't know that I agree with that statement) are still contributing something to the success or failyre of the company, the vast majority of stockholders contribute absolutely nothing. The shareholders owe it to the employees, who are responsible for any and all profits the shareholders reap, to treat them fairly and pay them well. How much would that stock be worth without the employees? Nothing, zero, zilch, nada, someday maybe this country will realize that wealth comes from the bottom up, not from the top down. Treat the guys at the bottom as well as is possible (and if a company makes $10,000,000 in profits one year and drops to $9,000,000 in profits the next that does NOT mean the company is loosing money no matter what the guys on Wall Street say) and things will get better for the guys at the top. Treat the guys at the bottom poorly and sooner or later they will get rid of the guys at the top.

[smokymtnsteve]

it seems today that productivity is UP ..which means that the workers are producing more...however this gain in productivity has not been reflected in the workers wage.

[weary]

....Employers would just be happy if workers today came to work and earned their pay. Fact is they don't, and your liberal friends defend them and whine when the jobs go elsewhere.
....

Well, I've been involved with working and observing the workforce for six decades. Skeemer's comments based on my observations are sheer nonsense. Yes. There will always be a few that abuse the system -- both managers and workers, and probably in equal numbers.

I went to work at age 13 in 1942 for a national company that had a small operation in Maine. (Yeah, I lied about my age.) Until I "retired" in 1991 (from earning money, not from working), and since, I've watched these matters more closely than most.

The vast majority of the people I have worked with and have observed have been diligent and honest. I have worked for and with many extremely dedicated people. I can count on less than two hands the slackers -- those who have abused the system. A few in fact have been incompetent. Given the way managers are selected in this nation, gross incompetence, not surprisingly, has tended to predominate among the managers.

Before the conservatives launch their attack, please remember it's difficult to be an incompetent piece worker, or an incompetent assembly line worker, or even an incompetent newspaper reporter. Such are exposed and gotten rid of quickly. It's harder to detect an incompetent manager who has learned the rudimentary rules of surviving. Where do you suppose the term "brown noser" came from?

Weary

[MOWGLI]

It's harder to detect an incompetent manager who has learned the rudimentary rules of surviving. Where do you suppose the term "brown noser" came from?

Weary

Right on Weary! My 19-year experience in the telecommunications industry has led me to the same conclusion.

[Rocks 'n Roots]

During my carrer, I spent years in labor relations across the table from the UAW. They defend tardiness, absenteeism, theft, sabotage and featherbedding and even assault.

Are you referring to the union or the management?


I worked for a non-union major corporation one time. Try it sometime and then look at your complaints. They told the workers that while they were in high profits they would not outsource any departments. The workers were literally breaking their bodies with short crews and rotten equipment during the 90's boom. The next year they had their highest profits in the company's history and followed it up by outsourcing all of those departments right on down the line. The chairman received a grotesque tens of millions dollar package for doing that. I permanently injured my leg on one of those pieces of equipment. It pains me every day.