I'm Worried

[Mother Natures Son]

I got an e-mail from the folks who run the Iron Master's hostel at Pine Grove state park. (Central PA Conservancy) As things stand, they need $70K+ more by spring to reopen the hostel. With the recession not even close to being over, does anyone think they can raise the money in time?

[kayak karl]

that's just the way things are going right know. maybe someone will pick it up in foreclosure and let them run it.

[Luddite]

I would think a hostel would do alright even though the economy sucks. Hikers still need a bed and a shower.

[kayak karl]

I would think a hostel would do alright even though the economy sucks. Hikers still need a bed and a shower.

my guess is they are stuck in a balloon and rising costs. may have happened with or without recession, but with no details......who knows.?

[Lone Wolf]

Hikers still need a bed and a shower.

it's not a need. it's a want. i prefer my tent

[TOW]

I got an e-mail from the folks who run the Iron Master's hostel at Pine Grove state park. (Central PA Conservancy) As things stand, they need $70K+ more by spring to reopen the hostel. With the recession not even close to being over, does anyone think they can raise the money in time?

nope! not unless some wealthy hiker wants to donate the needed funds will it happen......

[Toolshed]

I would think a hostel would do alright even though the economy sucks. Hikers still need a bed and a shower.

But any appreciable number of hikers really only hits the area late May to early July. there is little sustainable traffic for the other 10 months.

[max patch]

Hostels come and go.

And if this one has to spend $70,000 in order to collect $25 per hiker then I think the writing is on the wall.

[Jester2000]

Well, they may say they need $70,000 to reopen the hostel, but in reality they need $70,000 to fully restore the building, and those aren't exactly the same thing.

I doubt bringing the building up to code and making it livable would cost that much, especially considering the volunteer help they could get.

I suspect that in the end the CPCs plans have more to do with it being an "educational facility" and a "community center" than a hostel.

[fredmugs]

Maybe if they can take out a $300,000 mortgage they can get bailed out.

[peakbagger]

In order to make it a legal hostel that is in compliance with health and safety laws, $70k is cheap. There are very few hostels along the trail that I encountered that were even close to meeting even minimal standards. For those who ran on strictly donations, they might get away with not getting sued if there is a problem, but for a facility that charges and needs insurance, they have to meet life safety code and that usually involves fire walls, possibly sprinkers and central fire alarms and multiple means of egress. If there is a kitchen, there are a lot of other requirements. Now throw in ADA (americans with disability act) compliance, generally required for public accomodations and the price keeps rising.

[Jester2000]

In order to make it a legal hostel that is in compliance with health and safety laws, $70k is cheap. There are very few hostels along the trail that I encountered that were even close to meeting even minimal standards. For those who ran on strictly donations, they might get away with not getting sued if there is a problem, but for a facility that charges and needs insurance, they have to meet life safety code and that usually involves fire walls, possibly sprinkers and central fire alarms and multiple means of egress. If there is a kitchen, there are a lot of other requirements. Now throw in ADA (americans with disability act) compliance, generally required for public accomodations and the price keeps rising.

Since you write "if there is a kitchen," I'm going to presume that Iron Masters wasn't one of the hostels you visited. It's the stated goal of CPC to "restore" the building, and that goes to my point about how much they need to reopen the hostel. They certainly don't need to restore the building in order for it to be an operating hostel.

You are absolutely correct to say that $70,000 would be cheap, if you were addressing a building that had never been used as a commercial hostel, and thus had never been inspected. But this was a hostel being run by AYH, and I know it must have passed inspections in the past. How do I know that? Because a few years ago friends of mine, while on a volunteer project at the hostel, worked to bring their electrical system and their fire exit lighting up to code at the request of the operators.

The building already has multiple marked means of egress, proper number of extinguishers, etc. It's not like a hostel that was being run out of someone's house. It also has multiple handicapped accessible entrances, parking spaces, bathroom, and all services offered (bunkhouse, dining area, kitchen) can be accessed by wheelchair.

Because it is an old building, I suspect the weak point as far as inspection goes is the electrical, and that's expensive to deal with. But, having been an AYH hostel in the past, it must have passed inspection previously.

I also note that on August 14th the CPC was having a volunteer day described by them as the "Final Push to Restore the Ironmaster's Mansion," requesting help with "landscaping, priming, taping, sanding, spackeling, and touch-up painting." Sounds like what you do at the end of a project, not the beginning. So what's changed? Maybe they had an inspection and didn't pass? I don't know.

But before I donate any money to this project, I'd certainly want to know exactly what the needs are, how the money will be spent, and where in their priorities AT hikers fit.

[Adayak]

It's going to take a very generous donation from someone to keep this hostel open. I'm not sure if they has been addressed in the past, but are there any grants that can be applied for? Or public funding? Or the Pepsi Refresh Project haha?

[IronGutsTommy]

yeah their best bet would be to make full financial records clear and available, as with any bailout. then they should hit up facebook and twitter, the way most charities and people gain sponsors
but yeah, hostels come and go. since most hiker traffic is for half a year at best, these places need to multitask. the hostels that seem to do best incorporate an outfitter, short term food store, something, anything, to make them viable to their local community. in thin times, whether it be winters or resessions, businesses need local support to stay afloat.
most hostels dont offer anything to the local community. most residents dont need a bed or shower, and if they have relatives visiting surely they put them up at their house or a proper motel/hotel
sounds like this hostels time is short. sad but usually prevented. I am a chef in michigan, and work near CMU college. in the summer businesses suffer. residents, workers and businesses pool their seasonal resources and plan ahead for the thin times. those that dont, disappear

[Andy CPC]

Hello, my name is Andrew Hart and I’m with the Central Pennsylvania Conservancy. I want to provide an actual voice from the Ironmaster’s Mansion project so that everyone in this forum can be informed of our goals and struggles. The PA Dept. of Conservation and Natural Resources asked CPC to take the property over after the Delaware Valley Youth Hostel Organization, operating the mansion closed it in May, 2010. It is our intention to open it as: a small hostel for hikers, scouts and other groups; an educational facility; a history center; and a community resource for meetings, weddings, reunions, etc. to ensure sustainability. However, we are struggling with the initial funding and absolutely cannot do it by ourselves; we need your support and generosity to help us preserve this beautiful Mansion.

[Andy CPC]

The Ironmaster’s Mansion was in major disrepair, but due to the generosity of donors, volunteers and Lowe’s, this project is well underway. The mansion will charge hikers, so peakbagger you are absolutely correct that the building must be brought up to code and that insurance must be purchased. In addition, it is also right to mention that hikers alone cannot provide sustainable revenue for the Ironmaster’s Mansion to operate as Max Patch notes. Therefore, part of the Mansion will be used for weddings, meetings, events, etc. as well as an educational center. As many of you know the Mansion not only provides showers, bathrooms, meals, but also serves as a mail drop for delivered supplies as an additional convenience to hikers. It will also offer a place to clear your head and explore with the proposed history center and underground passageways.

[Andy CPC]

Jester2000, In terms of the “Final Push To Restore The Ironmaster’s Mansion,” it was a way to have most of the volunteer work completed including painting, landscaping and minor repairs. However, the kitchen renovation will require licensed plumbers, electricians, among others. The windows and possible alternative forms of energy must be completed by trained professionals.



In terms of the cost of this project, the $70,000 number comes an early estimate. The kitchen was estimated to cost $25,000, Fire Alarm $10,000, Windows $30,000 and $5,000 for paint. The most recent estimates from the kitchen cost of $30,000 to renovate and bring up to code and the new estimate for the energy efficient windows at $40,000. An educational/history center (est. $25,000) and the possibility of exploring alternative forms of energy will add cost, but may be covered with grants. The paint ended up costing close to $9,000! I'm sure you all have started projects and soon realize there is more time, money and sweat involved.

[Andy CPC]

While we all know this is a tough time in the economy, any donation would be greatly appreciated. We need everyone’s help to preserve the Mansion for the hikers and the community. Please visit our website for more information and if you wanted to consider offering financial help: www.CentralPaConservancy.org.

[Andy CPC]

Misconseptions = Misconceptions

[Jester2000]

Andy --

Thanks for the info! I do have a question regarding the final item I listed in things I wanted to know. Where do hikers fit in the CPCs overall plans? For example, how many hikers will the "small" hostel accomodate? I know it is early in the process, but do you have any idea what they plan to charge?

Finally, and this is foremost in my mind as far as where hikers fit:
Most weddings take place in April, May, and June. Many AT Section hikers hike in PA during this time. If there's a wedding, meeting, or event is the hostel portion of the building closed? Will there be any place (online) where we'll be able to find a schedule of events that will disrupt or shut down the hostel?

Thanks!