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  1. #201
    Registered User weary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ aka Teej
    Oh, sure he has:


    The at-l (with the exception of Weary) became bored with Roxy's act long ago. Roxy doesn't have the stones to post on Trailplace the way he does on the at-l, so he's decided to bring his one-trick-pony side show here to Whiteblaze. As I've said before, it's evident from his posts he has no intention of contributing positively to any of the forums he joins, his obvious intent is to be a negative influence. Perhaps one day, if he hikes on the AT and meets with actual members of the AT community, he'll clean up his act. Until then Whiteblazers will just have to put up with the stinking piles of horse manure Roxy's leaving behind along the Information Superhighway.
    RnR is not the most skilled debater, but he does read what people post, which is more than his critics can bring themselves to do. RnR has told us several times that he has thru hiked the trail and worked as a trail maintainer and maintenance leader for years. TJ. If you have evidence this is wrong, say so. This would be a more constructive discussion if you could avoid making up alleged quotes and expressing falsehoods.

    I happen to think that the debate over what MacKaye did or did not say in his initial Appalachian Trail proposal is beside the point. But having read the only biography of MacKaye, some the the letters MacKaye and Myron Avery exchanged, and numerous discussions of MacKaye's life, it is obvious to me that RnR is quite correct about what Mackaye came to believe.

    My practice is to ignore as long as possible these squabbles. They remind me of third grade bullies on a school playground ganging up on a kid they sense may be vulnerable.

    Weary

  2. #202

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    If enough people burned down these housing tracts in the backcountry(suburbia, you get the drift) that folks became deterred from building homes in these types of rural locations, do you believe that years down the road that these arsonists would be looked upon as folk heroes by a larger segment of the population?

    I don't believe we look at the Patriots(Revolutionary War) as criminals?

  3. #203
    Registered User orangebug's Avatar
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    The Patriots/Rebels did not attack private property of fellow Americans. They attacked the King's Army and government agencies. There was confiscation of Tory landholdings and propery, especially after Loyalists left the area to await the expected British Army victory. The complications of those property claims were part of the delay between Yorktown and the Treaty of Paris.

    There were instances of destruction of property held by Patriots. The British Army was never as efficient as Gen Sherman. They got their point across which motivated Patriots toward violent actions directed at the King and his minions.

    Remember, there has been no environmental group willing to take responsibility for these arsons. No environmentalists have endorsed these arsons, except for a few anonymous punks here. Johnny Appleseed didn't cut down trees - he created a resource. Arsonists who kept blacks "in their place" remain criminals long after their robes have rotted. Arsonists who destroyed rural black churches rot in prisons today.

    Rationalization of criminal conduct based on a political agenda is still only rationalization.

  4. #204

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    Quote Originally Posted by weary
    RnR is not the most skilled debater...
    That's because he doesn't debate, Weary. To debate is to exchange questions and answers. Much like you, Roxy refuses to answer direct questions about the nonsense he posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Weary
    RnR has told us several times that he has thru hiked the trail and worked as a trail maintainer and maintenance leader for years.
    Unlike you, I'm not obsessed with reading all of Roxy's posts. I find them quite boring. I do know that he first came to my notice on years back on Wingy's ATML where he was asking confused beginner questions about the AMC's White Mountain hut system and Baxter Park. If he's hiked the A.T. since then, he apparently found easy Internet access along the Trail. Recently he added that Trail Maintainer icon to his Whiteblaze posts, and I asked him:

    Quote Originally Posted by Weary
    I notice you have the Trail Maintainer icon in your posts, Roxy. Care to share with us what maintaining club you've joined, and when and where you do your maintaining work? Must be a long trip for you from southern Florida. From your posts it's not clear if you've ever been on the Appalachian Trail at all, but if you really do work as a trail maintainer I hope that contact with the trail community benefits you in the future.
    He didn't respond. But since you claim to have read every single post Roxy has ever made and commited them all to memory, perhaps you will share with us all you know about Roxy's "thruhike" and "trail maintaining".

    I have tried asking Roxy questions. Here's several from a 2002 at-l post:

    Quote Originally Posted by TJ
    Think about it, R&R. Have you ever posted a trip report? No. A gear list? No. An introduction? No. A bio? No. Trail condition update? No. A book review? No. A Trail advocacy alert? No...
    But how often do your posts refer to 'Wingfoot' or 'Trailplace'? Can't you
    see how much of your world revolves around sitting at your keyboard typing
    about how the at-l doesn't care about the Trail? Typing about how we are
    beneath your standards of trail ethics? Typing about how great WF and TP
    were? Typing about how you know more about MacKaye than any of us? Typing about how anyone who disagrees with you is doing so just because of 'personal reasons'? Can't you see?
    One last question, R&R. If my opinion means so little to you, why have you
    become obsessed with it?
    He never responded, of course.
    Teej

    "[ATers] represent three percent of our use and about twenty percent of our effort," retired Baxter Park Director Jensen Bissell.

  5. #205

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    This shouldn't read 'Originally posted by Weary', it should read that it was I who posted it as a response to a Roxy post:

    Originally Posted by TJ aka Teej
    I notice you have the Trail Maintainer icon in your posts, Roxy. Care to share with us what maintaining club you've joined, and when and where you do your maintaining work? Must be a long trip for you from southern Florida. From your posts it's not clear if you've ever been on the Appalachian Trail at all, but if you really do work as a trail maintainer I hope that contact with the trail community benefits you in the future
    Teej

    "[ATers] represent three percent of our use and about twenty percent of our effort," retired Baxter Park Director Jensen Bissell.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by dperry
    Funny, I don't recall the trees calling the police, or the beavers filing papers, or the deer hiring lobbyists. Applying the concept of "rights" to non-sentient beings is a fairly empty exercise, I'm afraid.
    I assume you made a simple mistake. Sentient means having consciousness. Surely you don't mean that beavers and deer are not aware of the loss of their habitat.

    They may not call the police or a lawyer when a logger bulldozes their forest, but they call Earth First! and Greenpeace.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by lobster
    If enough people burned down these housing tracts in the backcountry(suburbia, you get the drift) that folks became deterred from building homes in these types of rural locations, do you believe that years down the road that these arsonists would be looked upon as folk heroes by a larger segment of the population?

    I don't believe we look at the Patriots(Revolutionary War) as criminals?
    If you were British as some on here appear to be then the answer would be yes.

    If enough people would stand together in acts other than violence there would be no need to burn housing tracts and potentially murder individuals.

  8. #208
    Registered User Rocks 'n Roots's Avatar
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    Ah TJ, another round of well-reasoned Trail support from you. Your own record of trying to deny Wingfoot any credit while those with credible involvement strongly say otherwise - and your persistence even after Mr Leutze irrefutably confirmed what I was saying - are signs of dishonorable intentions. Where exactly did you show us where YOU had any credibility in making those accusations? You seem to have a long record of blundering in and being completely wrong - including attacking Weary for getting a land acquisition acreage figure wrong a few years back and then turning out to be completely wrong about that as well. Yet, this doesn't seem to affect your attacks or alter them in any way.

    Take myself for instance. I worked with the NY/NJ Trail Conference for 10 years initiating projects and putting hundreds of hours in per year. We built Wildcat Shelter. From this TJ surmises that I've never even been to the Appalachian Trail. Somebody sounds reality-challenged here, sorry.

    He also seems to be focused on attacking Warren Doyle and helped drive him off this site.

    I simply don't have to prove myself to any gadflys. People who know the Trail will see the AT truth in what I write as Weary shows. Others have some kind of personal bent that disallows them no matter what they're shown. The reason I post what I post is because these people seem to be vying for an accepted place on the Trail. Worse than that, they seem to be trying to establish their ill-informed profile as the Trail norm. As if speaking about the Conservancy side was bad manners. Even when ATC sends the unavoidable message, they remain unaffected. As Weary says, the real culprits here are knowledgeable members who know this and say nothing. This norm allows people to ask "why should the AT need any more land?" without being challenged.


    This shouldn't be used to draw meaningful AT discussions into personal attacks or cause board dislike for AT advocacy. The topic is deforestation and sprawl vs the AT's purpose. Not law enforcement as a means of avoiding this. I guess if you can't answer the points you attack the poster. I accept your humble apology TJ for mistaking my Trail involvement and credentials.

    I hiked the AT south from Katahdin in August 1985 reaching Unionville, NJ in an ice storm in november. I went and got a worker job in a book warehouse for the winter and hiked back up to Unionville starting at Springer on March 23rd 1986. One of the highlights of my life that lead me to go join in physical trailwork. A hobby I found much more fulfilling than blindly attacking people who support the AT as some seem to prefer...

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by dperry
    Funny, I don't recall the trees calling the police, or the beavers filing papers, or the deer hiring lobbyists. Applying the concept of "rights" to non-sentient beings is a fairly empty exercise, I'm afraid.
    I am not advocating violence and threats as a means to protect our Earth but I do agree that it NEEDS to be protected. They do have rights. Some of the best advice or insight I have ever heard came Chief Seattle.....

    "All things share the same breath - the beast, the tree, the man... the air shares its spirit with all the life it supports. "

    "Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect."

    If more would realize we really are all connected this discussion would never be needed in the first place.







  10. #210
    Spirit in search of experience. wacocelt's Avatar
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    I apologize for not being able to respond as promptly as some, I have no internet access at the moment. The money that would be spent on frivolous things like that is being saved to pay my wife and I's way into Tracker School, which teaches the absolute basics and more for living in complete unison with our planet.
    Now, as for the folks that have literally spammed this thread with support for the arsonists and insults for anyone who criticizes them, I may be a Red-Neck but I guarantee, when it comes down to it, I help more people in one day than you probably even think about in a year. I stop to help people changing a tire, EVERYTIME I see someone that I think needs help, I give rides to people I see walking in the rain, I loan money to complete strangers without worrying about being payed back.

    Now, I may be mistaken, you could very well be in the running for Sainthood, though when you can't take off your blinders and accept the most simple of common sense that two wrongs do not equal a right, I find it hard to believe that you pull your head out of your ass for more than enough time to log on and insult people you know nothing about, for reasons that are absolute nonsense.

    I don't believe in the Grid and it's inherent ills, but i'm not out endangering anyone to try and make my mark. My wife and I are doing what we can in the time we can to reintroduce ourselves into nature completely. You may call me a Red-Neck, but I'm doing something everyday to make things better, instead of driving a BMW from the suburbs out to protest whatever flavor of the month cause happens to be waving it's banner.

    Your comments about lynch mobs are equally as ignorant. Most of the opinions I've read here state that IF they caught the person, they would deal with them then and there, which is completely different than say, getting a bunch of buddies together to firebomb empty houses. A bunch of patchouli smelling tree hugging hippies setting fire to houses is ABSOLUTELY no different than a bunch of bigots getting together to burn down a colored church when noone is in it. I bet you wouldn't be beating your chest and praising that type of 'terrorism would you?

    Terrorism is terrorism, hate is hate, ignorance is ignorance. My passion causes me to heat up when I read crap like this and I vent, as I'm sure the majority of the arson supporters are, but we all need to realize that by contributing to the madness is still madness and very few people will open thier hearts and minds with scare tactics and force, thats what the governments and corporations that you so loathe do and it doesn't work for them.

    Ahh well, I doubt anyone is even going to read this entire post, considering how long the thread is, but I feel a little better anyways, I hope you fine folks can do the same.
    Everything is exactly as it should be. This too shall pass.

  11. #211
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wacocelt
    Your comments about lynch mobs are equally as ignorant. Most of the opinions I've read here state that IF they caught the person, they would deal with them then and there, which is completely different than say, getting a bunch of buddies together to firebomb empty houses. A bunch of patchouli smelling tree hugging hippies setting fire to houses is ABSOLUTELY no different than a bunch of bigots getting together to burn down a colored church when noone is in it. I bet you wouldn't be beating your chest and praising that type of 'terrorism would you?

    Terrorism is terrorism, hate is hate, ignorance is ignorance. My passion causes me to heat up when I read crap like this and I vent, as I'm sure the majority of the arson supporters are, but we all need to realize that by contributing to the madness is still madness and very few people will open thier hearts and minds with scare tactics and force, thats what the governments and corporations that you so loathe do and it doesn't work for them.
    Right on!

    Ahh well, I doubt anyone is even going to read this entire post, considering how long the thread is, but I feel a little better anyways, I hope
    you fine folks can do the same.
    If it makes you feel any better, I did.
    SGT Rock
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    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
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    NO SNIVELING

  12. #212
    Spirit in search of experience. wacocelt's Avatar
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    Yes Rock, it does, Hooah! Be well all, I'm out for a few more days.
    Everything is exactly as it should be. This too shall pass.

  13. #213
    Registered User weary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Rock
    If it makes you feel any better, I did.
    As did I. I read posts that present a perspective based on reason and facts. I try to avoid those that simply seek to find excuses to criticize someone else.

    Weary

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by wacocelt
    Ahh well, I doubt anyone is even going to read this entire post, considering how long the thread is, but I feel a little better anyways, I hope you fine folks can do the same.
    I did also. Very good post! Thank you.

  15. #215

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    Quote Originally Posted by wacocelt

    Now, I may be mistaken, you could very well be in the running for Sainthood, ...Terrorism is terrorism, hate is hate, ignorance is ignorance. My passion causes me to heat up when I read crap like this and I vent, as I'm sure the majority of the arson supporters are, but we all need to realize that by contributing to the madness is still madness and very few people will open thier hearts and minds with scare tactics and force, thats what the governments and corporations that you so loathe do and it doesn't work for them.
    Now I may be mistaken, but didn't you attack a thruhiker a few years ago?

  16. #216

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    Quote Originally Posted by weary
    As did I. I read posts that present a perspective based on reason and facts. I try to avoid those that simply seek to find excuses to criticize someone else.

    Weary
    http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...9850#post69850

    http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/newr...wreply&p=69845

  17. #217
    Registered User weary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Clark
    "I knew you were going to say that! " ]
    Kimmie. You are far to young to have a closed mind. Practice thinking.

    Weary

  18. #218

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    Quote Originally Posted by weary
    Kimmie. You are far to young to have a closed mind. Practice thinking.
    Weary just said my post was based on reason and facts! Thanks, grandpaw!

  19. #219
    Registered User weary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Clark
    Weary just said my post was based on reason and facts! Thanks, grandpaw!
    You missed a word, Kim. I said I "TRY" to only open posts based on reason and facts. Given the nature of the media it's easy to slip up. But nevertheless thinking truly is a valuable thing to attempt.

    Weary

  20. #220
    Registered User Dances with Mice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weary
    You missed a word, Kim. I said I "TRY" to only open posts based on reason and facts. Given the nature of the media it's easy to slip up. But nevertheless thinking truly is a valuable thing to attempt.
    That's not at all what you said. Thanks again!
    You never turned around to see the frowns
    On the jugglers and the clowns
    When they all did tricks for you.

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