Evironmental Terrorism In Maryland

[Israel]

1) for the record, developers do not build houses (typically). Home builders build houses. Developers build streets and install sewer lines.
2) Keep in mind that property that goes up for development is typically on the open market. People who protest development usually have the option of placing the property under contract and buying it themselves. You cannot blame a private land owner for excersizing his right to sell his land. If you don't want to see development, put your money where your mouth is and buy it yourself. The best way to preserve land is to buy it and do nothing with it.
3) Urban sprawl. I am 100% against urban sprawl. Reality is though that developers and builders provide a service that is demanded by the people/market. Trust me, developers and builders would not do what they do if they could not sell their product. Supply and demand dictate that developers develop and builders build. Please keep in mind that you would not, unless you are the rare case that built your own home and installed your own street, you would not be sitting in a house with electricity and be warm and dry if it were not for a developer and a builder. What if your home was firebombed by people that thought the tearing down of the land you now live on was the best thing to do since the forest was torn down to build your home? The hypocracy of the eco-terrorism people and their supporters is ridiculous. Think it through people...who the heck built your house and who the heck built your street?
4) If you truly are against urban sprawl, and I suspect everyone is and I think we all should be to some degree, I encourage you to get off your rear end and get involved in your local land planning. Most places have zoning departments that oversee land use. I encourage you to look into better land use concepts.
I am 100% for high, high density. Creating large lot zoning, by it's absolute design, magnifies and increases urban sprawl. Doing the opposite, creating areas of high density and combining it with green space does a much better job of accomplishing what you are talking about. Unfortunately, people somehow think that density is the culprit and that larger lots is the way to discourage building and nothing could be further from the truth. I am a strong believer in creating zones of high density, say 12-14 units per acre, in the approrpiate areas. The catch 22 is that we live in a free country and the reality is that land owners will all, or at least most, will cash in on the financial investment they have made. Developers pay the big bucks that these land owners want. Unless states or conservation organizations come up with a way to get the landowners the money they want it will go to the highest bidder. Creating development easements whereby the development rights are assigned to a trust is about the only way you are going to stop the development. Most land owners that place their large tracts into a conservation designation for taxation purposes do it as a cheap way to hold a long term investment for it's invetible sale to the highest price the open market will allow.
As well, creating and mandating large lot zoning actually makes the gift and dream of homeownership beyond the realm of affordability of most people. You would then create a situation where most people could no longer afford to purchase affordable housing, which leads to many unpleasant results as there is no better way to create a healthy and safe community than to have a high percentage of homeownership. How are you going to assure that you have affordable housing if you enact legislation that requires 5 acre minimums? That $150,000 house just became a $400,000 or more. What do you do with people that own land that is less than 5 acres in size? What if someone just bought a 3 acre tract? What if you own a 1/2 acre tract? I say go the opposite direction and the results will be more what you actually seek (i.e. greenspace)...high density all the way!! Even if you do the typical subdivision and not a new ubanism development (http://www.cnu.org/about/index.cfm), at least create conservation subdivision ordinances whereby you can build the same # of units allowed by a typical zoning designation but then clump them together on smaller lots and leave the bulk of the property untouched. Everyone wins...the developer has less dirt to move and pipe to lay so it is cheaper, and the area retains open/wild lands from then on as it is in a platted subdivision and deeded to the HOA and covenants restict it's sale.
I am a big believer in new urbanistic development and I encourage everyone here to look into it...make the density high, the lots small, the homes tasteful, and create even more land in the public realm for all to enjoy. Density is not the enemy the public often perceives it to be, if density is developed properly.
We as a culture need to find, for many different reasons on many different levels, a different way to live than the cul-de-sac subdivision environment we have created and bought into. It is an unnatural way to live. A new urbanism approach to development actually gets us going back to a more natural way to live, a healthier way to live.

Ok, off my soap box now. Sorry to be so long winded- I spend a lot of time in my work dealing with these types of issues and welcome anyones comments on any of the above.

[U-BOLT]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt; you really aren't comparing the environmental fight to the WW2 holocaust, are you?

In today's environment where humans are on the verge of paving and polluting ourselves off the face of the planet, that's a pretty good comparison. The deaths we will sustain over the next 100 years will make the Nazi holocost look like small potatos.

[Rocks 'n Roots]

There was only one family in the incompleted project. Most of the houses were under construction.


I have to confess, if this was the race track I would find it very difficult to say it was entirely wrong. In this case though, it's obvious that it can't help environmentalism. Even if no one is really listening or doing anything about deforestation and sprawl anyway. This is just a security matter on the way to total development as seen in Atlanta...

[smokymtnsteve]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt; you really aren't comparing the environmental fight to the WW2 holocaust, are you?

Life death Opressors opressed...the question mr uris ask is WHEN does a people begin to fight? No this burning of houses is not a good thing ,,,but nethier is affluenza destruction of our planet...this crap that is being built (like gwinnett county ga) is some horrible, stuff,,,not fit for human habitation,,,thereby rendering ever larger areas of my home planet earth unfit for human habitation....

this so called eco-terrorism is not terror at all...but a defensive strike against an aggressor. the terrorism to EARTH was commited by the developer.

I Fear that we will be seeing more of this type of behaviors as populations continue to grow and areas fit for human habitation begin to shrink. if the human race is to survive,,,many changes will have to be made in the way people view production and resource management...americans leave the largest eviornmental footprints...we must reduce our trampling of the planet.

[Israel]

this so called eco-terrorism is not terror at all...but a defensive strike against an aggressor. the terrorism to EARTH was commited by the developer.

Steve, as I mentioned above, I assume you either don't live in a house on a paved street or you are eminently preparing to move from said house and into an animal skin teepee that you hunted, killed, and built yourself, right? Reality is that a developer and/or builder, only does what "we" really want them to do. Maybe this particular builder and developer did not do what you wanted to do, but some developer, some builder somewhere did what you wanted to do b/c at one time or another you either bought their house or rented their house from someone who bought their house. They only build what "we" want so fighting them is really an outward struggle of the desire that is within us.


If anyone here cares about land use, get directly and intimately involved with local land use decisions and/or start actively working towards purchasing the land you see is environmentally sensative in your area. It is a lazy man that watches land go on the market, watches it get rezoned for development, watches it be bought and sold, watch it be developed, do nothing about the above, and then complain that they don't like the way their world looks. Get involved.

I am going to start a movement against the manufacturing of syntheticly made outdoor equipment- who is with me on this??? All the plastics are set up by DOW and we ALL know how bad they are! Let's take them down. I move that we all stop living in our houses, stop driving our cars, and stop buying backpacks. Funny, the entire pastime and "sport" of long distance hiking is completely and utterly dependant upon the manufacturing industries that we some often complain against. Yet without them, we do not have our lightweight shoes, our ramen noodles or mac and cheese, our tents, our backpacks, etc. etc.
The more you look at revolving your life around these issues the more you see how hopelessly hypocritical the entire situation is. The solution required is much, much bigger than ourselves.

[smokymtnsteve]

Steve, as I mentioned above, I assume you either don't live in a house on a paved street or you are eminently preparing to move from said house and into an animal skin teepee that you hunted, killed, and built yourself, right? .

no but I am eminently preparing to move to an off-grid handhewn cabin in AK this weekend. I'll be moving this saturday.

rode the marta train to work today as usual...for an american my footprint is smaller than average...and I continue to learn to walk more gently on the planet everyday...

No developers/builders are building nothing I want...damn Mcdonalds/church on every corner with a parking lot full of SUVs, Tvs, boom boxes, advertisment bombarding U everywhere...NO thanks.

why isn't it beautiful gwinnett county ga that requires two car garage...didn't that affect habitats ability to operate in gwinnett..

[screwysquirrel]

You Aholes who applaud this and think it's cool to torch houses wouldn't have the balls to do it yourselves. You're punks.

You've got this right!

[grandview]

In today's environment where humans are on the verge of paving and polluting ourselves off the face of the planet, that's a pretty good comparison. The deaths we will sustain over the next 100 years will make the Nazi holocost look like small potatos.

what part of wv are you from? coal belt...chemical valley...or the other 80 percent of the wild wonderful?

also, i think it's ridiculous to compare nazis to "hard top roads" as i remember the old timers calling them in wv during my youth.

[saimyoji]

Firebombing a housing complex compared to the Nazi endorsed holocaust? Just what ethnic group are we targeting by firebombing these housing complexes? The developers and builders that live miles away? Get a grip.

[Groucho]

The deaths we will sustain over the next 100 years will make the Nazi holocost look like small potatos.

Yep, well over 5 billion people will die in the next 100 years. No small potatoEs.

[UCONNMike]

When i first read this i thougth it was a joke, but it wasn't, and thats flippin' crazy that they did that, like that's some crazy rambo / commando stuff. While it would be cool in a movie, in real life that's kinda messed up. I mean i know government sucks now, and trying to get help from them is kind of a lost cause, but there has to be a better way of saving these areas, plus what will stop the guy from just rebuilding, he's loaded.

Upgrade = saving the forests and wetlands.
Downgrade = blowing stuff up to accomplish it.

[Mountain Dew]

My only wish when hearing this story of enviromental terrorism was that one of the fire bombers would have either been burned alive or that a home owner would have shot and killed them. Protection of our property is well within the law as was the building of those houses. This old growth forest topic is rather transparent. People who do little to contribute to the American economy live their lives in a reactive way instead of a proactive manner. Instead of comments crimes they should be joining organizations that buy this land in order to save it. I'd be willing to bet that none of the people responisble for this act of terrorism have ever done anything like write their congressman, run for city council, or donate money to a group that buys such land for the protection of it. These people need to be shot when found destroying peoples lives and property instead of setting a potential forest fire in order to "protect" old growth forest.

Mags, Tim Rich, Uconn, Lone Wolf, etc. Great posts. You get capitalism and understand that these people are eco-terrorist.

[Tha Wookie]

terrorism.

How easily this word gets tossed around these days. How painful it is.

Mt. Dew called for murder to pay back some houses being destroyed. Do you people realize what Mt. Dew said? Read his post a couple times. Ever heard of Salem, VA? You probably did because of statements like his.

Others here say that since we use nylon, we're hypocrites if we're against massive destruction of endangered habitats.

Others obviously haven't read enough Edward Abbey.

I'm with the Sierra Club on this one, but those people aren't "terrorists". They are misguided people fighting a good fight but the wrong way. I mean, all they needed was some carob sugar....

[Mountain Dew]

Wookie.... You need a lesson in the difference between the word murder and kill. I used the word "killed". Get it straight next time would you.

I now understand that you don't know the first thing about our right to protect our property and the lifes of our family's. How does the saying go..." ignorance of the law is no excuse". I have a B.S. in criminal law, but is that really needed to know that we have the right to defend our life and property ? Oh how the founding fathers would be angered to know that people give up such rights so freely as you do Wookie. It is legal to protect our homes and the lifes of our family's in EVERY STATE Wookie. If caught attempting to firebomb a house the owner of that house has the right to use deadly force. It's the law. I didn't just make it up for the purpose of my last post. I wont even go into the other laws that would have made it possible for anybody to use deadly force against these people upon catching them in the act. What would you have done if you caught these felons attempting to fire bomb the very house you and your family slept in ? Ran like a coward and later called them "misguided" as you did in your post ?

Bottom line here is this. You direct your words harder at me then at the coward, scum, felons who almost killed an innocent family. Nice character you have.

Just out of curiosity..what would you do if you caught these scum burning your house while your family slept Sgt. Rock, Lone Wolf, Baltimore Jack, Old Fhart, Walkinhome, Blue Jay, etc, ?

[Tha Wookie]

Burn the Eco-Terrorist My only wish when hearing this story of enviromental terrorism was that one of the fire bombers would have either been burned alive or that a home owner would have shot and killed them.
...Nice character you have.

Did you learn that kind of talk at Dallas Baptist University, where you studied "criminal law" as an undergrad?

Please, why don't you give us a lecture in character?

Killing? Getting "even" with guns? Slandering a fellow's girlfriend on the internet? What other tidbits of wisdom can you share with us?

[Bloodroot]

Probably would hog tie the person up and burn them a little. That's just my character.

What would you do? Let em run away, then casually call the police?

[grandview]

Probably would hog tie the person up and burn them a little. That's just my character.

What would you do? Let em run away, then casually call the police?

In the event that an eco terrorist tried to burn down my house, I'd give them a round a piece and then call the police.

[Bloodroot]

In the event that an eco terrorist tried to burn down my house, I'd give them a round a piece and then call the police.

That's just two people's character you know Grandview? Maybe it's the old West "by God" thing of running out on the porch and shooting our 10 gauge double barrel. That's just the way we roll in the hills. Hatfields and McCoys rule!

[grandview]

That's just two people's character you know Grandview? Maybe it's the old West "by God" thing of running out on the porch and shooting our 10 gauge double barrel. That's just the way we roll in the hills. Hatfields and McCoys rule!

off topic but...
i actually went to high school with some hatfields...
and yes, to this day, i keep a colt 44 by the front door....and a double barrel 20 gauge under my side of the bed....i guess you can never get all of that hillbilly out of your system.

regarding the topic:
I certainly wouldn't celebrate the shooting of a firebomber but they certainly placed themselves in a situation where they became fair game. If indeed there was a family living in one of those houses, then it went from arson to attempted murder.

What good does burning down a hummer dealership or a housing development serve anyway? The fires they light could easily end up burning down significant portions of old mother earth...I assumed these types of folks were against smoke pollution. Exceptions can be made apparently.

[Tim Rich]

...my home planet earth...

Doggone it, I lost a bet on that one...