The Doyle

[Odd Thomas]

Actually, Terrapin, you're being dishonest. The Wikipedia article you cite does indeed start that way, but then IMMEDIATELY says that the term "is used to imply a less than rigorous approach to hygeine or dishwashing."

In other words, you just acknowledged what I've been saying: Use of the term is generally limited to dingy, dirty, unsanitary, nasty places. The term is not now, nor never has been a compliment.

Where the article stated "is used to imply a less than rigorous approach to hygiene or dish washing" they were referring to the idiom's etymology, not the current expression's use, this is apparent by the rest of that sentence: "and appears to date from 1925."

[Lyle]

So Jack, if you consider a greasy spoon to be a dingy, cheap, fatty, greasy and unclean eating place, would you consider every restaurant on N Market Street to be a greasy spoon? I decided to take your advice and do more than 3 seconds of internet research. The PA Dept. of Health website shows infractions for every eating establishment on that strip including the 2 bars, ice cream place and 2 pizzerias which you just praised in a similar thread this afternoon. Some of these places have 5 or 6 infractions, which I can't imagine check out in your book as being all too sanitary. Some of the infractions are for minor things, but I'd start to question an establishment that has close to a half dozen issues.

I hate to the belabor the point but simply dismissing other people's point and opinions are not cool and something we've all worked to rid of on this new and improved WB.

To be quite honest here. My job fairly frequently gets me, unannounced, into the kitchens and back rooms of most every type of business. Let's just say that some of the "nicest" restaurants in town, and some of the most high-priced, are also some of the most disgusting. Using BJ's definition, MANY restaurants could qualify as a greasy spoon. And speaking to the number of infractions, that alone isn't a good indicator. Much more important are the nature of the infractions and their consistency. My $0.02 wort of opinion.

On another topic that was brought up in this thread. In a past life, I worked in the food service business. During that time, I had many opportunities to speak candidly with health department officials. They stated on several occasions that very few of the reported "food poisoning" cases are actually born out when the facts are checked. Most are attributable to other causes, and few even fit the time line necessary for serious consideration as a possible food poisoning instance. Just a heads-up that often times outward appearances influence our assessment of situations.

[STEVEM]

To be quite honest here. My job fairly frequently gets me, unannounced, into the kitchens and back rooms of most every type of business. Let's just say that some of the "nicest" restaurants in town, and some of the most high-priced, are also some of the most disgusting. Using BJ's definition, MANY restaurants could qualify as a greasy spoon. And speaking to the number of infractions, that alone isn't a good indicator. Much more important are the nature of the infractions and their consistency. My $0.02 wort of opinion.

On another topic that was brought up in this thread. In a past life, I worked in the food service business. During that time, I had many opportunities to speak candidly with health department officials. They stated on several occasions that very few of the reported "food poisoning" cases are actually born out when the facts are checked. Most are attributable to other causes, and few even fit the time line necessary for serious consideration as a possible food poisoning instance. Just a heads-up that often times outward appearances influence our assessment of situations.

I worked for a while installing and servicing kitchen fire suppression systems. Most people have no idea whats above the ceilings and behind the appliances in a commercial kitchen. There's not a lot of difference between five star restaurants, major medical centers, franchise chains, and mom and pop diners. Roaches and mice are really not all that fussy.

[A-Train]

To be quite honest here. My job fairly frequently gets me, unannounced, into the kitchens and back rooms of most every type of business. Let's just say that some of the "nicest" restaurants in town, and some of the most high-priced, are also some of the most disgusting. Using BJ's definition, MANY restaurants could qualify as a greasy spoon. And speaking to the number of infractions, that alone isn't a good indicator. Much more important are the nature of the infractions and their consistency. My $0.02 wort of opinion.

On another topic that was brought up in this thread. In a past life, I worked in the food service business. During that time, I had many opportunities to speak candidly with health department officials. They stated on several occasions that very few of the reported "food poisoning" cases are actually born out when the facts are checked. Most are attributable to other causes, and few even fit the time line necessary for serious consideration as a possible food poisoning instance. Just a heads-up that often times outward appearances influence our assessment of situations.

You're correct. Most of the infractions in Duncannon were minor ones, and I wasn't trying to draw attention to them being unlawful businesses. It was simply a point towards Jack's argument that Greasy Spoon had a nasty, dirty connotation, as if he'd ever patrionize such disgusting establishments. I've been working in a kitchen before when the health inspectors arrived unexpectedly. Most of their qualms were quite trivial, more reminders than slaps on the wrist.

[Jack Tarlin]

Right. Most of their qualms are trivial, and it's not at all surprising for a restaurant to be hit up with five or six minor infractions. Virtually NOBODY ever scores 100% on a restaurant inspection, and just for the record, I've been inside the kitchens of most of these establishments in Duncannon, and yes, I'd happily eat in any of them again.

[bfitz]

bfitz...you must be drunk, or you need to visit more bars.

Well...like, I may be drunk....but you know...like... in the morning I'll be sober and you, well...that'sss still just gonna be like yourr opinion, man.

[Hoop Time]

Looks pretty easy to me. Prohibit anyone under 18 and thats basically all there is to it.

Gee, I hope not. That would prohibit Cookie Monster and her sisters from joining the Mrs. and I there for burgers and fries, which are world class.

My kids love the food and the atmosphere. Of course we don't stay there late in the evening after hitting the Doyle for dinner.

Great place. Great food. Great music. Great people.

[TD55]

Correct, just my opinion. I am biased 'caus I live in an area full of bars at the beach. I give the Doyle high points, but the universe is a big place and I've only been to bars on this planet.

[Odd Thomas]

Correct, just my opinion. I am biased 'caus I live in an area full of bars at the beach. I give the Doyle high points, but the universe is a big place and I've only been to bars on this planet.

Never had a Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster then. You at least know where your towel is, right?

[NICKTHEGREEK]

Can't believe this is still being debated. I just took off for two hours and went downtown. There's this big charity road race going on in Hanover, despite the rain, a half marathon, with all sorts of booths, food vendors, etc. I ran into several folks I know who work in, or help run local restaurants. (And three of them, Lou's, the Bagel Basement, and the Dirt Cowboy are where people go for breakfast).

Just for the hell of it, I brought up the term "greasy spoon." Without exception, they all said that in the restaurant business, the phrase is NOT considered a term that is either genteel or complimentary, and implies a place that is cheap, lower level, and unclean.

But since Terrapin obviously knows more about this subject than folks that spend around 60 hours a week actually working in, and running restaurants, I'll happily withdraw from this discussion.

Ummmmm. Let's see if I got this right. So you can't believe it's still debated, even after 2 hours after went downtown amid numerous totally unrelated distractions. Then you still manage to broach the subject of greasy spoons with several folks who work in the food industry "just for the hell of it". I guess because there's nothing else to discuss like the hurricanes or business politics or football season. Very, very sad.

[Jack Tarlin]

Ummm. It's almost as sad, Nick, as the staggering number of your posts here at Whiteblaze that are directed at me. Sad and sorta unhealthy. You need a new hobby.

[Alligator]

I need a new hobby too--breaking up fights is unhealthy. You just don't know how many nails I've split pounding on this keyboard.

[bfitz]

....I've only been to bars on this planet.

Shows what you know. But the Doyle fulla hikers and music is usually a blast. Plus, at least three of the ten most important moments in my life have occurred there. So far.

[weary]

Shows what you know. But the Doyle fulla hikers and music is usually a blast. Plus, at least three of the ten most important moments in my life have occurred there. So far.

Tell us about those three times! We are waiting with baited, bated, or some kind of anxiety, anyway.

Weary

[TD55]

Anyone claiming to have had a Galactic Gargle Blaster on this planet has been tricked. It ain't possible. Is it?

[weary]

I need a new hobby too--breaking up fights is unhealthy. You just don't know how many nails I've split pounding on this keyboard.

Just relax Alligator. This too will pass.

A wearying kind of person.

[The Old Fhart]

I had a Pangalactic Gargle Blaster at The Restaurant At The End Of The Universe, but not at the Doyle.

[Hoop Time]

I certainly would not base my views on a Wikipedia definition. If you'd like, I can quickly change that definition to read any way I want it to.

Greasy spoon is not neccessarily a derogatory term. Just like the term "dive" or "joint", it can be used in a complimentary, or at least neutral, manner.

Personally, I don't see the Doyle as a "greasy spoon." I reserve that phrase for fine late night diners. When alcohol is served, dive or joint fit better.

[bfitz]

Tell us about those three times! We are waiting with baited, bated, or some kind of anxiety, anyway.

Weary

You'll have to wait for my memoir "The Audacity Of Dope" to come out.

[TD55]

I don't think anyone referred to the Doyle as a greasy spoon. I think someone referred to one of the cafe's in Duncannon as a greasy spoon. Did anyone find a towel on the trail?