Shelter etiquette

[sliderule]

The sun sets at 9:30, the sun rises at 5:30

(talking summertime with the above stats)

I wonder if the banging pots at 5:30 had anything to do with the after 9:30 noise???

I know that, on occasion, there is most certainly a correlation.

[Lone Wolf]

Maybe because he stayed in a lot of them, til he knew better, and learned to avoid them!

But he's 100% right about the tent thing......tents belong on tentsites, and not in shelters.

no s**t. thanks jack. obviously left coast fishes are fu**in clueless.

[rafe]

But he's 100% right about the tent thing......tents belong on tentsites, and not in shelters.

As a rule, I'd agree. But I remember a hot summer night in June, 2005 at Glen Brook shelter in CT... when a couple of thrus set up their tents in the shelter, because of the mosquitos. Since they were the only ones who chose to stay in it, I didn't complain and saw no problem with it.

[Lone Wolf]

As a rule, I'd agree. But I remember a hot summer night in June, 2005 at Glen Brook shelter in CT... when a couple of thrus set up their tents in the shelter, because of the mosquitos. Since they were the only ones who chose to stay in it, I didn't complain and saw no problem with it.

they don't belong in the woods..they had a TENT. set it up, crawl in it. setting a tent up in a man-made structure is totally weenie. you subscribe to that though, terrapin.

[rafe]

they don't belong in the woods..they had a TENT. set it up, crawl in it. setting a tent up in a man-made structure is totally weenie. you subscribe to that though, terrapin.

I didn't say I "subscribe" to it, LW. I slept in my tent that night, away from the shelter. My only point is that if there's no contention for the shelter, there's no harm in doing what they did. That's all. Don't put words in my mouth.

[Sly]

In defense of GsingJane and her husband, I wouldn't sleep my teen and pre-teen granddaughters in a crowded shelter with fellows I didn't know either. While 99.9% of you fellows are perfect gentlemen, it is the .1% that are not gentlemen that would persaude me to err on the side of caution and keep my babies tucked under my wing in our tent. (Seen the current thread on 'Saved'?)

Well then maybe they shouldn't have set up in the shelter in the first place. What if the "strange males" came in late when the kids were asleep?

[Sly]

I didn't say I "subscribe" to it, LW. I slept in my tent that night, away from the shelter. My only point is that if there's no contention for the shelter, there's no harm in doing what they did. That's all.

Yeah, but you don't know when others are going to show up...

[rafe]

Yeah, but you don't know when others are going to show up...

If more folks show up and ask for space, they should take the tents down. Agreed. On my last section I had the shelters to myself almost every night. All I'm saying is that "shelter etiquette" is always situational.

[Marta]

In defense of GsingJane and her husband, I wouldn't sleep my teen and pre-teen granddaughters in a crowded shelter with fellows I didn't know either. While 99.9% of you fellows are perfect gentlemen, it is the .1% that are not gentlemen that would persaude me to err on the side of caution and keep my babies tucked under my wing in our tent. (Seen the current thread on 'Saved'?)

I completely disagree. What is the message here? That to avoid the .01% of bad apples, you should fear all men? Much more useful for the girls to start developing judgement while they're in your company, to start working on that radar that can separate the dangerous from the normal. Okay, so we're talking about hikers. Strike the word "normal" and substitute "not dangerous in this situation." Girls also need to work on their ability to control interactions, and not just run away.

Many people have very poor radars. Their thought processes go pretty shallowly, like "Well dressed and clean shaven=trustworthy. Unkempt=dangerous." I think everyone here knows that's not true. Some of the more successful serial killers have used that stereotype to lure victims.

Besides, efforts to keep girls completely away from men frequently backfire because they are so incredibly curious about them that they will seek them out. Much better for men to lose their mystery...and be revealed for the people that they are. They don't completely lose their appeal, but one becomes more discriminating...

My $.02.

Now I will step down off the soap box and go have breakfast with my husband.

Marta/Five-Leaf

[Blissful]

Glad I have a son. My son loves shelters, so we will probably be near them on this hike. I hope to stay in my tent unless the weather forces other plans or I'm in GSMNP and have no choice.

But if I had young teenage daughters, they'd be in tents and nowhere near shelter areas in the first place. (esp with some of the shenanigans I've seen with occupants at shelters - like the pot smoking). Set up tents by a stream or under some nice trees. And with a good tent, you can stay nice and dry and even dry out some in rain.

[Lyle]

Glad I have a son. My son loves shelters, so we will probably be near them on this hike. I hope to stay in my tent unless the weather forces other plans or I'm in GSMNP and have no choice.

But if I had young teenage daughters, they'd be in tents and nowhere near shelter areas in the first place. (esp with some of the shenanigans I've seen with occupants at shelters - like the pot smoking). Set up tents by a stream or under some nice trees. And with a good tent, you can stay nice and dry and even dry out some in rain.

OK Blissful,

I've never met you, but assume you are a relatively liberated, free-thinking, self-reliant woman. Most women backpackers I've met fall into this catagory or very close.

It surprises me that you have this seemingly double standard for you teenage boy (will be near them because he enjoys them) and your attitude if he were female (in tents, nowhere near shelter areas). The pot-smoking influence would be the same, either gender.

I have no kids, so I don't mean to be judgemental here. I think you are great to give this opportunity to your son. I'm just surprised.

Lyle

[Ewker]

Lyle, I thought the same thing. You just beat me to it.

[sliderule]

Besides, efforts to keep girls completely away from men frequently backfire because they are so incredibly curious about them that they will seek them out.

Thank goodness for that phenomenon. Without it, I may never have gotten a date!!!

[sherrill]

Far better to be curious about a guy in a shelter (with you there) than with a bear or raccoon digging in your food bag.

[Pennsylvania Rose]

As a parent of 3 teenagers (2 girls and a boy), and a high school teacher, I can assure you that there isn't anything questionable that goes on in shelters that can't be found in public high schools. (Guess that doesn't say much for schools, huh?) My kids think shelters are cool because of the people that they get to meet. I've always worried more that the kids would be rude and disturb others rather than them being exposed to something unseemly or scary.


BTW, Blissful, my two oldest are extremely jealous of you and PB. They want to thru so badly, but can't for a few more years.

[sliderule]

As a parent of 3 teenagers (2 girls and a boy), and a high school teacher...

You don't teach English, by chance, do you?

[Outlaw]

You don't teach English, by chance, do you?

Wondering the same thing myself.

[Blissful]

OK Blissful,

I've never met you, but assume you are a relatively liberated, free-thinking, self-reliant woman. Most women backpackers I've met fall into this catagory or very close.

It surprises me that you have this seemingly double standard for you teenage boy (will be near them because he enjoys them) and your attitude if he were female (in tents, nowhere near shelter areas). The pot-smoking influence would be the same, either gender.

I have no kids, so I don't mean to be judgemental here. I think you are great to give this opportunity to your son. I'm just surprised.

Lyle

It isn't a double standard at all. My 16 1/2 yr old son takes after my hubby. He loves the social scene, and thus, the shelter. it's the main reason he's going on the trail, BTW. I am not a socialite, sharing sleeping space with strange men. Sure I'll do it if I need to (weather or other). But that's not me. I'll eat my food at the shelters. Share a fire. Talk to people there. But sharing my sleep with rodents or a man a foot away is not my cup of tea. I prefer my tent and my privacy. I go for the wilderness adventure of it. Not to see if I can be a man at a shelter (I like being a woman who wants privacy, BTW. And as far as being liberated, I like being under the headship my hubby, though sometimes that gets tested, ha ha. If he had said no to my thru hike, for instance, I wouldn't be doing this. But he has said, yes, yes yes! hurray. And he has helped me in more ways than anyone could count).

Anyway, if I want teen girls (I work with them at my church in a Teen Adventure group, btw) to experience the outdoors, sleeping in a trail shelter is not my idea of wilderness experience or something they need to go through to prove anything in life. I'd rather they camp by a stream or under pine trees. That is wilderness. Let's get real. Women are not men. And these days, you can hardly walk down the street alone at night. I hate it, but that's the way it is. You have to watch everything. Be safe and err on the side of caution. And that's what I would do if I needed to safeguard teenage girls on a backpacking trip.

[gsingjane]

Wow, I am very surprised that so many found fault with my and my husband's agreement vis-a-vis male hikers and shelters. I thought we did the considerate thing by moving out and did not impose our values on others.

In terms of what my husband and I decide regarding our children, my thought would be that, as in every other family and pretty much every other parenting decision that doesn't involve public health or safety, that is between the individual parents and their individual children. Just as with many of the other folks on this board who have successful working relationships with their partners, over the years we've both learned to compromise, and this is one of the areas on which I've agreed to concede. Again, that would seem to be purely my affair.

I certainly don't subscribe to the notion that if my girls don't sleep with strange men in shelters, they'll grow up fascinated by men (or strange men!) in general. For Pete's sake, they live with their two older teenage brothers - that should eliminate most of the mystique right there! I also hope that a cold and rainy night didn't ruin my children's enthusiasm for backpacking (it hasn't so far) but I guess I will have to wait another 5 or 10 or maybe 20 years to know that for sure. We are planning our spring trip now and certainly nobody has said that they don't want to go.

I am just sort of puzzled at how what I thought was an extremely non-confrontational way to handle a situation became so controversial anyway. But that's WB for you, I guess!

Jane in CT

p.s. to Sly: we were out on a weekday on a cold and rainy day in late November and had no reason to expect that any other hikers would come along, given that we hadn't seen any for the entire day, and had slept alone the prior night. But I will certainly keep your views in mind for next time.

[Jack Tarlin]

Um...note to Terrapin.

Tents are mosquito proof. That's why they all come with bug netting, in case you were wondering what the mesh was for.

So, the excuse of setting up a tent in a shelter cuz it was buggy is ridiculous.

And as for the "If anyone showed up and wanted to stay, then they could have said something," well that's ridiculous. That makes the later arrivals be the "bad guys" and it makes them "inconvenience" the shelter tenters.....who shouldn't have set up in there in the first place.

Tents don't belong in shelters, and setting one up in a shelter is laziness, period. Tents belong on tentsites.

Anyone who thinks otherwise obviously hasn't spent much time on the Trail.