You think cell phones in the wilderness are bad?

[weary]

I think some of the particulars regarding rescues and recoveries in the Whites get mixed up. The best source to read about them is in "Appalachia" which, as I understand it, is the country's oldest mountaineering journal.

I recall a doctor (me thinks) that called for help off Mount Washington, and survived. I think the general thought was that climber was irresponsible in pushing on when others were turning back. I do recall that he avoided getting a bill for the rescue (he made a contribution), but was roundly critisized for his choices. That was a couple years ago. If he didn't make that call he would be dead, but then again volunteers would not have risked thier lives either. Alls well that ends well I guess. God bless those guys. As an aside Rick Wilcox (long-time technical rescue vleader and Everest climber) presented at the last AMC biannual meeting where he expressed his reservations about charges to anyone.

I also remember that one half of a couple got into fatal trouble on the Franconia Ridge this spring, and may not have been as prepared as they should have been, but I don't reall if they had selected a phone over equipment that would have helped.

Used to be that the AMC had a good web site and archive that got into all this. That part has been closed. As for Appalachia, I let my subscription lapse, so I can't help you guys. Its an extra $10 with an AMC membership,. It should be in the library.

Back in the AMC's good old days someone at AMC was wise -- or foolish enough -- to give me an honorary lifetime membership, including, you guessed it, a subscription to Appalachia. Twice a year since it has arrived, including what used to be called the December issue (now winter/spring, 2005) yesterday.

The most interesting part of Appalachia to me is always the accident reports, which I read first, luckily, given this topic. I've put off other articles dealing with the sound of silence and John Muir's NE explorations, and a few poems until later.

So which mountain deaths do folks want to hear the details analyzed. There was the park ranger who died on Twin Mountain in minus 45 F temperatures on Jan. 13; a man who died of hypothermia on Garfield ridge on March 21; and a skier who died near Mount Clay about the same time. All had cell phones. All died. Well, the husband of the Garfield Ridge victim survived. It was only the wife that died.

I think RnR was referring to the ranger, but I don't remember precisely. Anyway, the Appalachia reviewer concludes that death was probably inevitable, given the nature of the weather and temperatures and the decision to hike, despite the forecast. One interesting sidelight suggests that if the ranger had been less fit, i.e. had more fat, hypothermia might have come on more gradually, giving the victim more time to respond. He had plenty of gear with him, though his sleeping bag was only rated to minus 20.

The speculation was that after a chilly night, his attempt to escape the next morning ended quickly. Potentially warming gear was discarded almost immediately after he left his campsite, classic evidence of hypothermia.

Weary

[Peter Mossberg]

Sgt. Bruce Bonenfant at New Hampshire Fish and Game said the incidence of searches in the White Mountains went up with the widespread use of cell phones in recent years

Bonenfant said the law holding reckless victims responsible for the cost of searches has been on the books for years, but only in the past year has the state’s fish and game agency applied it to hikers. In that time, about five hikers have been charged for a search, Col. Ronald Alie said.


Bonenfant said that with more people owning cell phones, there have been more cases where careless behavior has occurred.


“People have a cell phone or a GPS [Global Positioning System] and they have no clue other than that. They are in a situation way over their head,’’ Bonenfant said.


One of the most-publicized incidents occurred when Dr. Bernhoff Dahl of Winterport became lost in a whiteout on Mount Washington in October 1999 when he went up ill-prepared.

http://www.meepi.org/files/29486.htm

[hwbout]

Hi, I just recently joined this forum and another forum, I think the other was trailplace. I'll be hiking the AT from Vermont to NY this summer, so I have been trying to get as much info as possible, reading lots of message boards and websites. Anyway, the topic of cellphones came up on the other message board, and I contributed my opinion. (This was my second post ever to Trailplace) Anyway, my opinion was that I don't own a cellphone, but that when people talk on their cell phones, it doesn't really bother me. Personally, I'd rather have people talk on their cellphone, then talk to me. Listening to their conversation ALWAYS amuses and interests me, because I am a busy body and a people watcher. Anyway, that's basically all I wrote on the other message board and within 5 minutes of that post, I was completly booted off the forum. So I went to the terms and conditions of the message board and lo and behold, there was this rule that said if anyone agrees with cellphone use, you will be removed. I thought that was hysterical, because I wasn't exactly aggreeing nor disagreeing. I was kind of doing both. I don't own a cellphone but am not against them. So needless to say, I won't be visiting that "other" forum anymore. (I am completly blocked, even from reading messages) Atleast here, it seems that people have more of a sense of humor about the whole cellphone thing, and hopefully, I won't be removed from this forum. I find the people here are a bit more light hearted and hope to see you on the trail.

[hwbout]

Wait one minute. After reading a bit more on page 2, I noticed Jack being quite angry. That's kind of how they behave on the other message board that I can no longer go to. I think you would fit in very well there Jack, that is if they don't boot you off after your second post.

[Jack Tarlin]

There was nothing at all angry or unreasonable about my earlier posts on this thread: A frequent Whiteblaze contributor cited an apparently well-known episode in the White Mountains in which a hiker who had overly relied on his cell phone had paid for this mistake with his life.

I asked this poster more than once to provide corrorboration and details in regard to this "well-known" incident.

He never did so, which did not much surprise me.

Asking folks to back up their statements posted here with facts and data does not make one an "angry" person; it merely means one is curious as to the validity of some of the things that are written here. And as far as my being incapable of a "light-hearted" post, well perhaps when hwbout has been here more than three weeks he'll see that on occasion I actually do have a sense of humor.

And as to the other website, I'm not sure how welcome I'd be over there; I prefer to post here, where there are fewer administrative restrictions, a greater opportunity to have open and complete discussions, no "forbidden" or barred topics, and little or no political editorializing by site administrators.

Oh, and this site sees more activity as well. After all, if one is going to contribute to an Interactive Internet Forum, it makes sense to send your posts to where more folks are likely to read them.

[orangebug]

What Jack said.

You will find that it is tough to get booted off of this list. That is not because it is so light hearted, because we have plenty of pretty outrageous flames here. It is because most of us understand that more than one opinion creates the opportunity for creative energy, education and growth. We are able to suffer fools from time to time, but we also have an "ignore" feature that allows individuals to filter out those we find to only produce burdensome noise.

Welcome to WB.

[Mountain Dew]

Java Mama...try out the AT-L webpage. I'm thinking you'd find that message board more to your liking.

[The Old Fhart]

hwbout-"I find the people here are a bit more light hearted....

----I noticed Jack being quite angry----I think you would fit in very well there Jack, that is if they don't boot you off after your second post."

Interesting that you can first praise people here in general for being lighthearted in one breath and in the next, hurl an insult at an individual-certainly not lighthearted on your part. I thought Jack was quite calm in his post so please tell us, in a “lighthearted” way Java Mama, why you chose to single out Jack for criticism and not keep your comments general and positive like the first part of your post that I quoted. I’d be interested in your answer. Signed-The Lighthearted Old Fhart

[hwbout]

You have a poiNT there Jack, I am brand spankin new to this forum. I think I can spend a lifetime reading here and still not be able to read every post. Which is why I shouldn't have made a judgement call like that accusing you of being an angry guy. I understand your point completly. I guess my point was that if you posted something like that on the other website, it would probably be deleted. I am also curious as to the fatal incident thing and maybe, eventually he will repond as to what exactly happened. But this "off topic" thread probably doesn't get read as often as some of the other threads.
And now I am off in search of the AT-L thread.

[TJ aka Teej]

And now I am off in search of the AT-L thread.

http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/at-l
The Internet's original Appalachian Trail forum.

[hwbout]

I am off to read a few archived threads now.

[wacocelt]

Welcome to WB JavaMama!

Don't worry about Jack, he's verbose and seems cranky as all Hell, but he's a teddy bear! A teddy bear which smells like ciggaretts, bourbon and funk, but a teddy bear none the less!

[Skeemer]

Lone Wolf and his buddy were out on the AT one day when his buddy collapses. His buddy doesn't seem to be breathing and his eyes are glazed. LW takes out his buddy's cell phone and calls 911.

LW gasps: "My buddy is dead!! What can I do?

The operator says: "Calm down, I can help. First, let's first make sure he's dead.

There is silence, then a gunshot is heard. Back on the phone LW say: "OK, now what?"

[J.D.]

Cell phone users are very spiritual people. Instead of chanting "Ommmm" all day they yell "Hello" over and over and over all day. It is very enlightening. They erect their worship towers on every mountain top, in praise of their God. They never have to face the horror of being alone. Some day I hope to have one of these majic objects.

...hehehe! Love'd that...!

HYOH... But, please stay out of ear shot, OK...? Now, at my age, that's not too far away 'cause I can't hear even hear the storms coming.

[J.D.]

RE: Re-charging batteries

Since it is always raining on the trail, solar panels are useless. However, *FUEL CELL* technology is here NOW. I was amazed to find out that commerically available fuel cell power packs are on the market.

Pricy.... $4,800 for 1 KW that will "run" for weeks - no noise, no pollution.

But, only $134.00 for a unit that weighs 60 grams and puts out .5 volts

Couple more years and they will have the price and weight down to something I can add to my pack and have unlimited power for my microwave, electric blanket....

[SGT Rock]

As soon as they make AAA fuel cells that run off alcohol we will be set.

[Goon]

How many potato batteries would you need to run a cell phone?

(For those who don't know what I am talking about: http://www.quantumscientific.com/pclock.html )

[The Old Fhart]

There may be an easier (and cheaper) way to keep your cell phone battery charged on the trail. My phone can be charged from any supply that puts out about 6 VDC and this isn't too critical. What I used was a 4 AAA cell battery holder with the proper connector and I could charge my phone any time from my spare batteries. Seeing I was using my spare batteries, the only added weight was about 1oz for the battery holder, cord, and connector. Actually, I had 2 different connectors on the pack so I could also charge the lithium-ion battery in my palm computer. One set of AAA batteries was good for quite a few charges. The down side of this method is it won't do you any good if you don't know how to do it properly yourself.

[Stuart]

Throwing in a couple random thoughts and probably no substance to the discussion...

1. I agree with the notion that for some less experienced hikers the cell phone creates a false sense of security and provides a crutch by which some may enter into situations that they truly have no business in. To me the cell phone allows you to expand your comfort zone, in essence allowing you to take your comfort zone with you. This may decrease the acuity of some when they are on the trail or lead them to take chances otherwise they would not since they are only a phone call away. Personally it takes the fun out of it for me. I want out of the comfort zone, which makes life almost mind numbing to me.

2. But since wireless internet and cell phones, etc. are here to stay.... Last time I was in the Smoky Mtns I meet a fella in the TV industry and he was speaking to upcoming technology. According to him, next BIG think is the flexible LCD. Somewhere around 2008-9 we should be able to have a backpack ready color TV. With the flexible LCD (or maybe LED, I'm not a technology guy)... anyway we will have flat, very thin TV's that we can roll up like a scroll, put in a pack and slap up on the shelter wall. So then we could escape and watch prime time television all at the same time I think there is a safety rationale to be had somewhere if you look at it from the right point of view. We could pick up tips by watching LOST and Survivor and then get the latest weather @ 11:00. Hmmm

[orangebug]

It will be an LCD TV, with multiuse DirecTV dish (use as a wok for cooking and eating). The problem of battery recharging will still keep this intrusion at a minimum, I hope.