AT success rate inflated by comforts

[hungryhowie]

Details, details. Walken, Whalen...there's just a couple of letters difference. Boy do I feel sheepish

To my credit, although I own both, I just haven't taken them off of the shelf in years. Better luck next time, eh?

-howie

[Dharma]

1. oodles of hostels
2. trail magic
3. friends and family meeting up with hikers
4. slackpacking
5. cell phones

I wonder how low the success rate would be for thru-hikes if not for the increasingly more common instances of trail help?

From the existential desk of Dharma - - -
Your #1-5 above would seem to increase the chances of a successful thru hike, but the choices here are mutually exclusive.

In recent years, hikers have been choosing to experience their hike with more ease: magic, hostels, slacking, etc.
And, lately, a higher percentage of hikers have been choosing to complete their thru hikes.

Removing the choice for ease does not effect the choice to finish. You seem to think the two are related. They are not. Stop searching for that connection. It's not there.

[tlbj6142]

I would like to see if there is anyone I know that falsely sent for their certificate.

I'm sure there are plenty of folks that wanted the certificate (not sure why they would) that didn't meet the requirements.

I also don't think the completion numbers are based on certificate request, correct?

[lobster]

You are correct.

By the way, any thoughts on why the numbers were down this year?

[bearbait2k4]

I believe the start rates were down this year as well, so that would probably explain completion rates being down.

[weary]

You are correct.
By the way, any thoughts on why the numbers were down this year?

I think anyone who walks between Springer Mountain in Georgia and Katahdin in Maine should have a certificate if they want one. Most elementary computer publishing programs will print out very pretty certificates very easily. But if anyone can't do it, I would be glad to print one for them. Just send me a stamped, self-addressed envelope.

The Appalachian Trail Conference also issues certificates to those who claim to have walked "every mile" of the Appalachian Trail between the two points. This always has struck me as a bit too restrictive, since it seems to exclude folks like me who go to trails mostly to explore the countryside. I consider it impolite, for instance, to ignore a blue-blazed loop trail built by some trail maintaining club to enhance the hiker's experience.

At a minimum, I would modify the rules to allow folks to walk between the two points anyway they want, providing they stayed within the designated Appalachian Trail Corridor.

But then I don't really know what the conference means when it talks of "every mile." Do they really mean "every inch" i.e. "all" the trail, or just part of every mile. If ATC means all, I wonder why they don't say so, and cut out the bit about every mile.

None of this, of course, really makes much difference in the real world. People interpret the rules anyway they want. I was puzzled when Mountain Mama's drove us back to the trail and Shoeless Mare insisted on being taken back to the hostel, since we had been dropped a mile north of where most of us had left the trail the day before. Most in the crowded truck just thanked the driver and kept going. Again 100 miles further north Silver Springs walked back down 200 yards of road that formed part of the trail after a friendly driver we had hitched a ride with chose that as a safer place to turn around.

As a result of these incidents, it dawned on me that some were insisting on passing every white blaze. It took that long because almost no one else in 1993 seemed to be doing so.

Weary

[JillJones]

Each individual sooner or later has to come to terms with what they feel is a thru hike and what the ATC says is a Thru Hike. I don’t doubt, there are some people who honestly don’t know and some just don’t care. I also understand why some who’ve really done the ATC version have a problem with people claiming the same accomplishment. It should be an individual matter, (HYOH), however, it’s human nature to want others to know our accomplishments and not have them tarnished, belittled or minimized.

I’ve had people say to me, “Well, it can’t be that hard, because my mother, brother,aunt, friend, my cat, whoever did it, and they have a hard time walking around the block.
I was talking about Mt Washington, (The climb in bad weather) to some co-workers. One woman who came in on the middle of the conversation, said her sister use to go up there all the time, and its no big deal. Later, talking with her, it turns out, her sister had in fact been to the summit of Mt Washington over 25 times and had the bummer sticker on her vehicle to prove it. “This Vehicle climbed Mt. Washington” You can buy them at the gift shop.

[wacocelt]

You'll find these days that people will quickly discount anything which doesn't interest or impress them. Alot of folks will look at the accomplishments or experiences of others and treat them as if they watched it on television instead of actually living it.

An example. I was at the 'Outfitter' here in town trying on different pairs of Trail Runners for my up-coming Thru hike. The attendant I was dealing with was very helpful and patient, considering I had tried on about 10 pairs already. Another employess walks up, having overheard only a small fragment of our conversation, and decides to take charge.

Employee #2 "If you're winter hiking you'll want a stury Gortex Boot, like these," proceeds to grab the biggest, heaviest boot on the wall.

Emp #1 "He's already done alot of trail miles and prefers..." is interrupted

Emp #2 "The have goretex lining, heavy duty insulation..."

Me "I've hiked over a thousand miles in all kinds of weather and prefer trail runners, we're doing fine, thanks."

Emp #2 "Right, well these will be much better than those because..."

Me "How old are you?"

Emp #2 "21."

Me "Do you hike?"

#2 "Yeah, all the time. My family goes to our cabin Colorado three or four times a year."

Me "Great! Have you hiked more than a week at a time?"

#2 "No. Just for a few hours around the lake."

Me "Were you carrying a 30 pound pack with 3 days food and water?"

#2 "No," He laughs, "We had food at the cabin!" As if he has just scored his coup de grace


I just shook my head and groaned.

He still didn't relent, he was convinced that He knew what I needed because He sold shoes and weekended at some lake cabin in Colorado. He absolutely and redundantly refused to listen to either myself or his co-worker tell him that his advice, nor his assistance were needed. I finally had to walk to the busy (a week before Christmas) lobby and ask, loudly, for the manager and ask him to relieve me of the assistance of his exuberant young salesman.

It's hard for me to stomach ignorance of any kind most of the time and I'm trying to work on that, but when ignorance slides smooth into blatant disrespect I have to resort to Fight or Flight. Since punching dumbasses in the mouth is illegal I did what I was suppose to do and went and tattled on him. Which still didn't prevent the little turd from making smart remarks to me from across the room, as he is apparently the owners son and in absolutely no fear of losing his job, or his teeth.

Bah, sorry for the rant, but the kid at that store reminds me of a few of the posters here who feel the need to turn even the most amiable discussion into the debate of the century, no matter how little experience or knowledge they have.

I think I'll go hiking, anyone care to join me?!

[dharmabum86]

2100+ miles is still alot of friggin' miles and nobody should be here on this site attempting to discount anyone's accomplishments on the trail. Whether they hiked in 73' or 04' should not be an issue. Once you complete the trail you are in that club forever. I cannot wait to become a member. "That's all I have to say about that..."

TRI BES 05'

ps: Is it April one yet????

Amen, Tribes! It's not my fault I wasn't born until '79. I would have hiked it then, but unfortunately I was a late bloomer and didn't start hiking until I was atleast 2.

[rambunny]

Not to confuse the issue but as i have watched others over the years-i think success rates have gone up due to the internet and great places for information so people are heading out more prepared ,less anxious,and my favorite-less quiting on the approach trail due to 200 lb. pack. As far as sniveling about creature comforts along trail-hike your own hike-don't engage in them if you don't want but keep your nose outta other peoples way. To each his own.

[MOWGLI]

By the way, the trails were steeper! Switchbacking, especially in the Nantahalas, has made things easier. It probably evens out with trails being taken off roads and the length of trail increased.

Switchbacks are not installed to make the trail easier. They are installed to make trails sustainable, thereby reducing maintenance needs. Ever notice how badly eroded the trails are in New England? That's not a shot at the MATC and AMC. They do great work with their volunteers.

Fall line trails tend to erode - often quickly and badly. I saw half of Carter Dome run down the AT into the pond at Carter Notch in 2000. It seemed that way anyway. I sat for 20 minutes and watched this giant plume of mud grow in the pond. It was actually quite disturbing.

[Ridge]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lobster
1. oodles of hostels
2. trail magic
3. friends and family meeting up with hikers
4. slackpacking
5. cell phones

I wonder how low the success rate would be for thru-hikes if not for the increasingly more common instances of trail help?





Better weather makes the success rate higher than the perks, etc thats found on the trail. I'd rather have perfect weather than a hotel with ctv any day. Bad weather on the trail can really do a number on your body and mind.

[Drum Stick]

I can't believe the way some people think...

I hiked as purely as I could from GA to Gorham NH when my good friend Cup Cake (I don't think he wanted that name but it stuck and he took it smiling) who I met on day 1 of the trip told me that he was going to do a little slacking. At first I was hesitant because I had been so pure (hiking). But I did not want to split up and anyway what else did I have to prove 'to myself'. So I agreed and the slacking was great, I only wished I had slacked sooner.

1. I was thankful for all of the hostels etc. along the trail and I hope more will spring up, it is so nice to be clean if only for some hours. I don't see how anyone can bitch about that. Bottom line is that the hostels are not visible from the trail.

2. I was grateful for all of the trail magic that I experienced (some you would not frikken believe!). I only hope I am so lucky on my next trip... I can't imagine anyone being offended by trail magic. But 'perhaps' trail angels should set ourselves off the trail a bit. No problemo, no one way street here.

3. I absolutely enjoyed meeting the families of my hiking friends and I am certain they enjoyed meeting mine. The encounters are some of my best trail memories for sure for sure:-). I have a couple of letters sent by my trail friends, (framed by my parents), that hang on the wall of our camp in ME. I only hope I am so lucky the next time around.

4. Already covered slacking.

5. I did not carry a cell phone, but my good friend did because he had some sort of intestinal problem that took him off the trail twice... no three times, including an ambulance ride and a hospital stay in VA. I do think it is rude for someone to take/make a call in front of others but I never saw that happen twice. I must admit that phone came in handy when what was left of a hurricane moved through the Whites. At least a dozen thru hikers enjoyed staying in Gorham that night, reservations and a shuttle were complimets of a cell phone call. Oh yah! What is wrong with that?

Is some one suggesting that I hiked the trail wrong? Excellent! Do Over! see you in 2007 I hope.

I am amazed that someone can be 'disturbed' over the way someone else hikes or what they claimed... We each know how we got to ME. I swear I was steroid free.
Peace
Drum Stick

[Nightwalker]

1. oodles of hostels
2. trail magic
3. friends and family meeting up with hikers
4. slackpacking
5. cell phones

I wonder how low the success rate would be for thru-hikes if not for the increasingly more common instances of trail help?

I'm not talking about light-weight gear which helps the physical side of hiking which obviously carries over to the mental side. I'm referring to the opportunities for spirit raising things like a soft bed, a call to a loved one from a mountain top, a meal at a road crossing, etc.

There's no way to make 5-7 months on a trail easy!

[Nightwalker]

Lastly, if you're so concerned with calling out hikers who haven't hiked the whole trail or who have recieved trail magic, well then I have a suggestion (since you seem to have so much free time to speculate). Why not go down to Springer in March and track all the hikers. You can go down with a clip board and write everyone's name down and then mark off when they get a free soda or ride. You can also count the number of skipped miles. Then in September you can go up to Katahdin and call them all out and proclaim that they actually aren't thru-hikers. Wouldn't that be a hoot!

Originally posted by kahley7 on the AT-L, Sat, 21 Apr 2001, as a tie-up of the thread talking about the proposed "Avery Society", whose sole purpose was to verify that those claiming to have done a thru had in fact actually done so. So be careful...

THE AVERY COWS ARE WATCHING

Stay to the white, pass on the right,
Don't shine your light in a shelter at night...
The avery cows are watching...
Pittsia Bovinovia

Don't excite a pigeon in flight,
Don't stop for sight where mosquitos bite...
The avery cows are watching...
Slotoeykins... the beloved

Evade detection of your cellular connection,
Concealed in your bivy, speak while in the privy...
The avery cows are watching...
Tim Rich....the well connected

Be part of the quota and register often.
Pay no heed to Avery who spins in his coffin.
The avery cows are watching
k-7 ...the over caffeinated

Avoid packin' umbrellas, fine ladies, good fellas...
When turned inside-out, they'll provide you no clout!
the avery cows are watching.
Landslides (moo..ve over, new poet here)

Beware of cow pies that your footware might snag
They may be radio monitors in drag
the avery cows are watching.
anklebear..the underestimated

The one with the bell, is the one that will tell,
if you hike during the night, or do all the white!
the avery cows are watching.
Slyman ....the wiseman

Spurn GPS, taste watercress,
Heaven forbid if you hike in a dress . . .
the avery cows are watching
the still--Rhymin' Worm

Visit the king who sits in the Center
He says who must leave and who may enter.
the avery cows are watching
annonymous...the shy

Bovine avery monitors..Only in Hot Springs they'll be seen
Praise the hoof_in_ mouth quarantine
the avery cows are watching
David.......with Chainsaw

Stop in at the Center, we'll tattoo your head
Or implant a chip if you'd like that instead.
the avery cows are watching
kahley.....the tattooist

TJ did warn us, right from the start.
It's sheep that are dumb, cows are too smart
To clutter their hike by watching the rest.
They just make their hike into one of the best.
Keep your eyes peeled for those subjects of loathing.
Some cows may be sheep dressed up in cow clothing......

the avery sheep are watching.....

[Nightwalker]

I coined the term "hiker trash".

I think that was "inspired" not "coined." Slight difference. (Cheese eating grin)

[Nightwalker]

Actually the success rate for the PCT and CDT are close to 50%.

Many people don't realize this, but in elevation change per mile, the AT is the steepest of the Triple Crown. Resupply for the CDT is most difficult, however.

There are more factors that go into these things than simple stats. On my most recent long-ish hike, I went five days between seeing another human. By the fifth day, I was talking to myself, out loud, in two different voices, occasionally with accents. I tended to lean towards Scottish, working-class English, and Australian. Was that insane? I don't think so. I didn't get lonely. It was a very good coping mechanism. I laughed a lot. I didn't think those voices were real, and the Scottish guy kept harassing me up the river gorges. It was actually kind of fun.

Actually, I guess OB could chirp in on the insane/inane part, but it worked for me--and we all do whatever it takes. All I know is that I was sad when I came to the end of the trail.

Frank/Nightwalker