Anyone know why the AT Thru-Hikers companion was taken offline?

[ARambler]

I stumbled on this similar example. The Good Beer Guide lists the best pubs in Great Britten that serve "Real Ale" (cask beer). This Camra guide was responsible for reviving traditional British beer, and lead to the start of the USA microbrew revolution a quarter century ago.
Prices:
Members: $ 16 +P&H
NonMembers: $ 21 +P&H
iPhone App: $8
Obviously, there are more production costs for their iPhone app than just a pdf file. Camra has more volunteers and much more content in their guide. They also have more institutional and marketing expenses that need to be supported from sales of this guide. They also have much higher sale to bring down the printing costs.
Rambler

[TheChop]

(Plus, nothing can replace the sound and feel of a page turning in your hand)

You know you say this and I thought this until I got this Kindle thing. Sitting down with a good book and comfortably reading is nice. Being able to lay in bed, not have to worry about bending pages, keeping the book open, etc. is very nice as well.

In regards to Sly. This is just the way publishing is headed. In one way I can see the Companion not being the trail blazer. :rimshot: But in another way independent authors and publishers will be the vanguards in this as they are more nimble and can more easily respond to consumer demand. I'm pointing this out not so much to say the Companion should go to this model but more to say someone thinking they should get the digital copy as well as the physical copy is not exactly asking for two steaks at a restaurant or asking for something unreasonable and crazy. One of the reasons this model hasn't taken off is due to deciding how you divide the proceeds if you've got a physical distributor and a digital distributor which is exactly the situation the Companion is in.

And thanks for all the work on the book btw. One of the reasons I'm going Kindle only is so I can take both the Companion and the AT Guide... and Dune and Harry Potter and East of Eden and...

[Jeff]

ALDHA is a great organization and The Gathering is a "must" for anyone interested in reconnecting with old hiker friends. I support any Companion change of policy that would encourage folks to join ALDHA.

The annual ALDHA hiker directory has allowed me to stay in touch with hikers who had disappeared from my radar screen !!!

[WisconsinHiker2011]

I own the 2011 guide and it is awesome. I strongly suggest all purchase it.

[LovelyDay]

I am an ATC member; if I were to purchase the 2011 paperback edition would I get a complimentary .pdf to go with it? The online version of the Companion comes in handily as I have three paperback editions at home with missing pages that were ripped out and taken with me along the trail. Don't ask me why I am still saving them and the Data Books. Last year I was able to print out only those pages that I needed to complete my section (300-miles). Many have overlooked the fact that the electronic version only takes seconds to search for references that would otherwise take much longer if manually thumbing through approx 255 printed pages.
This poll sounds like a done deal ~ pay the $$$ and get your download. If so, please provide a means other than electronic to submit payment. I DO NOT use my credit card online for anything!

[Graywolf]

I suspect this has nothing to do with a "non-profit trying to go profit".

ALDHA's never been about money or making money.

I suspect it's merely a case of an organization being taken advantage of for years and people using their work/services for free, and they're tired of it.

Funny thing. Where I live, everyone talks about how willing they are to support local stores; bookshops; independent outfitters; etc. They're all willing, so they say, to pay more in order to support these places and keep them going.

Funny thing is that reality interfered and many of these places in my community are gone, precisely because local people would NOT support them, or would rather save a few bucks getting something for cheap on line.....or in cases like the Companion, would rather get something for free on-line.

This isn't about a non-profit turning money-grubby after decades of giving stuff away for free. All they're saying is hey.....if you like this and think it's worth something, pay for it. If you don't, well buy something else. But the fact that ALDHA has given it's information and knowledge away for free for years does not mean that it's obligated to do this forever.

Thats the reason I said to make the previous guides PDF and the current you have to buy. My understanding is the previous years, the guides are not for sale anyway, so why charge for something that isnt there?

Make the previous guide on PDF format, OR even the year before that. Charge for the current years guides.

Graywolf

[Roland]

Thats the reason I said to make the previous guides PDF and the current you have to buy. My understanding is the previous years, the guides are not for sale anyway, so why charge for something that isnt there?

Make the previous guide on PDF format, OR even the year before that. Charge for the current years guides.

Graywolf

ALDHA volunteers produce the Companion each year, so that ATC can publish and sell it. It's one way ALDHA supports the ATC.

So how would giving away an electronic version of the Companion benefit the ATC?

Sly has stated that the ALDHA board is considering using the online Companion as an incentive to boost membership. Join ALDHA and get the online Companion free of charge. And since ALDHA supports ATC, boosting ALDHA membership indirectly increases support for ATC.

Seems to make sense to me.

[Frosty]

Damn. I use that for all of my section hikes. Time to buy an old guide used to ensure they get no profit from me.

I don't understand the outrage. For years they provided a free product for people to use, expecting consumers to buy the hard copy and use the online version for convenience. When consumers leeched off them and sales went down, they pulled the plug and now you have to buy it same as any other guide. What other guide is free and why would you expect it for nothing anyway?

ALDHA is a non-profit organization, so they get no profit no matter what you do. Your money doesn't go into someone's pockets as with other guides (not that anyone ever got rich publishing an AT guide where breaking even is probably the goal in this labor of love), it goes right back to the trail.

Do the right thing. Send them the money for an hard copy guide. It isn't like it is a huge expense. How much do you spend a year on hiking, including gear, gas, food and lodging? $12 a year is nothing compared to the total. It is probably the cheapest expense item of the year. Get the latest information. Help the trail. Buy a new Companion every year.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Conclusion: Lots / many / some hikers will yogi anything and everything they can.

[Sly]

This poll sounds like a done deal ~ pay the $$$ and get your download. If so, please provide a means other than electronic to submit payment. I DO NOT use my credit card online for anything!

It's not poll but if you'd like to join ALDHA (only $10 per year), where the PDF Companion will be freely available, along with a quarterly Newsletter and a member Directory, I'll attach a brochure, and you can mail in a check. Once the ALDHA Companion page is updated (hopefully this week) it will have instructions on how to get the PDF

[Hikes in Rain]

Hmm...hard copy: $12
Join ALDHA, receive PDF version and other benefits: $10

Sounds like a deal to me!

[Sickmont]

Hmm...hard copy: $12
Join ALDHA, receive PDF version and other benefits: $10

Sounds like a deal to me!

Indeed. I concur.

[ARambler]

Hmm...hard copy: $12
Join ALDHA, receive PDF version and other benefits: $10

Sounds like a deal to me!

This assumes you are an ATC member and somehow get the shipping for free, and are not an ALDHA member.

I calculate:
Hard copy: $17.45 shipped.
pdf: drop $35 ATC membership and pay ALDHA membership and pocket $25.

If the money is more important the supporting trail organizations it is a real no-brainer.

Putting an old version on line is real mean thinking. Given that nobody prefers the old version, you are punishing everyone that wants the pdf for 1) its open binding, 2) ability to change the output size, 3) stay green and only print out this years section, 4) last minute availability, 5) ability to carry electronically, 6) lower cost, 7) leave a copy at home for support personnel and back-up and post hike reference, 8) maybe other reasons, 9) maybe all these reasons. We need more people who would like to support hikers and less people who want to be lawyers.

Yes ALDHA is sacrificing some of their values of being the greatest service to the hiking community. However, ALDHA needs new members and the proposal is not much of a burden to the hikers.
Rambler

[mikec]

Yes, they probably should charge for it online as well as in book form as the Companion is a valuable resource. Maybe it's just me but does anyone notice that the trail updates as well as updates to the Companion have not been updated in awhile on the ATC site? I know that the AT is constantly changing. I have even reported things like hotels closing near the trail in the past but they don't get included in the updates. This area is a great service to hikers. Especially section hikers.

[Sly]

We constantly update the Companion through the ATC website. Here are the updates that took place during calendar year for the 2010 Companion

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site..._Companion.htm

This morning I emailed Matt to archive 2010 (which will be found on the bottom of the page) and add two updates for the 2011 book. If you have any updates contact me through the link in my sig or contact the ATC through the update page. We both readily share info.

Yes, they probably should charge for it online as well as in book form as the Companion is a valuable resource. Maybe it's just me but does anyone notice that the trail updates as well as updates to the Companion have not been updated in awhile on the ATC site? I know that the AT is constantly changing. I have even reported things like hotels closing near the trail in the past but they don't get included in the updates. This area is a great service to hikers. Especially section hikers.

[WisconsinHiker2011]

I am guessing the 2011 version will get updates as well?

I am going to become a member if it gets updates!

[Sly]

I am guessing the 2011 version will get updates as well?

I am going to become a member if it gets updates!

Yes, 2011 and beyond will have updates throughout the year. Although they haven't been posted to the ATC Companion Updates page as of yet, (rumor has it they're launching a new website) here are two....

Hot Springs

ArtiSun Gallery and Marketplace— (828) 662-3573 Owned and operated by former thru-hiker Sunny aka Sunrise ’02. Just over the railroad tracks, only 10 feet from AT! Open 7 days during hiker season. Serving organic, fair trade coffee and espresso, fine wine and home baked goods. Free Wi-Fi. Will hold UPS and Fed-ex drop boxes (sorry, no USPS) delivered to 16 S Andrews St, Hot Springs, NC 28743

Franklin, NC


7th Annual Hiker Fool Bash- April 1-2. Sponsored by Ron Haven & the Sapphire Inn (828) 524-4406 <www.thesapphireinn.com> Music, entertainment, fun & food. Camping for hikers.
761 E.Main Street Franklin, NC 28734

[TJ aka Teej]

It's not poll

Just wondering, Sly - have you and the board decided to ahead and ignore the will of the ALDHA membership that voted this down several times? You want to encourage people to join an organization where their vote is asked for - and ignored?

Why not wait, put your case to the membership again, and try to win the vote?

[Sly]

Teej, what was voted down once in 2003 was to take the online companion off line and sell it outright.

It's now 2011 and many are using Kindle's and smartphones capable of using the PDF.

As Companion Editor, what I proposed to the board, in order to increase and maintain membership, was to make it free to the members of ALDHA and sell it at a reasonable price to non-members.

I made the proposal, as far as I know the proposal was made into a motion, which will probably be seconded and voted on in the next few days.

The reason I decided not to wait until the Spring meeting or the Gathering is it would take another year to implement, if not longer. The guide is ready now and will be back online soon, one way or another.

Teej, I have to ask, are you a current ALDHA member?

Just wondering, Sly - have you and the board decided to ahead and ignore the will of the ALDHA membership that voted this down several times? You want to encourage people to join an organization where their vote is asked for - and ignored?

Why not wait, put your case to the membership again, and try to win the vote?

[TJ aka Teej]

Teej, what was voted down once in 2003 was to take the online companion off line and sell it outright.

Jim Owen (who has been to more Gathers than you or I) told you it's been voted on several times. 2003 was the only Google citation a search returned.

Teej, I have to ask, are you a current ALDHA member?

I'm getting newletters, so probably - I have to ask, Why? Were you going to scold me if I needed to renew? I certainly was a member when I joined the majority and voted No at two Hanovers and a Gettysburg on the motion to take down the free-view version.

I'm not really sure you want to be advocating disenfranchising the membership because the people they've voted into office think the membership is too dumb to have their votes taken seriously.
And I mean that in the nicest way.