Tarptent question

[10-K]

I took my new TT Rainbow out on a 3 night hike this week and on the last night we were in one of those "howling winds, driving rain" storms on the side of a mountain.

One thing I noticed is that a fine mist seemed to somehow come through the tent walls - at first I thought it was my imagination but I put my headlight on and could see the reflections of the mist. It was almost like someone was spraying a flower mister every few minutes or something.

It wasn't devastating and nothing go seriously wet but in the morning everything in my tent was damp even though no rain entered the tent directly. Condensation was not an issue.

Is this something unique to Tarptents? I've been through some serious weather, including a tropical storm, in my Lunar Solo/Duo and have never experienced this before.

[bigcranky]

I don't know if there is any real difference in the two brands, but in my own experience, I had the misting in a Double Rainbow and went through a similar storm in a Lunar Duo without. That said, it's really difficult to compare the strength of the rain storm several months apart...

[swamp dawg]

Go to the Tarptent home page and click on the Frequently Asked Questions section. Look for the question about sylicone impregnated nylon and the misting problem. Henry explains the misting problem. We have serious rain down here in the southeast as oppose to West coast rain. Heading north......swamp dawg

[Franco]

Yes you can get misting by penetration.
The silnylon used by TT and SMD (and others...) is rated at 1200mm , that means it can hold a column of water 1200mm high without leaking.
If the rain drops are large enough they build up more pressure than the 1200mm rating can hold.
Not common at all but it does happen.
BTW, there are several other tent fabrics in use that (inc Epic and polyester) have a rating between 800 and 1500 mm (31"-59")
Polyester has usually a PU coating. The thicker the coating the more waterproof it becomes but the heavier it will be.
PU coating also weakens the fabric and it can (and eventually will) perish, ( the sticky/smelly tent fabric you read about)
I did some tests with the TT sil and verified the waterhead.
Just to try it , I painted a very thin coat of silicone on a piece of the fabric (much higher dilution then when seam sealing) that took the waterhead to about 2000mm.
But I have not bothered doing any of my shelters with that.
Franco
[email protected]

[Franco]

The mist penetrating the silnylon has very little pressure so it will not penetrate the liner. This is a picture of the liner holding about 16 liters of water.

I left it there all day, no drips...
Franco

[10-K]

Impressive!

The mist penetrating the silnylon has very little pressure so it will not penetrate the liner. This is a picture of the liner holding about 16 liters of water.

I left it there all day, no drips...
Franco

[garlic08]

The mist penetrating the silnylon has very little pressure so it will not penetrate the liner. This is a picture of the liner holding about 16 liters of water.

I left it there all day, no drips...
Franco

One would not expect any leaks unless the test exceeded 1200mm of head pressure. Scaling off the bicycle, it doesn't look like the test exceeded 400mm of head. The volume or total weight does not matter--the height of the column does.

Still, the point is valid about the liner seeing very little pressure.

I have experienced pretty heavy misting in my Tarptent. I was also convinced it was condensation being knocked off by heavy rain until I also read TT's website. I have always been able to deal with it using my bandanna. I've been so happy with TT's excellent designs I've never considered switching mfrs.

[10-K]

Of course like Big Cranky said you can't compare storms readily but I've spent more than 90 days in my Lunar Solo/Duo tents and those included some serious storms - worse than the one last night - and I've never had any kind of misting problem -ever-. Strange that it would happen with my Rainbow on the first storm.

Are you sure they use the exact same material?

Yes you can get misting by penetration.
The silnylon used by TT and SMD (and others...) is rated at 1200mm , that means it can hold a column of water 1200mm high without leaking.
If the rain drops are large enough they build up more pressure than the 1200mm rating can hold.
Not common at all but it does happen.
BTW, there are several other tent fabrics in use that (inc Epic and polyester) have a rating between 800 and 1500 mm (31"-59")
Polyester has usually a PU coating. The thicker the coating the more waterproof it becomes but the heavier it will be.
PU coating also weakens the fabric and it can (and eventually will) perish, ( the sticky/smelly tent fabric you read about)
I did some tests with the TT sil and verified the waterhead.
Just to try it , I painted a very thin coat of silicone on a piece of the fabric (much higher dilution then when seam sealing) that took the waterhead to about 2000mm.
But I have not bothered doing any of my shelters with that.
Franco
[email protected]

[ronmoak]

Of course like Big Cranky said you can't compare storms readily but I've spent more than 90 days in my Lunar Solo/Duo tents and those included some serious storms - worse than the one last night - and I've never had any kind of misting problem -ever-. Strange that it would happen with my Rainbow on the first storm.

Are you sure they use the exact same material?

To be accurate, both Henry and I purchase our Silnylon from the same source. However, they carry two different styles of Silnylon with different coatings.

Henry uses one version, I use the other. The version I'm using has more coating. I believe Henry likes the other version because it's stretch works better with the shape of his tents. But, you'll have to check with him directly to confirm that.

Since switching to the new Silnylon several years ago, I've had no reports of misting on our tents.

Also for anyone interested, we've started our Scratch and Dent sale today. You can pickup a Lunar Duo at a really good price.

Ron

[10-K]

Also for anyone interested, we've started our Scratch and Dent sale today. You can pickup a Lunar Duo at a really good price.

Ron

The Lunar Duo is, without a doubt, my favorite piece of gear. You hit the jackpot with that one.

I recommend it every chance I get - at the S&D price of $240 it's no-brainer.

[couscous]

Q: Is silicone-impregnated ripstop nylon waterproof?.
A: Silicone impregnated ripstop nylon is waterproof within "normal operating conditions." In very heavy rain and high velocity wind-driven rain some extremely light interior misting is normal and equivalent to increased interior humidity.
- http://www.tarptent.com/faq.html

[10-K]

Dang, how about that... "high velocity wind-driven rain" is a perfect description of what we were in.

At least I'm not going crazy or imagining things....

So I wonder if the liner would address that - probably so?

[Spokes]

Q: Is silicone-impregnated ripstop nylon waterproof?.
A: Silicone impregnated ripstop nylon is waterproof within "normal operating conditions." In very heavy rain and high velocity wind-driven rain some extremely light interior misting is normal and equivalent to increased interior humidity.
- http://www.tarptent.com/faq.html

Am I the only one here that thinks it's funny to list "normal operating conditions" when talking about sil-nylon waterproof qualities?

It's like putting "normal operating conditions" on a tooth brush container.
Bizarre-o!

[10-K]

Am I the only one here that thinks it's funny to list "normal operating conditions" when talking about sil-nylon waterproof qualities?

It's like putting "normal operating conditions" on a tooth brush container.
Bizarre-o!

I've got one of those reflective windshield things that keep the car cool and there is a sticker on it that says, "WARNING: DO NOT USE WHILE DRIVING"

[Snowleopard]

It can be hard to distinguish between misting coming through the fabric and condensation on the inner surface being knocked off by the force of rain hitting the exterior surface. My guess would be it's condensation being banged off by the force of wind and rain. The rain was probably cold which would contribute to condensation. The liner probably would help some, but I can't guess how much.
Much more discussion here: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-...to_post=111477
--Walter

[10-K]

No, believe me, this was definitely misting. It has a certain force to it - like it was being pushed (or should I say, sprayed).

In fact, I had a sponge with me and kept the tent wiped down even though it wasn't condensing enough to be absolutely necessary. With the winds blowing 40+ mph ventilation was not an issue at all.

It can be hard to distinguish between misting coming through the fabric and condensation on the inner surface being knocked off by the force of rain hitting the exterior surface. My guess would be it's condensation being banged off by the force of wind and rain. The rain was probably cold which would contribute to condensation. The liner probably would help some, but I can't guess how much.
Much more discussion here: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-...to_post=111477
--Walter

[skinewmexico]

I've always wondered about using the same mix used for seam sealing, and just painting the flat area on the top of the tent. Wish Franco would test that.

[10-K]

I've always wondered about using the same mix used for seam sealing, and just painting the flat area on the top of the tent. Wish Franco would test that.

I had the exact same idea.....

By the time it's seam sealed, add a liner and coat the top I'll have the only 4 lb UL TT on the planet!

The design is fantastic but the misting issue is worrisome living down here in the SE like I do... I don't care about condensation - I can cope with that by site selection and a sponge but the misting issue is unavoidable and you can't wipe it up because it's a spray.

And, I must say it was information that was readily available - my bad for not doing my research. I'm going to hang in there with it but it is a downer.

I'd give anything to have a Rainbow made out of the material SMD uses.

(well, not *anything* but you know what I mean....)

[10-K]

What am I saying... coating the top wouldn't have helped... the mist was coming in from the side opposite the door - probably because that's the way the wind was blowing I'd guess. You'd about have to coat the entire tent to eliminate it.

If a liner will fix it and not give use suck up a lot of room I'll be plenty happy.

Like I say, I really like the tent - especially the design - so I'm not actually b*tching - it was just an unexpected surprise in a not-so-good kind of way.

[300winmag]

I painted the top 1/2 of my TT Moment with a 5:1 ratio of odorless mineral spirits to GE Silicone II caulk. Keep it in a screw top plastic bottle and shake well every 3 minutes.

This is my solution to preventing the dreaded "mist -thru" of silnylon. It adds maybe an ounce of weight on a silnylon solo tent.

Eric