Bathing in a stream
lather up!
Downstream Please !!
The more I learn ...the more I realize I don't know.
Downstream, no soap.
"Downstream" to you is "upstream" to everyone else below you. Those voting "no" have never crossed and re-crossed the same stream, i.e. they haven't walked the AT. I don't want to have to strain someone else's crotch gum out of my water and drink your hair-fouled soap scum just because a few miles back/ahead and above me you thought you were "downstream" from the trail.
If you need to get clean that much, take a pot of water and do what EVERY "Leave No Trace" trainer in the world will say...get 100 feet away from any water source and any trail or campsite to do your thing.
The Weasel
"Thank God! there is always a Land of Beyond, For us who are true to the trail..." --- Robert Service
So...what is the census on sitting in a stream on a 100% day to cool off???
Is it okay - if no soap and washing is involoved?
Never get wet unless it is with a bucket away from the water source or rain. Is it okay if it is a pond, river, lake....? Inquiring minds want to know. HH
Hammock Hanger -- Life is my journey and I'm surely not rushing to the "summit"...:D
http://www.gcast.com/u/hammockhanger/main
Sitting in a stream, without using soap?
You bet. Great way to cool off and rinse off. Always looking for a good place for a dip on a warm summer day.
I've heard you shouldn't go in a stream when wearing bug dope. What does DEET do to fish? Otherwise, is there a difference between swimming and bathing without soap?
A lot of this is dependant on the size of the stream, There is a big differance between a dip in the kennebec (sp?) and a small spring. On the matter of deet and sweat, rinsing off away from the stream prior to a dip might be a good idea.
stream bathing...
i believe as long as you're using "environmentally friendly" soap-wash in a quick moving stream....you're doing nothing wrong.
enjoy the cool dip!
see ya'll out there in 2004!
36 people said NO???? No wonder so many people get sick. My opinion of human intelligence continues to sink. In almost three completions (and countless gear lists) I have never seen anyone else carry a collapsible bucket for washing. What is more amazing, many of you complain about dirty shelters when we're drinking each others bath water.
Wrong. Soap really isn't that environmental friendly. Keep all soaps away from streams and water.Originally Posted by jaybird
i believe as long as you're using "environmentally friendly" soap-wash in a quick moving stream....you're doing nothing wrong.
enjoy the cool dip!
see ya'll out there in 2004!
welp, I used to wear a "bathing" suit when I went swimming, so that's one thing.
biodegradable is good too right?
you're never going to stop people from doing things, especially if it's summer, and especially if it's hot out.
I've washed up many a time in a river, both with bio soap and with the sand on the bottom de river. Will most likely do it again.
I'll walk down stream with my coke bottle, then wash up with soap on the bank; much closer than the prescribed 100 feet.
Perhaps just my own rationalization for lazyness, but I figure if our shallow (but to code) leach fields work enough to protect my family and neighborhood wetlands from raw sewage and their diaper washing, then a few dabs of J & J shampoo will be well filtered with a very small buffer of dirt between me and the stream.
If the good folks at LNT were to provide evidence to the contrary, I would be quick to change my violation of the rules. Sometime these rules of thumb seem to be acepted wisdom simple because they have been repeated so much. If everyone walked 100 feet into the woods to wash and to pee, I expect that more damage would be cause by footsteps than could be justified on the basis of protecting surface water.
But again, I can rationalize anything. The experts at LNT and AMC and most other responsible groups clearly think differently than I do. To make up for my transgression I neither wash my car not fertilize/treat my lawn.
Rick B
You are clearly not alone. The vast majority of people on this site practice the same "leave as much unsanitary disqusting trace as possible". Actually you are far better than most who wash directly in the stream. Thank you. The people who do not filter their water need to read this thread.
Actually, the opposite is true. All except specialized use, high phosphate detergents are environmentally friendly. At least I have yet to see any scientific studies that reported the contrary.
As for washing in streams it is more of an aesthetic, than an enviromental and health problem. I don't do it because other hikers frown on the practice.
The difference between bathing your feet in a stream or sitting in a stream, compared with taking a soap bath is merely one of degrees. Soap removes more of your sweat and dirt. It is harmless by itself, as near as I can tell and I've been asking for authoritative evidence to the contrary ever since phosphates were removed from most detergents 3 or 4 decades ago.
Weary
Weary
I'm carrying a collapsible bucket on my upcoming thru. It weighs under 4 oz and holds 2.6 gallons. Its called the Kitchen Sink form Sea to Summit and its great for gathering water, wahing dishes, bathing, etc.
http://www.seatosummitusa.com/access.html
Peterawk
History will not judge us on our so called "progress," but on what we allow to endure.
YES. I got mine from LLBean years ago and they no longer carry them. Thank you for not turning the other thrus into scum suckers.
Weary, talk to any Biologist or Biochemist. Soap disrupts cell activity. True it only causes humans to be sick, but microorganisms are killed (thats why you wash your hands). As it works it's way up the food chain it can also kill amphibians and fish. Many things that it does not kill are harmed. You are still fighting for phosphates, why???
I think my opinion on this matter depends on your definition of bathing. If we are talking about jumping into a cold stream with "holes" that are deep enough to sit in, I really have no problem with it. When you use soap, even if it is biodegradable, it is hazardous to the environment being dumped directly into the water. If you use your soap when "bathing" do as others suggest and use a bucket that you dump more than 100 feet from the water source when you are done. As for a cold dip once in a while, how can one resist when it's 90 degrees outside!
I suppose if you eat enough soap, you could get sick. And I suppose some microrganisms could be killed, though mostly I wash my hands to wash away microorganisms.
The alleged environmental harm of soap grew out of the era of high phosphate detergents when rivers would foam to depths of several feet below every polluted waterfall. There never was much evidence that this was more than an aesthetic problem. In any case the amount used in the backcountry never had any measureable impact in most places.
I know the stories have been repeated over the decades and like all stories they have changed, evolved and expanded. But I have not yet found a fisheries biologist who can cite any research that shows any harm done by politically incorrect users of soap to salamanders and fish, at least in the quantities likely to be used along the Appalachian Trail.
If all trail hikers carried a sliver of Ivory Soap and used it occasionally, the trail enviroment would not be measureably deteriorated, if at all. Some might even consider the environment improved.
However, I'm still looking for evidence to the contrary.
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