AMC in the 100-mile-wilderness

[takethisbread]

You're probably not a big fan of Vermont either are you?

I thought VT had longer stretches of roots than ME.... maybe a perception error on my part but I didn't think ME was *that* bad until towards the end of the 100 mile wilderness.

Well that stretch is what we are talking about. (100 mile) you are right its mostly in that area. but i live in New England and hike all 5 states often, love vermont, and while vermont has many boggy, rotted out and rooty areas on the AT, i think it has some very nice stretches of trail to balance it out. The 100 mile blows all the way.

I guess i should just stop being a pu$$y and quit bitching.

[TJ aka Teej]

To me all that is important is the tiny 24 inch strip that i walk on. that is the essential part.

So go walk on sidewalks.

[weary]

The AMC's move into the Outdoor Entertainment Industry continues.

Well, I'm not sure entertainment is the right word. AMC provides outdoor opportunities in more luxurious accommodations than I prefer or can afford. Much of what AMC offers is not my preferred kind of outdoors. But AMC does require one to walk quite a few miles in between their various offerings of meals and beds.

I also like the sense of self sufficiency of a well-stocked backpack, rather than having my gear delivered by snowmobile.

[The Old Fhart]

Powder River-“…I find it curious that with all the thousands of acres of woods in Maine they built these lodges right next to the Appalachian Trail, and in the 100 mile wilderness. Reminds me of those developers that used to pollute Yosemite, Yellowstone and the Grand Canyon with toll booths and hotels. They were driven out, but the AMC was not because they were smart enough to do a little trail work on the side.”

The above quote gives completely wrong information and totally distorts the facts. First, The AMC can’t be driven off private land that they own. Second, They are using or rebuilding camps that have existed for generations, not building a string of new huts on Federal land as you seem to imply. Third, if the AMC hadn’t bought these lands to protect them from commercial development you could be seeing countless condos in these areas instead of the few existing camps. Finally, it is being egocentric to believe that the small number of thru hikers should control land usage when the majority of users, and MATC members have never hiked the entire A.T. and have other interests. Also note that the area around the AMC lodges isn’t close to being wilderness and the AMC post the following for anyone going to the camps:

“WARNING: The area around AMC's Maine Wilderness Lodges is a working forest with active logging taking place along many access roads. Always yield to logging trucks and other heavy equipment and pull well off the road where possible.”

Check the quotes below for a more realistic assessment of the AMC and the lodges. Despite your claiming that A.T. hikers are going to be bumping into AMC lodges “right next to the Appalachian Trail”, the closest lodge (Gorman Chairback ) is a mile from the A.T. and some of the others as far as 8 miles away. Check this map showing the AMC lands and lodges, and the A.T., to get the true picture. You will notice the A.T. is in a corridor outside of the AMC lands and that it is monitored for any infractions of the guidelines governing the A.T..

"The AMC, working within its innovative Maine Woods Initiative, bought the Roach Ponds tract from the Plum Creek Timber Company for $11.5 million, all raised from private sources. AMC partnered with the State of Maine, The Nature Conservancy, and the Forest Society of Maine to clinch the deal.

The AMC envisions a permanent lodge-to-lodge trail that incorporates the existing Medawisla Wilderness Lodge and the Little Lyford Pond Lodge with the upcoming Gorman Chairback Lodge (planned to open in 2011). The AMC will not only be able to protect the AT corridor and its viewshed, but also be able to create new trails in this remote and beautiful landscape."

"Gorman Chairback was first built as a private camp in 1867, and was a commercial camp until 1990. Since the AT used to travel directly through that area, it was also a re-supply stop for through-hikers. AMC acquired the camp just 3.5 years ago, though they purchased the surrounding 38,000 acres about 7 years ago"

[takethisbread]

So since you don't care about "land development or protection," then it matters not to you if the lands outside your 24 inch strip consists of housing developments, WalMarts, golf courses, fences with "Private Property - No Trespassing" signs et. al.? You're perfectly happy with coming to a viewpoint that looks down on a "planned resort community" where once acres of hardwoods stood?

No, I didn't think so.

To you, the most important priority appears to be busting rocks to make your walking easier. To me, the most important priority is ensuring the AT corridor (much wider than 24"!) is preserved and protected so that we and future generations may enjoy the beauty of the Appalachian forestlands and eveything this eco-region entails - the trees, plants, bodies of water, wildlife, and yes, the rocks.

Re. the AMC, their role and their approach has been discussed ad nauseam on WB over the years. All I'll say now is that on balance, I thnk they've been a force for good. That's not to say they're perfect or I agree with everything they do. IMO, more of their facilities should have low-cost options e.g. tenting areas for hikers and others who don't want to fork over the big $$$. Mizpah Springs Hut in the Whites with its tent platforms is an example which could be replicated at other facilities. Not only would this serve many trail users, it would also temper AMC's elitist image.

You are taking it a little too literal, we all care about the perimeter and halting unsightly development, but the primary purpose is the path between Maine and Georgia, therefore one should prioritize the path, not like i said slap a white blaze lazily on a tree and call it a trail, when it really isnt, and having folks trudging along over those roots and into those bogs is not exactly leaving no trace. It behooves the enviroment and the hiker to find a suitable path, not easy mind you, just more of a comprimise between man and nature. right now, in that particular section, it serves neither

[walkin' wally]

Quote:
"Gorman Chairback was first built as a private camp in 1867, and was a commercial camp until 1990. Since the AT used to travel directly through that area, it was also a re-supply stop for through-hikers. AMC acquired the camp just 3.5 years ago, though they purchased the surrounding 38,000 acres about 7 years ago"

O.F.

I don't think anyone built a lodge like the one now at Gorman Chairback in 1867.

[The Old Fhart]

walkin' wally-

"O.F.

I don't think anyone built a lodge like the one now at Gorman Chairback in 1867."

Absolutely true. That is partly because they couldn't have built one like this back then and no one would build an inefficient new one like they did in the 1800s.

[This is one of] "only a handful of backcountry facilities in the nation, to be LEED-registered.................The new lodge building at Gorman Chairback was designed by LDa Architecture and Design. The property is off the grid, and power is supplied by solar panels. Other environmentally sensitive features include double-glazed, argon-filled windows, extensive insulation, radiant heat in floors, and use of a biomass heating system."

This in no way affects someone hiking on the A.T. a mile away although it might entice them to stay there.

[bishopj]

The thing is the money they do get and up in someone pocket and is not use for the trail
or to do any work on the trail.

[walkin' wally]

[QUOTE=The Old Fhart;1114722]walkin' wally-
Absolutely true. That is partly because they couldn't have built one like this back then and no one would build an inefficient new one like they did in the 1800s.

I guess what I meant is the Lodge doesn't really fit in there, IMO. They are saying how original the camps are, but not everything is. But times change...

At least they aren't buying Kingdom Lots and keeping everyone out.

[hikerboy57]

The thing is the money they do get and up in someone pocket and is not use for the trail
or to do any work on the trail.

last I checked, the money they collect is from donations. I dont remember them charging you a fee for hiking a trail.If you dont want to support the AMC, then you can still support the ATC as well as your local hiking group

[mudhead]

The condition of the trail in Maine is deplorable. Anything to improve that I am for. Erosion has left the 100 mile into a tire drill of roots and rocks. It's not a trail.

I think the amc can be overbearing and costly, but the trail needs to be improved, hope this is a step in that direction

Well that stretch is what we are talking about. (100 mile) you are right its mostly in that area. but i live in New England and hike all 5 states often, love vermont, and while vermont has many boggy, rotted out and rooty areas on the AT, i think it has some very nice stretches of trail to balance it out. The 100 mile blows all the way.

I guess i should just stop being a pu$$y and quit bitching.

Criky- There's a gap in the spruce trees. What more do you want?

Quit yur bitchin'. Everyone knows Maine suks. No one should go there.

Now NH. That's what you want...

[woodsy]

Criky- There's a gap in the spruce trees. What more do you want?

Quit yur bitchin'. Everyone knows Maine suks. No one should go there.

Now NH. That's what you want...

I back up these statements 100%, NH is where its at .....

Maine is nothing but rocky peaks, Moose ****, bottomless bogs , rocks and roots higher than your knees.

[rickb]

TDespite your claiming that A.T. hikers are going to be bumping into AMC lodges “right next to the Appalachian Trail”, the closest lodge (Gorman Chairback ) is a mile from the A.T. and some of the others as far as 8 miles away. Check this map showing the AMC lands and lodges, and the A.T., to get the true picture. You will notice the A.T. is in a corridor outside of the AMC lands and that it is monitored for any infractions of the guidelines governing the A.T..

Thanks for the excellent post, OF.

The one thing that confuses me about the map you posted were the various places called campsites and shelter.

Is that a code word or something?

And what of other places within the boundary? Certainly one can't camp off-tail on the clubs land right?

Or can you?

[Cookerhiker]

I back up these statements 100%, NH is where its at .....

Maine is nothing but rocky peaks, Moose ****, bottomless bogs , rocks and roots higher than your knees.

And bugs and more bugs......can't forget about the bugs.

And leeches in the ponds.

[the_iceman]

The Whites was the most poorly maintained section of the AT. Half the time it was not even marked. The only thing the AMC maintains is the highways to the huts and thus their profits.

[restless]

Thanks for the excellent post, OF.

The one thing that confuses me about the map you posted were the various places called campsites and shelter.

Is that a code word or something?

And what of other places within the boundary? Certainly one can't camp off-tail on the clubs land right?

Or can you?

Having worked for AMC for their Maine Lands Project, and being based out of the Gorman Chairback camps at the time, I might be able to shed some light on your question. AMC has a shelter at Trout Pond, the Phoenix Shelter. This was constructed several years ago by AMC and volunteers from donations made to AMC. The shelter, as I recall has a plaque honoring the donors. It is very similar to the three sided structure found along the AT. AMC also has several established "campsites" on various ponds throughout this area. They are open to the public and are generally used by fisherman. The camps listed are the ones that are more developed such as Gorman Chairback or Little Lyford. These have separate cabins available as well as a common area lodge with kitchen, dining room,common area, etc. There have been major changes made to the original buildings but as they originally existed they would not have passed building and health codes. AMC made the upgrades to make them more "green" as well as to provide the public a place to stay. If anyone has ever been to LeConte Lodge in the Smokies, these AMC lodges would be comparable to LL. So far as I know, these lands are open to the public for hiking and camping, although most of the trails we built were designed primarily for winter recreational use, and the quality differs quite a bit from the AT.
While off subject, the AT in Maine faces a unique problem. The AT in Maine does not have a lot of public land such as one might be used to in GA,NC,TN,VA,Vt and NH. When the AT was laid out, the NPS acquired a narrow corridor for the trail, and as a result the AT was routed the most direct and scenic route, most of the time up the fall line. Roots and rocks and mud are a part of the experience of Maine and I'm not sure that anything that is done would improve that situation. AMC has done a great job in conserving the lands in that part of Maine and keeping them from development. Perhaps, in time MATC and AMC can find a way to reroute the trail around some perennial problem areas, perhaps even moving the trail back to it's originial route-through Gorman Chairback Camps. Not holding my breath, but I think it would be sort of neat.

[Cookerhiker]

The Whites was the most poorly maintained section of the AT. Half the time it was not even marked. The only thing the AMC maintains is the highways to the huts and thus their profits.

I hiked in the Whites both in 08 and 09 and didn't have a problem following the AT at all. The trail was always marked with blazes in the woods and above treeline with cairns. Whereas 30 years ago, the trail signs often only referred to the local trail names without specifying which ones were the AT, now all the signs identify which trails make up the AT.

[walkin' wally]

Criky- There's a gap in the spruce trees. What more do you want?

Quit yur bitchin'. Everyone knows Maine suks. No one should go there.

Now NH. That's what you want...

I thought we resolved this in 1820??

[10-K]

I hiked in the Whites both in 08 and 09 and didn't have a problem following the AT at all. The trail was always marked with blazes in the woods and above treeline with cairns. Whereas 30 years ago, the trail signs often only referred to the local trail names without specifying which ones were the AT, now all the signs identify which trails make up the AT.

The only place I had trouble was going SOBO up Mt. Mousilake (sp?)? I walked a long time without seeing a blaze - so long that I turned around sure that I'd missed a turnoff.

After I turned around I didn't see any blazes for a long time going the other way so I figured I'd turn around -again- and keep hiking the way I was originally going since I was going up and I knew the AT crossed the top of the mountain.

I bet I walked 2 solid hours without seeing a blaze before I finally saw one.

[Hikerhead]

The only place I had trouble was going SOBO up Mt. Mousilake (sp?)? I walked a long time without seeing a blaze - so long that I turned around sure that I'd missed a turnoff.

After I turned around I didn't see any blazes for a long time going the other way so I figured I'd turn around -again- and keep hiking the way I was originally going since I was going up and I knew the AT crossed the top of the mountain.

I bet I walked 2 solid hours without seeing a blaze before I finally saw one.

In good visability? SOBO up Mousilake (I'm not sure either) would be on the Beaver Brook trail and there's no way to get off of that. Past the shelter and around Mt Blue, we didn't have any problem there. Once out of tree line there were giant cairns up to the top with the orange summit sign. We did have a slight problem finding the trail south from there but it was like a 2 minute problem.