Thank You Matty...
Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.
Woo
anyway, back to the topic.
no one needs a weapon on the APPALACHIAN TRAIL for these reasons:
the trail corredor is policed by law enforcement agencys and resque personell of all manner ready and able to aid hikers in emergencys of all kinds
communications on the trail are thru cell phones, sat phones, internet, hostels boards, trail regesters and word of mouth.
matthewski
carrying weapons in a sociaty is like hanging food from bears. it dosnt work unless everybody does it. ive never carryed a weapon in the mountains of pa. but i could have at any time with my carry permit. its not cool. i cant mix hiking with the concerns of living at 16th and snyder and the asociated defensive requirments of that neighborhood. my trail is like my bathroom, i dont go in there all weaponized. lol.
matthewski
Thanks for the thoughts WOO, you won't hurt my feelings I promise. Yep the OP was about people but there were other comments specific to dogs. My advice is humane to dogs as it does no permanent damage only hurting an ATTACKING dog enough to release - and I STICK BY IT! When it's ripping its teeth into my arm I'm more concerned with my own safety, my own arm than I am an aggressive dogs welfare. Perhaps the animal is rabid or merely poorly trained - doesn't matter at that point, it's hurting me and I'm going to defend myself.
I welcome your criticism (and everyone elses) and appreciate your opinion. Perhaps you misunderstood what I meant by ramming my arm back into its mouth. If a dog has your arm, normally it's your forearm as you stuck it up that way in defense, longways where your arm is perpendicular to the dog. Look at your dogs teeth you'll notice they're fanged/hooked and designed to keep things in which is why you shouldn't yank your arm out, it will just bury their fang deeper and cause more damage. By pushing your arm the other direction, into their mouth it helps alleviate the pressure and you're going the direction they are pulling (yes they're also shaking their head in a ripping motion). Think also of the pivot point of their mouth. If you put your arm closer to the hinge they can't close their mouth on your arm. They release. Simple physics really working with the design of a dogs mouth.
I've had dogs literally all of my life and have one laying at my feet now. These aren't just my thoughts, they are my experience.
You don't need any weapons - pepper spray included - i've hiked 5,000 miles plus and run into my share of sketchy people, grizzly bears (yes) , black bears, rattlers, rednecks, scorpions, ticks, etc., etc. - my wit, brain, good senses, and fast feet have always worked just fine - for 25 years !!!!!! - no weapons !! - really, its ok.
Ok - I think I follow but just in case I missed your question, I'll give two answers...Originally Posted by mweinstone
1 - yes, bad guy can and do use their dogs to attack innocent/good people and it works exactly like the good guys using their dog. An innocent/good person is not going to convince the bag guys dog not to attack him
and
2 - yes, if a good guy such as a cop sends his dog to attack a guy who turns out to be a good guy or otherwise gives up, the cop can call off the attack. Being able to call off your dog (even as it is in mid-air and about to bite) is a critical task in K-9 units nationwide. If you cannot call off your dog, you will not get certified. As an example, a couple years ago, a bag guy was running away from the police. He had a child as a hostage but he held her in front of him and the police, who could only see his back, were unaware. A K-9 officer released his dog for a bite. The bad guy turned around and held out the child for the dog to bite. The officer called off the dog prior to it reaching the child and suspect.
Bonus Info: among other things, we also train our dogs to escort the suspect wherever we want such as back to the officer or over to the patrol car. The suspect is warned that if they run, the dog will automatically attack. Nifty stuff
I knew what I meant, why didn't you
I'll try to learn and be more descriptive. thx
Ho Ho......hooo
I think if you look -the mods erased it.
Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.
Woo
And that is where you are flat out wrong... as much as you or others may like to believe that LE is there to rescue or some how protect you, they are not. In the end they really only there to clean the mess.
Only you are responsible for your own protection where ever you are. You also have every right to decline to carry the tools necessary to protect yourself. But you are out of line to suggest that anyone else does not have a need to carry the tools to protect themselves.
igne et ferrum est potentas
"In the beginning, all America was Virginia." -William Byrd
i so am getting a copdog dammit. a sled team of artic copdogs. my first dog i remember was sam. samantha. a dalmation. and a retired fire dog belonged to the cheif. his prob was she ran after firetrucks. did that for us too. then ran to the cheifs house. then dad had to send one of us over when she diddnt come home. then the old crusty cheif would swear he was gonna not give her back and scare us. finaly when the kids got older and sam was alone, she chewed up the leather couch and dad gave her away. sam would have been a crappy trail dog and would have chased wildlife uncontrolably. if a woman feels more comfortable with a dog hiking, then shes useing the dog as a weapon in a remote sence. no ofence ment. but its cool to do i guess cause dogs love people and people love dogs no matter if they are working or if only one is.if any protection was acceptable for a lone hiker who feels the need, it is a dog.
but a human bodygaurd would piss me off.lol.
matthewski
@ Mountain Goat. I'm new here and it would seem the self defense/weaponry category is nearly as controversial and as widely opinionated as dogs on the trail and the dreaded "leash" word.
I myself find it hard to be impartial. I'm very passionate about the subject, the rights we do have and those that have been legislated away from us.
With that being said, I would like to offer a little more of my feelings more so than recommendations to include a few tales on myself for your own judgment and perhaps the entertainment of the other members of this site.
As I've stated in other posts I'm 6'2'' and 375 lbs. A firefighter, high school football player and I have fears and concerns just like everyone else in the world. My fears might be different? Like rapidly disintegrating toilet paper, people with small hands and cockroaches(shiver). I fear for my safety on the trail against those two legged and four. I fear things that I cannot control.
One of my biggest fears is being around people that are armed and uneducated. When I say uneducated, I don't mean one that doesn't have the ability to understand Cantonese or recite PI to 40 decimal places. I mean someone that doesn't understand or respect the safety, usage, legality, or lethality of the weapon/s they chose to carry. To be around someone that has the ability to seriously injure or kill me out of ignorance scares me more than showing up late to the krispy kreme donut shop late, after church.
I don't care what weapon someone using, whether it's a 4 ton Cadillac or a blow-dart gun from the Amazon. If that person doesn't follow those concepts, they scare me. They are obviously a danger to themselves as well.
I am a Concealed weapons Permit Holder in Florida. The great state has even gone so far as to make agreements with other states to see that reciprocity is extended to me in those states as well. The downside, is out of the 14 states that I will hike through, 6 of them will not allow me such privileges. Of the 8 that will allow me, I have to be concerned with their own local and state laws, not to mention the National Parks. So my options are very limited. Seeming silly given the 2nd amendment, but I digress.
Now, I have been mugged at knife-point while I was armed. In Florida, I was well within my rights to use deadly force against my attacker. I could tell this person wasn't rational and I was talking to drugs, not a human. I chose a different route. I always carry a fake wallet with me. The fake has junk mail credit cards, business cards of annoying people, five dollars and the telephone number of my local police dept. I told the guy that I had just got paid and I was really afraid of knives. His interest was then focused on the wallet. I gave him the fake and he ran off with it. At that range I had decided it wasn't worth risking my life or my fiances when I had other options.
I have trained with knives, guns other sorts of mischief. To this day what I think I should have done was not allow myself to get into that situation. It was a dark alley in Tampa and I was being cocky because I was with my girl and I was carrying. Since then I've tried my best to be more aware of my surroundings and try not to put myself into those situations. Your head can be a great weapon if you use it.
Sooo, as to avoid any other intelligent conversation, I'll add a final stupid thing I've done. I've been afforded many friendships with L.E.O.'s over the years to include K-9 units. Now I kept taunting one of our guys calling his dog a sissy and several other lovely names. He made a bet with me that if put on the training cuff and I let the dog attack it, he would give me 50 bucks. I cheerfully accepted. I lost 50 bucks and pulled grass out of my teeth while being laughed at by at least 10 of my buddies. sometimes it not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog.
The bet was to remain standing BTW.
If you feel like you need a weapon to protect yourself hiking the A.T. do yourself a favor and take a vacation some place where you'll feel safe and won't feel the need to have weapons to defend yourself. What an awful way to spend your free time, worried about being attacked by a psycho.
hiking together in groups of equal abilities and interests is a great idea.I think guns are only legal in the state you are liscensed to carry in,pepper spray will mess you up if you are spraying into the wind,and wasp/bee spray is very accurate for 15 to 20 feet.Peace of mind must be be your ultimate goal.
I want to hike with you Tater. I like hugs.
Mtn Goat: You can pick up Pepper Spray at Gander Mtn and other outdoor stores. They usually have a pretty good selection. I would advise you to get pepper spray that is used for protection against other humans. In other words don't get bear spray intending to use it on humans. In court it might come back to haunt you. Despite what you'll hear, pepper spray is VERY effective. It won't add much weight, so no worry there. I would recommend: Sabre Red. It comes in 70 gram cyl spray can. About a little over an inch in diameter and about 5 inches long. Good for hand use. Be sure to keep it always out of reach of children. The can has a safety feature which is real nice to prevent accidental push of the button. Take a look at it and you'll see immediately how it is set up. But, like others I don't think you'll need it on the trail. BUT . . . you never know and thats the hard part.
"Something hidden. Go and find it. Go, and look behind the Ranges. Something lost behind the Ranges. Lost and waiting for you . . . Go!" (Rudyard Kipling)
From SunnyWalker, SOBO CDT hiker starting June 2014.
Please visit: SunnyWalker.Net
I'm the psycho, that's why I'm not worried about psychos.
Just a thought. A recent Maine case suggests that the right to defend oneself may not be as black and white as some on White Blaze seem to think.
A man this winter was sentenced to life in prison for murdering two brothers. I believe from the newspaper accounts, that one of the brothers had been convicted a few months earlier for assaulting the guy who has now been convicted of the murders.
On the night of the killings, the two brothers were walking down the street, saw the killer on his porch. They walked onto the porch and one of the brothers "shoved" the killer and was shot. The other victim went to his brother's aid and was also shot to death.
The killer claimed self defense. Neither the jury nor the judge saw it that way.
One certainly has the right of self defense. But not with a weapon more powerful than is needed for that defense. At least in Maine, pending the results of appeals.
@ Tater-Awesome
@ Weary- I know Florida Law very well. It wouldn't include the above said story, not for a minute.
If it was up to all of the people on this thread there would never be a need for anything but shoes and a good time. The realist in me knows that criminals are just that, criminals. Laws only guide the lawful the same way that locks on doors keep honest people honest.
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