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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strategic View Post
    I was just up at Windsor Furnace shelter on a section and ran across a rather problematic situation. Here's the story.

    I was coming down into Windsor Furnace a bit late (I made the mistake of stopping in the Port Clinton Hotel for lunch, from which I only extracted myself after two beers and two and a half hours (but that's another story.) Thus I was a bit late getting down to the shelter, rolling in just before 8:00. As I was hiking up to the bridge over Furnace Creek I meet three other hikers going south, headed toward the blue blaze to the Hamburg lot. One said "going to the shelter?" I replied yes and they said what I thought was "we'll be back" but on later reflection might well have been "you'll be back", the meaning of which will rapidly become apparent.

    When I walked up the the shelter, it was occupied by two couples with an enormous amount of non-hiking gear spread around and two large tents pitched directly next to the shelter. They had a roaring fire going in the pit and were cooking a lot of stuff over it (ribs and corn as it turned out). I said hello, but it seemed obvious that they had basically scared off or refused to share with the three hikers I'd passed, though they weren't unfriendly or directly rude to me. I'm a hanger, so I just went to one of the campsites across from the shelter and set up. I'd already eaten (boy, had I eaten) so I could basically just let them do what they wanted, do my other camp chores in my own site and get to bed. One guy did actually come over and offer my some dinner, but as I said I was not interested anyway.

    Problem was, I ended up overhearing a lot in the night due to a yelling-and-crying fight between one of the couples. From what I gathered, they were there on some kind of vacation or extended campout and weren't homeless (the woman involved kept demanding to go home; apparently her partner had the car keys.) I didn't know who to report this to at the time (does BMECC maintain Windsor Furnace?) and I had a long day the next day, so I left it at that and didn't report it at the time. I suppose I could have called 911, but that seemed rather extreme for the circumstance. Unfortunately, I also didn't feel it advisable to confront these folks by myself.

    I'm hoping that Shelterbuilder or one of the other folks here know who to contact about this. It's not that they were bad people, just ignorant and in the wrong place. But still, shelters are for hikers, not for those seeking a free vacation for a few days and thus taking over services that hikers need and are intended for them.
    what exactly is there to "report"?

  2. #22
    GA-ME 78, sectional 81-01 HIKER7s's Avatar
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    Strat..are you a lawman in your job?
    I hiked that ridge Pop told me not to that morning.
    Each time out, I see that same ridge- only different.
    Each one is an adventure in itself. Leading to what is beyond the next- HIKER7s


  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester2000 View Post
    As far as the demon alcohol, I'm not aware of anything illegal about it, as this wasn't on State Game Lands, but I could be wrong. Shelterbuilder or Emerald would be able to answer that better than I.
    I spoke with someone who works in Hamburg's borough office to refresh and/or update my memory moments ago. It's a local call for me.

    Alcohol is not specifically prohibited although 4 individuals were recently arrested for swimming in the reservoir. Alcohol was likely involved and a contributing factor. I believe they were charged with trespassing and disorderly conduct. People considerate of others who use common sense and respect what's posted are not apt to prompt enforcement action.

    Please be advised camping and fires are permitted on the watershed only at Windsor Furnace Shelter and the camping area provided by Hamburg near the reservoir parking lot. As pointed out several times in this thread, permission is required for overnight parking. When someone calls to secure permission, they will be expected to provide information about their vehicle, someone will go over the terms of watershed use and answer any questions.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester2000 View Post
    Strategic: "Yeah, there are some folks camped up here with heavy gear who built a fire, offerred me some food, and were really loud. At least one of them isn't having a good time and wants to go home."

    Dispatcher: "Are they Boy Scouts?"
    Ok, that made me laugh out loud here at my desk. I don't care what side of the Boy Scout debate you're on, that's funny stuff right there.

    Thanks for the chuckle.
    Midway Sam
    AT Section Hiker

    "Adventure is not outside man; it is within." ~ Georg Eliot

  5. #25
    GA-ME 78, sectional 81-01 HIKER7s's Avatar
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    I know...the laws right in around there are tricky depending where you stand. AND trust me, if you dont call ahead and let them know your going to be parking in the resivour pkg lot. they are quick to get a ticket on ya.
    I hiked that ridge Pop told me not to that morning.
    Each time out, I see that same ridge- only different.
    Each one is an adventure in itself. Leading to what is beyond the next- HIKER7s


  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by emerald View Post
    Please be advised camping and fires are permitted on the watershed only at Windsor Furnace Shelter and the camping area provided by Hamburg near the reservoir parking lot. As pointed out several times in this thread, permission is required for overnight parking. When someone calls to secure permission, they will be expected to provide information about their vehicle and someone will review the terms of watershed use at that time.
    does this include if you hike up along the creek? there are several campsites along that trail (blue blazed, not the AT)...i'm assuming these are illegal to camp and have fires at? they've been there as long as i've been hiking the area.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Wolf View Post
    what exactly is there to "report"?
    As usual, Lone Wolf says in six words what takes me, what, three or four posts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Midway Sam View Post
    Ok, that made me laugh out loud here at my desk. I don't care what side of the Boy Scout debate you're on, that's funny stuff right there.

    Thanks for the chuckle.
    Glad somebody enjoyed that . . .
    Drab as a Fool, as aloof as a Bard!

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  8. #28
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    "Only at the shelter" was the language used by the borough employee with whom I spoke. A more precise explanation may be needed. I expect whether the campsites you mentioned are on the NPS tract or not would determine their legality. I'm not certain of its boundaries and should walk them.

    In post #9, shelterbuilder refers to the "shelter and adjacent campsite." I expect he will respond later today and you could follow up on your question with him then.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by emerald View Post
    "Only at the shelter" was the language used by the borough employee with whom I spoke. A more precise explanation may be needed. I expect whether the campsites you mentioned are on the NPS tract or not would determine their legality. I'm not certain of its boundaries and should walk them.

    In post #9, shelterbuilder refers to the "shelter and adjacent campsite." I expect he will respond later today and you could follow up on your question with him then.
    Since the shelter and the "adjacent" campsite (the one in front of the shelter on the other side of the old woods road) are now NPS land, Hamburg has no legal jurisdiction at this location, even though it "has a vested interest" in what goes on here. However, the parcel is quite small, and if you don't see the yellow boundary blazes and go outside of the NPS parcel, you are once again under Hamburg's jurisdiction.

    I'm not exactly sure where the "campsites" are along the blue-blazed trail, but they would be illegal, since the remainder of the property in this area is Watershed property. (The fact that they've been there forever doesn't make them any less illegal!)

    Hamburg is and always has been "justifiably paranoid" about the possibility of a wildfire on its watershed property, since this could seriously affect water quality and supply for the entire town! Anyone who has ever hiked extensively in this area knows how difficult it would be to get enough fire supression equipment up into the mountains - there are only 3 roads that go to the top, and there's a LOT of land up there. Once the land is burned, the soil will not hold much water, and when the water washes downhill, it will take hundreds of years' worth of soil with it...not a pretty picture.
    Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning how to dance in the rain!

  10. #30

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    and yet everytime i hike up to the pinnacle i see evidence of small fires all along the way....even amongst the rocks on top of pinnacle.

  11. #31
    Registered User shelterbuilder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saimyoji View Post
    and yet everytime i hike up to the pinnacle i see evidence of small fires all along the way....even amongst the rocks on top of pinnacle.
    ...and some that are not-so-small! Some folks are a little slow on the uptake.

    That last large clearing coming up from the Eckville side is a favorite spot for this (and is also the turn-around for Hamburg's motorized patrols) - I don't know how many times I've come across the smoldering remains of what was obviously a large campfire.

    For some folks, camping isn't camping without a bonfire - oops, I mean campfire. LNT is a completely foreign concept to these people.
    Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning how to dance in the rain!

  12. #32
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    Just wanted to leave an update on this shelter....



    Shelter is in good condition with no leaks. Privy still looks good but is getting full. Register is full and looks like it has been since mid July. Picnic table is still in good condition. Stream on blue blaze was dry but the one a 1/4 mile up the AT was flowing.
    21.1% Done

  13. #33
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    the minihaha spring just south of here is bone dry and the pocahontas spring a mile south of that was basically a little puddle.

    the blue blaze stream was dry as slugger said...
    " It's what people know about themselves inside that makes 'em afraid." ~Clint Eastwood, High Plains Drifter

  14. #34
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    agreed jester.. you sometimes hear a sense of elitism or entitlement from some hikers.. the EXACT things that frustrate us and send us to the trails to brgin with. i wouldnt have even camped nearby, i always arrive at]elters with a few hours topare in case theyre crowded or theres weirdos hanging about. i just keep moving. if i decide im not going to use a shelter i dont like to camp nearby. that only leaves one open to the problems of a shelter without being able to reap the benefits. seems pointless to me. i figure im already outdoors, whats another night in a quiet, cozy tent?
    I broke a mirror in my house. I'm supposed to get seven years bad luck but my lawyer thinks he can get me five.

  15. #35
    Registered User Wags's Avatar
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    well, technically i don't think it's 'legal' to camp anywhere but the shelter and surrounding campsites at this location.
    " It's what people know about themselves inside that makes 'em afraid." ~Clint Eastwood, High Plains Drifter

  16. #36
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    Default Technically?

    Nothing technical about it. It's a plain and simple condition of use explained earlier.

    Hamburg residents and/or their guests who don't want to make use of the shelter or designated area are expected to camp somewhere other than on the watershed. For northbound A.T. through hikers that might be Blue Rocks Family Campground, State Game Lands 106 or Eckville, all 2 or more miles distant where conditions also apply.

    Detailed information is available in Guide to the Appalachian Trail in Pennsylvania, 11th ed. available from ATC or KTA. Pennsylvania A.T. hikers are advised to carry and refer to it or at least KTA's map for sections 1-6.
    Last edited by emerald; 09-11-2010 at 10:35.

  17. #37
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    Default Windsor Furnace Shelter maintenance

    Blue Mountain Eagle Climbing Club will begin reroofing WFS next weekend. More information is available at www.bmecc.org.

  18. #38
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    I hike there this summer on my ten year quest to through hike the AT very trashy to say the least I pick up allot of it and toss it out at the park down the trail. Unfortunately most of the stuff look like someone attempt to be a trail angel
    Would you be offended if I told you to
    TAKE A HIKE!
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  19. #39
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    i was responding to iron guts tommy, emerald. no need to sass me
    " It's what people know about themselves inside that makes 'em afraid." ~Clint Eastwood, High Plains Drifter

  20. #40
    Registered User shelterbuilder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emerald View Post
    Blue Mountain Eagle Climbing Club will begin reroofing WFS next weekend. More information is available at www.bmecc.org.
    AH, YES, ROOFING PROJECT # 3 FOR 2010 !!! I wasn't going to mention it (yeah, right), but since emerald brought it up...

    BMECC will be starting on this project on Saturday Sept. 11. We'll be meeting in the Hamburg reservior parking lot around 8:30 AM. Hopefully, we will have permission to drive our materials and volunteers directly to the shelter site. Our plans call for the re-roofing of both the shelter and the toilet, and we have time blocked out until Oct. 9th/10th.

    This might sound like a lot of time for a roof that's less than 400 sq. ft., but this month the weather will be changing over to a wetter weather pattern, and if we get a couple of days when no one shows up, well....

    Anyone who is in the area and wants to help out on this project is welcome to join us. Bring water, lunch, work gloves, and any roofing tools that you might have (hammers, staplers, utility knives, etc.). Even if you don't want to get up on the roof, there's still plenty of ground-work to be done.
    Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning how to dance in the rain!

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