Boot-Ankle Injury?

[Camping Dave]

Lots of anecdotes out there about how and why boots or sneakers either contribute to or inhibit ankle injuries, but I wonder whether the question has been rigorously studied. Do you know of any scientific studies showing a relation between boot/shoe properties and ankle injuries?

[fiddlehead]

No,
but I know this: If you carry a lot of weight, you will have ankle problems.
If you go light, are experienced at either trail running or long distance hiking, you will roll your ankle many times and 5 minutes later, forget that it ever even happened.

[Pedaling Fool]

That's an interesting question, but I'm willing to bet that there has never been a study. So I'll share my anecdotal information. I know you expected much more...sorry

I use to believe this, but now think that all-in-all it's an overstatement, but of course depends on the type of boot, but generally speaking an overstatement. Might even be classified as a Myth.

This is why, I've rolled my ankle wearing boots, pretty heavy duty boots. Not too long ago I thought about this "myth" so I put my boots on and looked at them and I started to simulate rolling my ankle and I really didn't feel any substantial resistance provided by the leather, yeah there was some in places that provided some resistance where there would be none had I worn my sneakers. However, I could easily overcome the resistance; now imagine you're walking along (even without weight) you got you body weight and momentum being stopped by your foot and stabilized by your ankle. Well, when you step on an unstable object, like a rock your foot begins to roll and the weight and momentum just ensures it rolls until there's something to stop it and it's not the leather, we all know what it is since I'm sure we've all done it.

However now since my thru-hike I, somewhat, feel a little impervious to rolled ankles, at least the extreme pain associated with them. I still on occassion roll my ankles but two things have changed that prevent injury.
1. is the amount of added strength and flexibility in that area.
2. I also have quicker reflexes in that area.

It's like anything else, what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. And one way I keep the strenght in that area when I can't get to the mountains is by running bare foot on the soft sand of the beach.

Although, I'd be really interested if someone could produce a scientific study on this

[fredmugs]

Boots suck. Unless you have a metal brace attached to your legs boots will not prevent you from ankle injuries while hiking.

[dragoro]

I disagree. I can't hike without boots due to weak ankles from mountain biking.

[garlic08]

It sounds like there are way too many variables and too few subjects for a study to be of any use. Gotta stick with what works for you. Try both.

[Blissful]

Weak ankles can be remedied with proper rehabilitation and investing in a wobble board, not sticking them in over weight boots that do not prevent rollings (I have used both btw and sustained very bad ankle sprains and still hiked the trail in trail runners. I rehabilitated my ankles).

[McPick]

I've given this topic considerable thought since concluding my AT hike in '08. My observations are simply that... Nothing scientific to support my hypothesis.

For background, I started hiking the AT in "06 at Springer wearing a pair of low-cut Vasque boots. Not exactly "trail runners" per se, but similar. I never rolled my ankles painfully while wearing these, but had enough close calls to cause me some concern.

I switched to Vasque Breeze boots about 400 miles in. These boots have higher ankles but are relatively lightweight due to the "Airmesh" construction. I wore these boots (loved them) all summer and wore them out in about 1000 miles. Thankfully I never rolled my ankles in these, either. I suspect this was at least in part due to my learning to reduce my pack weight, and becoming a more experienced and physically fit hiker.

I traded the Breeze for a pair of heavier Montrail boots in Manchester Center and hiked with them for the rest of my AT hike in '06, without a roll. Sadly, I was not able to complete the section between Hanover and Monson (the Whites) that year.

I was fortunate to be able to return to the AT in '08 to complete the hike. I rolled my left ankle 5 times in those 300 miles between Hanover and Monson. As noted above these are painful, hike threatening injuries. My ankle swelled enormously. I stopped to soak it in numerous cold streams and rivers.

The first fall occurred just before I reached the Madison hut. This was the most dangerous fall because in addition to weakening my ankle for the duration of the hike, I also literally fell off the trail and down into a ravine.

The third roll/fall occurred between the east and west peaks of Bald Plate Mountain. Many of you know the area... Those flat, stacked slab/sidewalk looking mountains you can climb with your eyes closed. I stepped on NOTHING and just fell over in agony. For the next 5 minutes I thought my hike was finished (again). It is amazing how quickly the pain diminished even though the ankle swelled enormously. No way I was taking my boot off up there.

At my very next opportunity I went to a pharmacy and asked for the most supportive ankle brace they had. This apparatus was bulky but felt SO good on. I told the saleswoman that if I could wear it over my swollen ankle and get it to fit into my boot, I'd buy it... It did, so I did. Although I rolled my ankle and fell 2 more times, I believe that ankle brace saved me from injuring myself more severely.

So, the question was, "Why was I rolling that ankle?" Certainly after the first fall, my ankle was weakened, but what was so different between 2006 and 2008? OK, hikers, I think I know...

I have respectfully disagreed with those here who suggest hikers should not wear gel insoles in their boots. I always use them and really like them. However, I have an additional, thinner insole on top of them. I do not remember the kind of thin insole I had during the '08 hike. I studied my boots and insoles contemplating potential reasons for my rolling/falling. This is what I discovered...

The gel insole lays flat in my boot. The thin insole on top of the gel did not lay flat. In fact the heel of it was curved, shaped more like a U, which left gaps between it and the gel below it on either side of my heels. I believe that gap was the culprit... There was enough space there for my heel to shift into it and throw me off balance.

Because I was between towns when I discovered the gaps, I cut the front part of those thin insoles off and used those pieces (and duct tape) to manufacture long shims to fill the gaps. Further, I replaced those curved insoles with flat ones at the very next opportunity.

Since repairing/replacing the insoles in my boots, I have not rolled my ankles (or fallen) again on the AT, or the CT, or the SHT.

So, nothing scientific... Simply an observation.

Blissful... Is a "Wobble Board" the same as a Bongo Board?

[dragoro]

Weak ankles can be remedied with proper rehabilitation and investing in a wobble board, not sticking them in over weight boots that do not prevent rollings (I have used both btw and sustained very bad ankle sprains and still hiked the trail in trail runners. I rehabilitated my ankles).

That's all down to case by case basis. All the rehabilitation in the world ain't going to do a thing for me. Whether out backpacking or just walking through the city day to day, I'm wearing some kind of boot. Haven't been able to get away with low tops (other then when I was on my mountain bike) since high school.

[Pedaling Fool]

I traded the Breeze for a pair of heavier Montrail boots in Manchester Center and hiked with them for the rest of my AT hike in '06, without a roll. Sadly, I was not able to complete the section between Hanover and Monson (the Whites) that year.

I was fortunate to be able to return to the AT in '08 to complete the hike. I rolled my left ankle 5 times in those 300 miles between Hanover and Monson. As noted above these are painful, hike threatening injuries. My ankle swelled enormously. I stopped to soak it in numerous cold streams and rivers.

Were you wearing Montrail boots when this happened?

I would say the first roll was just a bad foot placing (really bad) and the subsequent rolls probably was not necessarily a really bad foot placing, but any misplacement of the foot when you have an injured ankle there's a chance of a roll and if the ankle is badly injured the foot placement doesn't even have to be bad, because the ankle always acts as a stabilizer and if you have an injury it doesn't work that great.




I know because years ago, before my thru-hike, I was on a two week hike and I rolled my ankle really bad in the beginning and from that point on it gave out on my several times a day, probably should have stopped my hike, but I'm hard-headed that way. My boots didn't do shlt to help.

My boots are very thick leather, but if I misplace my foot that leather ain't helpin' if the momentum is right and stride postion. That's another thing that determines how badly you roll your ankle -- how you're in a stride when you put you foot down on the unstable surface. Remember our stride is not uniform like walking on pavement.


Bottomline, hiking is the only fix to rolling ankles, I guess you could come up with a special exercise, but I haven't really put any effort into that -- other than running barefoot on soft sand. The only other fix would be to have a very stiff ankle support, but then you will really have weak ankles from lack of exercise in that area.


We humans want too much gear to keep us comfortable and safe, but in many cases it's just a matter of building up the body as it was designed to be.

.

[Pedaling Fool]

Weak ankles can be remedied with proper rehabilitation and investing in a wobble board, not sticking them in over weight boots that do not prevent rollings (I have used both btw and sustained very bad ankle sprains and still hiked the trail in trail runners. I rehabilitated my ankles).

I just noticed this post. I don't know what a wobble board is, but probably (loosly) what I'm thinking about if I were to design an apparatus to exercise the ankles.

I'm thinking it's a board that you step onto with both feet and wobble, that would be good, but after you master that you would need something you step on with only one foot and wobble -- simulating stepping on a rock. Big difference, just like the difference between doing a one-legged squat and a normal squat or a one-legged calf extension vs. a normal two-legged extension.

I'm starting to see dollar signs

[tuswm]

I spend a good part of the year every year with no shoes on at all. I live at and work ON the beach. I know I am more healthy in general in the summer at the beach but running bear foot on the sand makes the whole leg stronger especially from the knee down. you use stabilizer muscles you just dont use in boots or trail runners.

I have never had a foot injury bare foot

wearing boots or trail runners raises your heal off the ground thus increasing the length of your "foot" from the heal to the ground or puts the stabilizer muscles at a mechanical disadvantage when a roll begins to happen.

This mechanical disadvantage for your atrophied stabilizers muscles turns in to a mechanical advantage for what ever object rock or root to apply torque to your ankle and do more damage

Also when you can feel the ground under your feet if something doesn't feel right you react. when you have shoes on there is no sensation like that. you dont notice anything is off until your body weight is already transferring on to your foot. By then its too late.

also the foot is round on the bottom at least in back. like a bike tire. can be at an angle, and the front of the foot can twist. SO you leg can be like a bike and work at different angle to the surface. Consider walking across a slop, not up or down but across. This about what happens when you step on an angle with your down hill foot bar foot. First your inside of your heal hits the front of your foot adjust to the angle of the slope. the majority of the weight is on the inside of your heal bone that is still inline with your leg bones. this is great for weight bearing. Shoe and boots are not like this. They always want to be a right angle to the surface even when your body inst. They also do Not do a good just of letting food adapt to the angle or the surface. Now lets consider what happens to your down hill foot when you step on the same angle with shoes on. The whole foot has to move at one, the ankle is bent over and not in a natural weight bearing position. now visual where your heal is in the shoe, its over the edge of the sole, if it goes to far over the shoe then tries to fall over down the hill taking your foot with it. Next time you are at the beach, notice all the people walking along the waters edge where its steep. They have no problems waking there because they are bare foot. Then try walking there in shoes its awfully uncomfortable. Now roll your ankle there and take a look in the sand at how it happened. all the weight was on the out side corner of the sole, the ground gave way under the loaded portion of the show allowing it to twist even more.

I would like to try five fingers but they dont fit my fat little feet.

having said that. I hike in boots.

[tuswm]

sorry for the typos. I meant to hit "go advanced" and edit.

[Pedaling Fool]

...Consider walking across a slop, not up or down but across. This about what happens when you step on an angle with your down hill foot bar foot...

I do this also on the beach when I run on the hard sand of the surf, it's at an angle because of the wave action. That takes a lot of getting use to, the pain gets to a point where you start to feel it in the knees. Sometimes I wonder if I'm doing more damage than good, so I limit that type of running.

[McPick]

So I Googled Wobble Boards, wondering if they are similar to Bongo Boards... Nope!

http://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/cy...bble_board.htm

...Wobble boards are most commonly used in the rehabilitation of ankle injuries such as ankle sprains, although they should also be used for other lower leg and knee injuries. They can also be used for upper limb injuries, especially the shoulder. This is important in people involved in throwing or similar activities.

In addition to two-leg exercises, there are these suggestions for one leg...

12. Try to balance on the wobble board with one leg only! How long can you go for?
13. Balancing on one foot, perform small knee bends to challenge your balance.

There is also this variety...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wobble_board

"What a world... What a world..."

Thank you for the suggestion, Ms. Bliss!

[sbhikes]

The influence of mountain boots on gait
http://www.springerlink.com/content/mu4818l82w502x13/

Effect of Ankle Taping on Knee and Ankle Joint Biomechanics in Sporting Tasks
http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Ab..._Joint.16.aspx

Not quite what you were looking for, but some studies found in google in a couple minutes.

[tuswm]

I do this also on the beach when I run on the hard sand of the surf, it's at an angle because of the wave action. That takes a lot of getting use to, the pain gets to a point where you start to feel it in the knees. Sometimes I wonder if I'm doing more damage than good, so I limit that type of running.

We run a lot at work and we do a large portion of it on the soft sand where its flat. We also run bare foot, that helps.

[Pedaling Fool]

I just noticed this post. I don't know what a wobble board is, but probably (loosly) what I'm thinking about if I were to design an apparatus to exercise the ankles.

I'm thinking it's a board that you step onto with both feet and wobble, that would be good, but after you master that you would need something you step on with only one foot and wobble -- simulating stepping on a rock. Big difference, just like the difference between doing a one-legged squat and a normal squat or a one-legged calf extension vs. a normal two-legged extension.

I'm starting to see dollar signs

Not exactly what I was thinking about, but still pretty interesting lookin' device http://www.skiersedge.com/

[Deadeye]

I often get questioned about my choice of footwear - always low-cut shoes or trail runners.

"You need heavy boots to prevent ankle injuries" they'll tell me.

"You have experience with ankle injuries?" I'll reply

"Sure, I've sprained my ankles many times!" they answer.

"While wearing your boots?"

"Right!"

They don't seem to get it.

In my very unscientific opinion, any boot that will actually immobilize your ankle enough to prevent ankle injury will also prevent you from walking, and just move the injury up the leg.

Case in point: in the olden days of downhill skiing (pre 1970's), boots were leather, lace-up, ankle-high affairs. They morphed into stiff plastic, mid-calf foot lockers. The result? A dramatic decrease in broken or sprained ankles, and a corresponding dramatic incerease in blown out knees.

[Pedaling Fool]

I often get questioned about my choice of footwear - always low-cut shoes or trail runners.

"You need heavy boots to prevent ankle injuries" they'll tell me.

"You have experience with ankle injuries?" I'll reply

"Sure, I've sprained my ankles many times!" they answer.

"While wearing your boots?"

"Right!"

They don't seem to get it.

Too funny