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  1. #1
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    Default Longest continuously marked section

    Anyone know what's the longest, continuously marked section of the NCT is? I'm assuming the Finger Lakes Trail but not sure.

  2. #2

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    The Finger Lakes is marked as well as all of Pa. and, I know, a good part of Ohio. I can assume that the complete trail is marked, all 4600 miles. But there still is roadwalk involved. Some day, we will get the landowners permission and get off the roads.
    Just a trail grunt in Pennsyl-tucky

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    I'm not a NCT expert by any means but here are my best guesses, with the caveat that the NCT will probably always have some degree of roadwalking--whether it be an actual road, a dirt road, a cowpath, an ATV road, etc.

    Michigan, after you get north of Grand Rapids, has probably near 1,000 miles of relatively continuous trail. The UP probably requires good compass skills, but the trail is there.

    Wisconsin, at 200 mi, is now continuous.

    Minnesota, with the SHT, the Border Route Trail, the Kekeabic (sp?) has about 400 mi right there, and I know that they have added new trail recently.

    North Dakota has sections of trail that are official but are indeed linked by lengthy roadwalks.

    In the other directions, in Ohio, I understand that the eastern portion of the trail is more complete, while the western portion has more roadwalks.

    Pennsy has lots of trail through the Allegheny Plateau.

    If the NCT could get a route through the Adirondacks, NY would have a ton of trail independant of the FLT. Right now I guess a route would be from Crown Point, south on the Northville-Placid Trail, and a roadwalk through Rome. I wonder if you could get Mt Marcy on that route?

    Now looking at all this I would venture that a hike through Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota would be the longest continuous section.

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    I don't know what the original poster means. I am guessing you maybe mean actual trail that is blazed?

    Wisconsin in any case doesn't have this. Not sure what is meant by continuous with regards to Wisconsin, etc... as it has some road walking and our secction (Heritage Chapter) has quite a bit right now and will be re-routed away from Hurley and instead go north to Lake Superior. The longest continuous trail section in WI is 61 miles, though I understand some of it is not blazed when it goes through wilderness.

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    Hmm...I thought that WI had a completed route through the state. Of course there will be some road walk gaps to get from one place to another.

    I am not talking about the marked/blazed miles that you will find, say on the AT. The NCT will probably never look like the AT.

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    At any rate the NCT website gives a summary of what each state has to offer in terms of trail for someone who is looking.

    Admittedly 'routed' and 'off road marked trail' are different things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WI_Mike View Post
    I don't know what the original poster means. I am guessing you maybe mean actual trail that is blazed?

    Wisconsin in any case doesn't have this. Not sure what is meant by continuous with regards to Wisconsin, etc... as it has some road walking and our secction (Heritage Chapter) has quite a bit right now and will be re-routed away from Hurley and instead go north to Lake Superior. The longest continuous trail section in WI is 61 miles, though I understand some of it is not blazed when it goes through wilderness.
    Let's say I want to hike a 1000 mile section of the NCT, but I do not want to deal with long road walks, unblazed trail or 'no trail' in places. What would the longest section be where I didn't have to deal with finding the trail, or making a trail.

    In other words...what's the longest section of the NCT that's easy to follow and avoids long road walks, long being 2+ miles

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    Default 1000 miles

    Quote Originally Posted by stranger View Post
    Let's say I want to hike a 1000 mile section of the NCT, but I do not want to deal with long road walks, unblazed trail or 'no trail' in places. What would the longest section be where I didn't have to deal with finding the trail, or making a trail.
    I'm not sure what to say. There are big sections of the NCT continuously done, but no 1000 mile stretch of completed trail. But it could happen in the next 15 to 20 years. The most likely place it will happen is in Upper Michigan, Northern Wisconsin and Northern Minnesota. Wisconsin has bought land within the last couple of years that will fill in significant gaps.

    Right now, in Northern Minnesota there is over 350 miles of continuous trail in the form of the Superior Hiking Trail, Border Route Trail and Kekekabic Trail. The Kek and the BRT go through the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness, and because of the rules the trails cannot be blazed in the Designated Wilderness Area. But that being said, I've hiked both trails over the last two years and didn't have that much trouble. But I hiked them in May, before the vegetation can take over. And significant work has been done by both trail clubs to get trails in the last two years to get these trails cleared. I was on a Border Route Trail Crew last May.

    You should not have any trouble with the Superior Hiking Trail. It is over 250 miles long and is continuous except for a section between Duluth and Two Harbors which they have made good progress on completing. South of Duluth the Superior Hiking Trail ends in Jay Cooke State Park near the Wisconsin Border. Wisconsin has bought land that will extent the trail 10 miles into Wisconsin. But for now there is a road walk of about 15 miles to Paterson State Park. You can take the Saunders State Trail, which is a bicycle and ATV trail for a chunk of that road walk. At Paterson, there is
    a short section of NCT completed along the waterfalls in the park. But then there is another 10+ mile road walk to the where the trail starts up again near Gordon Dam County Park.

    Then near Gordon Dam County Park you reach another section of over 100 miles of completed trail. That takes you through the town of Solon Springs, along the historic Brule/St Croix Portage, then across the Chequamegon National Forest to Copper Falls State Park northeast of Mellen. Drummond is another trail town along that section.

    At Copper Falls State Park, the state of Wisconsin has acquired land that will connect it with the Iron County Forest. The Heritage Chapter will be making the trail on that land this spring and summer. Currently, in the Iron County Forest, the trail heads towards the twin cities of Hurley and Ironwood. But the Trail is being rerouted to the north. For now, you will have a road walk of about 15 miles from Ironwood to the Copper Peak Ski Area. From there, it's another 150 miles of complete trail going through Porcupine Mountains State Park and Ottawa National Forest to Alberta Michigan.

    After Alberta, I think there is a rather large road walk. I'm not sure what progress has been made here recently. The trail picks up again around Marquette, Michigan, and there is a fairly large section completed east of Munsing, which includes the Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore. And east of that the trail goes through the Hiawatha National Forest towards the Mackanaw bridge at St Ignace.

    For Details, check out the North Country Trail Association website. They have developed a new Map feature, which is really good.

    that's all for now

    Tman

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    By the way, I'm not quite sure what determines when trails in wilderness are blazed. There are blazed wilderness trails in the Nicolet National Forest in NE Wisconsin (metal diamond shaped blazes), but in other national forests (and Isle Royale?) they seem to prohibit it, which I don't understand.

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    Default Wilderness Areas

    Quote Originally Posted by WI_Mike View Post
    By the way, I'm not quite sure what determines when trails in wilderness are blazed. There are blazed wilderness trails in the Nicolet National Forest in NE Wisconsin (metal diamond shaped blazes), but in other national forests (and Isle Royale?) they seem to prohibit it, which I don't understand.
    Well, if they are in a designated wilderness area, there should be no blazing except for what they call temporary blazing. Temporary blazing usually are ribbons.

    For instance, in Wisconsin, the NCT goes through the Rainbow Lake Wilderness and Porcupine Lake Wilderness where they cannot be blazed.

    They lack of blazing usually is not a problem. And the local trail volunteers usually put ribbons on problem areas. But the last big problem in trail blazing was on the Kekekabic Trail in October of 2008. Two hikers got lost, and the trail was not adequately blazed after the Ham Lake Fire of 2007. The Kekekabic Trail Club immediately reblazed the trail.

    But the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness is the biggest Wilderness in the Midwest. And just getting into the trail to maintain it can be a major pain in the butt.

    But, the other reason the trails might be blazed with metal diamonds is that they were grandfathered in when the Wilderness Area was designated. For Instance, the Border Route has signs at most every Trail Junction. No signs are allowed on the trail in the Wilderness, but those signs were there before the BWCAW became a wilderness area.

    That's the most likely reason

    Regards from me, Tman

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    Default

    Great information...thanks

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    Default

    From Rome, NY to Clarion, PA would be several hundred trail miles, but there are some blazed roadwalks over 2 miles each on that stretch (not over a day long though).

    From Rome, NY then turning left on the Great Eastern Trail would actually get you a longer "other trail" hike without an over-a-day roadwalk but it's not as consistently described, mapped, or blazed as yet, as far south as around Woodstock, VA if the criterion is a not-over-a-day road walk, or to I-64 between Clifton Forge, VA and Lewisburg, WV if the criterion is "can I get through?".

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    Interesting... that could be. However, the Headwaters Wilderness (apparently Wisconsin's largest) I refer to was designated in 1984 apparently. I kind of doubt those blazes are over 25 years old, but it's certainly possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by isawtman View Post
    Well, if they are in a designated wilderness area, there should be no blazing except for what they call temporary blazing. Temporary blazing usually are ribbons.

    For instance, in Wisconsin, the NCT goes through the Rainbow Lake Wilderness and Porcupine Lake Wilderness where they cannot be blazed.

    They lack of blazing usually is not a problem. And the local trail volunteers usually put ribbons on problem areas. But the last big problem in trail blazing was on the Kekekabic Trail in October of 2008. Two hikers got lost, and the trail was not adequately blazed after the Ham Lake Fire of 2007. The Kekekabic Trail Club immediately reblazed the trail.

    But the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness is the biggest Wilderness in the Midwest. And just getting into the trail to maintain it can be a major pain in the butt.

    But, the other reason the trails might be blazed with metal diamonds is that they were grandfathered in when the Wilderness Area was designated. For Instance, the Border Route has signs at most every Trail Junction. No signs are allowed on the trail in the Wilderness, but those signs were there before the BWCAW became a wilderness area.

    That's the most likely reason

    Regards from me, Tman

  14. #14
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    Default Blazing

    Quote Originally Posted by WI_Mike View Post
    Interesting... that could be. However, the Headwaters Wilderness (apparently Wisconsin's largest) I refer to was designated in 1984 apparently. I kind of doubt those blazes are over 25 years old, but it's certainly possible.

    There appears to be only one maintained trail in the Headwaters Wilderness area and that is the Giant Pines Loop which is less than 3 miles long. Maybe the reason it is blazed is that the Forest Rangers in that district are not idiots. "No Blazing in the Wilderness Areas" is quite possibly the worst rule ever.

    What's worst for the wilderness, a 2 inch by 6 inch blaze painted on a tree every so often, or hundreds of people trampling through the wilderness looking for a lost person.

    It's okay to build this in the wilderness:
    http://picasaweb.google.com/isawtman...14350146239922
    Yes, a fifty yard long stairway is okay in the Wilderness, but a little 2x6 inch blaze is not. Yes, it's okay to build boardwalks on portages, too

    I'm not saying that trail maintainers should go crazy blazing in the Wilderness. But having a reassurance blaze every so often would be reassuring. For most non wilderness trails I've hiked, you can see the next blaze when you are standing at a blaze. But in the wilderness they really wouldn't have to blaze the trail that often.

    Really, who is going to see the blazing except for the hikers themselves. And in some cases, the hikers would be mighty happy to see a blaze.

    And I think a permanent blaze is much better than the temporary ribbons. When I hiked the Kekekabic Trail, there were dozens of spots where I saw little ribbon pieces on the ground.

    The other reason the trail in the Headwaters Wilderness may be blazed is it is not the Boundary Waters. The Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness is the 2nd most litigated piece of property in the world. Only Yellowstone National Park has had more lawsuits involving it.

    I think people make enough mistakes while hiking, that we should not compound their mistakes by not having blazing. The two lost people mentioned in my previous post made some critical mistakes. First off, they lost their map. How about going back and finding the map? Secondly, how about going back to a spot where you knew you were on the trail. Maybe some other hiker will come along and you will be saved. And each person should have their own map. Having one map between two people IS a disaster waiting to happen. "I thought you had the map. No I thought you had the map."

    But they did some things right. They let someone know what their plans were and when they should arrive at the trailhead. And once they were lost, they kept hiking in the direction that they knew a road is located. They were hiking east and would have hit the Gunflint Trail (a road) in less than a day from the spot they were found.

    regards from me, Tman

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    TMan,

    I agree 100%. That is indeed the trail I'm talking about. I'm not sure if the other Nicolet wildernesses have blazed trails but at least that one does.

    And I think what you say is spot on. If you want to read a book about what non-blazing can lead to check out this book. One of the stories bears reading on this point.

    http://www.caryjgriffith.com/LostintheWild.htm

    And given that so many of these areas are full of old logging/forest roads or old trails, it can be easy to lose the trail.

  16. #16

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    I "thought" the Forest Service was one big corporation. Seems that the various forest's are managed differently. In the Allegheny NF, permanent blazing in not permitted in a wilderness area. BUT, rock carns with a top rock painted is allowed. In District R-2, ( Colorado, New Mexico etc ) painted blazes are allowed in a wilderness. In R-9, east of Milwaukee, they are not. Wish they would get their story straight. I have 5 miles that goes thru a potential wilderness area. I can't paint blaze. But I can put up carns, go figure. They have told me that paint blazing and signs are OK at critical trail junctions or severe trail re-direction. The blazing is better than a lost hiker.
    Just a trail grunt in Pennsyl-tucky

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