Too Much Trail Magic

[rickb]

Well, that just isn't so. There are many, many hundreds of miles of trail, at least a thousand miles, where no porch lights can be seen, as you well know. My question is why do you seem to be concurring with the exaggeration (lie)?

Weary

I think the trend among some to dismiss the wild side of the AT is unfortunate.

By perpetuating the false image of the Trail as just some kind of suburban park, all sorts of encroachments become more palatable. Whether these be sounds from a race track, over-engineered shelters, or construction within the view shed, what's the big deal? After all the AT is not a Wilderness!

As for Trail Magic, that's a tough one. Apart from the often discussed distinction between preplanned magic vs. spontaneous interaction between strangers, I think other factors come into play. To my way of thinking there is a big difference between a local coming to the AT to greet people passing through his community (or back yard) and RickB traveling hundreds of miles to the Trail to find hikers in the middle of their walks. Both might be preplanned, but I see them as worlds apart.

I also think that the sheer quantity of preplanned Trail magic is important to think about. Think of it this way-- if there was a hotdog stand and group of great people sharing stories, cheering you on and giving you stuff at every road crossing, that would really suck, right? Even thought its at a road crossing, right?

While that's something we will never see, the fleeting thought that an ever increasing number of hikers might think that would be most excellent worries me.

[Morel]

I left Springer on March 13th for a section hike. The first night had about 20 people at Hawk Shelter. Which I expected since it was Spring Break. By time we arrived at Plumorchard that Sleeps 14 there were a total of 8 people there. Alot of the time we only saw the same people who were thru hiking.

As far as trail magic. I don't know a church group serving burgers at Neels Gap I thought was a nice gesture- I could of bought Pizza at the store. The other places we recieved trail majic- were a drink, that might come with a cookie.

By time we arrived in Franklin NC. Hikers were on differnt schedule because of re-supply and zero days.

I found it to be a wonderful experience. Maybe not the wild wilderness I enjoyed in Northern Ontario or Quebec in the past. However I was also on a footpath in the Eastern United States.

[AeroGuyDC]

I'm not gonna knock trail magic....nor will I refuse it. It wouldn't be "magic" if I didn't need it or want it, right?

My first taste of trail magic was a 6 inch sub from Subway as I passed through Dalghren campground. That sandwich couldn't have been given to me at better time or place anywhere on this entire planet. And I don't even like black olives.

[Jim Adams]

Well, that just isn't so. There are many, many hundreds of miles of trail, at least a thousand miles, where no porch lights can be seen, as you well know. My question is why do you seem to be concurring with the exaggeration (lie)?

Weary

Weary,
I was just using that to point out that nowhere on the AT is there true wilderness.

geek

[sheepdog]

Weary,
I was just using that to point out that nowhere on the AT is there true wilderness.

geek

true, the AT is a recreation area

[russb]

Weary,
I was just using that to point out that nowhere on the AT is there true wilderness.

geek

How do you define "true wilderness"?

How large must an area of land be to be considered "true wilderness" in your view?

According US Wilderness Act:

lands designated for preservation and protection in their natural condition

an area where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man

generally appears to have been affected primarily by the forces of nature, with the imprint of man's work substantially unnoticeable

has outstanding opportunities for solitude or a primitive and unconfined type of recreation

shall be devoted to the public purposes of recreation, scenic, scientific, educational, conservation and historic use


While I do not expect all to subscribe to the fed's "definition", it is at least a starting point for discussion. Personally I can wilderness in even my local parks. As I do not have a preset acreage threshold. For me there is no "welcome to the real wilderness" line at some arbitrary distance from the work of man. For me real wilderness can be found in the smallest of areas as long as I am able to let go of the rest of the world for the time being.

[sheepdog]

How do you define "true wilderness"?

How large must an area of land be to be considered "true wilderness" in your view?

According US Wilderness Act:

lands designated for preservation and protection in their natural condition

an area where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man

generally appears to have been affected primarily by the forces of nature, with the imprint of man's work substantially unnoticeable

has outstanding opportunities for solitude or a primitive and unconfined type of recreation

shall be devoted to the public purposes of recreation, scenic, scientific, educational, conservation and historic use


While I do not expect all to subscribe to the fed's "definition", it is at least a starting point for discussion. Personally I can wilderness in even my local parks. As I do not have a preset acreage threshold. For me there is no "welcome to the real wilderness" line at some arbitrary distance from the work of man. For me real wilderness can be found in the smallest of areas as long as I am able to let go of the rest of the world for the time being.

Those highlighted in bold seems to make it fail the wilderness test. Seems like mostly people from the city consider the AT wilderness.

[Mags]

The AT may not have true "wilderness"..but it does have WILDness.

Being on top of Franconia Ridge in a pelting rain storm felt as remote, wild, and exhilarating as anything I've felt out West.

Is it wilderness? No. But being in the Barren-Chairback Range of Maine and gazing out at the expanse of woods and lakes below me is something I ache to return to again. There may have been hunting cabins below..I don't know. All I do know is that the feelings was remote. It felt wild.


The AT is far from a suburban stroll. It may not have wilderness..but it has wildness in spades.

I have been to places that have only seen a few people a year. Mountains with register entries that have not been updated in several years.

But few memories top being at a quiet lake shore in Maine and seeing the last light of the setting sun. Or being amazed at how beautiful and rural the AT in New Jersey felt. Or sitting quietly by a stream somewhere in Virginia in woods and not seeing anyone and just being left with my own thoughts.

I won't get into how 'true' wilderness is defined. All I know is that AT felt wild as times and I am thankful for the months spent walking it.

[russb]

All I know is that AT felt wild as times and I am thankful for the months spent walking it.

This sums up my point. Wilderness in reality is manifested by perception.

[Jim Adams]

Yes, it has wild sections and as Mags points out "I am thankful for the months spent walking it."
My local white water river has a section 11 miles long with no houses, buildings, roads or business along it. The government would not designate it a wild river for protection because it has a bicycle trail in the woods along it.
I have been roughly 450 miles from civilization and gone 27 days w/o seeing another person...that is wilderness. I LOVE the AT!...it changed my life and I love the quiet times, the nature, the smells and the constant changes day to day but it is just a path through a narrow corridor of unpopulated woods until you come to a road.

geek

[WingedMonkey]

just a path through a narrow corridor of unpopulated woods until you come to a road.

Are you the "Geek" that was passing out beer and hot dogs at Gooch Gap three weeks ago? Do you feel a hiker can't make it past a road crossing 16 miles into the AT without being fed?
Just asking.

[Jim Adams]

Are you the "Geek" that was passing out beer and hot dogs at Gooch Gap three weeks ago? Do you feel a hiker can't make it past a road crossing 16 miles into the AT without being fed?
Just asking.

Yep, that was me.

No, I have never felt that hikers "need" fed, but I do enjoy meeting the new group of thru hikers every year and if they want a hot dog or a beer then they are welcome to it. If they don't then that is fine too. The distance into the woods or the distance from a road crossing has nothing to do with it. HYOH is the way I have always been but I find very few who aren't thankful for a hot dog or a beer or just conversation. Low Gap tends to be about a week into their thru hike and the point where alot of them are saying to themselves "what did I get myself into". They seem to leave there with alot more confidence in their hike.

geek

[Pedaling Fool]

I don’t accept “trail magic” anymore. Actually I stopped after only a few times of participating in 2006, when I was first introduced to this practice. I refused to accept a ride to someone’s house that was serving everything a hiker could want -- eggs, pancakes, sweet buns, fruits, jucies… I just got sick of being interrupted in my hike; I really do believe “trail magic” is more for the giver than the recipient.

I subsequently talked to a few of the hikers that accepted the ride/“trail magic” and it turns out that they had to listen to a sermon by some pretty serious holy rollers before being fed – I thought that was funny.

Like I said, I now do not participate in “trail magic”, but when I say, “no thanks”, that’s not the end of it. People ask me, “are you sure?”, “it’s free.”… It can be very annoying and it continues when I meet back up with the other hikers and they ask me more questions, trying to understand why I don’t want it. It’s kind of like the same experience when a drunk(s) wants you to drink with them, as if they can’t enjoy themselves unless you sit there and drink with them – freakin’ pathetic.

When you say, no, you’re looked at as some kind of freak, really annoying. However, I understand that this practice is here to stay and I’m a minority in the AT community WRT this issue, so I won’t really debate it anymore. I’ll just have to resign myself to appearing as a weirdo when I refuse “trail magic”. An example of AT’ers not accepting diversity in opinion when that opinion seems to be so strange, in their view, thus they treat minorities, such as me, with disdain.

[WingedMonkey]

Yep, that was me.

No, I have never felt that hikers "need" fed, but I do enjoy meeting the new group of thru hikers every year and if they want a hot dog or a beer then they are welcome to it. If they don't then that is fine too. The distance into the woods or the distance from a road crossing has nothing to do with it. HYOH is the way I have always been but I find very few who aren't thankful for a hot dog or a beer or just conversation. Low Gap tends to be about a week into their thru hike and the point where alot of them are saying to themselves "what did I get myself into". They seem to leave there with alot more confidence in their hike.

geek

Thank you for an honest answer.

[Freedom Walker]

Yep, that was me.

No, I have never felt that hikers "need" fed, but I do enjoy meeting the new group of thru hikers every year and if they want a hot dog or a beer then they are welcome to it. If they don't then that is fine too. The distance into the woods or the distance from a road crossing has nothing to do with it. HYOH is the way I have always been but I find very few who aren't thankful for a hot dog or a beer or just conversation. Low Gap tends to be about a week into their thru hike and the point where alot of them are saying to themselves "what did I get myself into". They seem to leave there with alot more confidence in their hike.

geek

Jim Adams and others who wish to provide trail magic do so with the idea that they may be helping a discouraged thru hiker at a time when he may be considering quitting. They do so at the risk of offending those who may choose to be left alone. My question is this, if only 15 to 20% of thru-hikers finish each year, would that number be lower if there were no trail magic?

[weary]

Jim Adams and others who wish to provide trail magic do so with the idea that they may be helping a discouraged thru hiker at a time when he may be considering quitting. They do so at the risk of offending those who may choose to be left alone. My question is this, if only 15 to 20% of thru-hikers finish each year, would that number be lower if there were no trail magic?

If you read Jim's message carefully, he provides "trail magic" because he enjoys doing so, and by offering beers and hotdogs he gets to enjoy meeting and talking to new groups of hikers each year. So called "trail magic" is a way for many folks to vicariously experience long distance hiking without the bother of actually walking.

Trail magic contributes to the party atmosphere that has replaced enjoying nature as a reason for hiking. It's my guess that such "charity" decreases the percentage of hikers that actually finish the trail each year.

Among the images that stick in my mind from my 1993 long walk was the guy whose junk car with bald tires was parked at a trail crossing in Georgia. He insisted I take a coffee and a breakfast roll, while he told me that this was the way he contributed to society.

[emerald]

I'm not convinced the percentage of hikers completing the A.T. has increased over the years. I would have thought the many advantages hikers today enjoy ought to have had more of an impact.

Maybe in the end, gear, pack weight and services don't contribute as much as we might be inclined to believe or they are offset by other less tangible factors that are not as readily measured.

[Jim Adams]

I'm not convinced the percentage of hikers completing the A.T. has increased over the years. I would have thought the many advantages hikers today enjoy ought to have had more of an impact.

Maybe in the end, gear, pack weight and services don't contribute as much as we might be inclined to believe or they are offset by other less tangible factors that are not as readily measured.

Finishing or rather completing the AT is mostly mental...good food, bad food, heavy gear, light gear, more resupplies, more hotels, more hostels has been in the frey for years. The difference is in being smart enough to listen to your body and not hurt yourself and the will power and inner self to be able to push yourself to finish even when things aren't perfect. It is more mental than anything else. A 10# pack, great food, tons of money and perfect weather might make it easier but without the correct mind set...you are going home.
If my hot dog helps you good, if my beer helps you good, if you don't want it that's fine but if you need to sit an talk about what's going on in your head and body then I am all ears. If my talking or advice will help your day on the trail then great...we both leave feeling good. The hot dog and beer are just foods and possibly an icebreaker....any mental help is the "magic"

geek

[The Counselor]

If you don't want people, gifts and the like, stop whining and go where there are less people, gifts and the like. There are options to suit all tastes.

[emerald]

Perhaps you miss the point of ATC's efforts and this thread. The A.T. is a managed recreational experience and this discussion is a part of the process.

If my hot dog helps you good, if my beer helps you good, if you don't want it, that's fine, but if you need to sit and talk about what's going on in your head and body, then I am all ears. If my talking or advice will help your day on the trail, great, we both leave feeling good.

I have provided some of the same kind of support myself and benefited from it too, but we have reached the point when so many have hiked the A.T. there is an excess of individuals able to dispense this kind of encouragement. The clutter it creates on the trail and in cyberspace is changing something we all love.

There may be eight thousand living 2000 milers and about another 500 are being added each year. If we all got out on the A.T. at the same time to offer a bit of magic, there would be one of us every 1/4 mile.

Consequently, I don't go out of my way to provide this service. When I am on the A.T. and it seems welcome and helpful, I do, but I only provide information and usually only to hikers with whom I have connected in some other way on the trail or here previously.

Most of the people who provide what has come to be known as trail magic are not providing an essential service and some travel long distances to engage in this activity. They would do more to become involved in their own communities and address genuine needs closer to home.