Winter Snow = 2011 JMT Gear Modifications....?

[tuswm]

what I want to know......

snow gear?
what do i need? boots? ice ax? crampons? gators? added snow or ice traction? snow shoes?

river crossings?
is bare foot OK?
how many water crossings are there?

Bug issues?
head net? deet? permathin? other cloths?

Cold weather cloths?

[tuswm]

This is my gear list as of now.......
My questions are below. Thanks for your time.

big 4
trimmed osprey atmos 65L back pack
tart tent double rainbow
REI sub kilo 20* sleeping bag
therma rest Z-lite sleeping pad

Kitchen
BV500 bear can
steri pen w/ batteries
bladder 100 oz
gsi dualist pot, bowl, cups
snow peak giga stove
fuel canister
silverware TI
pocket knife

clothes
primary
synthetic t-shirt
MHW convertable pants
under armor boxer briefs
wools socks
asolo fugitive boots
non primary cloths
sun glasses
sun hat
wind shirt (water resistant w/ hood)
MHW fleece
MHW base top
shorts
spare underwear
spare socks
MHW green beanie
I should be fine down to 30 sitting around camp with this.


other
head lamp w/ batteries
oh SH1T kit 1st aid, duck tape, matches, sewing kit
toletries chapstick, lighter, tp, tooth brush, tooth paste, deoterant, floss
rope
Map Book
sun screen
bug repellents
================================================== ================================================== ================================================== ===========================================

Right now my base weight is about 19 - 20 before
food
water
fuel

also I was not planning on these things but the snow has me considering......
gloves thin black liners?
fleece base bottom?
head net?
hard shell ( water proof)?
gators?
river crossing/ camp shoes?
snow ice traction?
rain cover for pack?

I feel like I am missing something. I am also worried Ill get up there for 3 weeks and not be prepared for something like wind and cold. how many river crossing are there? I have never had to do one deep enough to get my feet wet. How much time and i going to spend trekking across the snow? Will i be post holing?

[Helmuth.Fishmonger]

If I were to do a July 2010 hike (and I am not - going in October this year), I'd bring the following:

La Sportiva Trango GTX with full gaiter (OD Crocodiles or Expedition) - this setup will walk well on snow without crampons, and for 95% of the water you cross, you just walk through. Big time saver. Also supports well. I don't do floppy running shoes even in the best of climates, so YMMV. Ice axe is dead weight for the entire trail unless you hike without poles. If the snow is bad at Forester, the ice axe will be useful for about 50 feet crossing the snow in the deep ravine that cuts across the trail just south of the pass.

For the deep water crossings, I'd use my Sprint Auatics shoes, super light, but enough protection to keep you safe from sharp rocks and fishing hooks. Tested in three wet summers, I see no need to go heavier on those shoes. I don't use them for camp - boots untied work just fine for that

how many water crossings? we took our shoes off about 5 or 6 times last year, while a person without gaiters and waterproof boots probably would have to do it about 40-50 times unless they are fine walking around wet all day.

Bugs: treat clothes with permethrin, long sleeves and pants, DEET on exposed skin when they get thick. Nothing different from a normal July hike. Definitely use a bug proof shelter. When the bugs get insane (Long Meadow in Yosemite was the worst in 2009, in 2010 it was the south end of Evolution Lake), move to another place. Really not a huge deal. After a few days on the trail, I usually get used to them and they really don't bother me much.

Cold weather clothes: it won't be much colder than normal when there's snow, but you can expect a much more active thunderstorm pattern, with all the moisture up there creating local weather. good rain gear is key in a snow-heavy year - gear that keeps you dry while moving, because if it's really bad, you probably will need to hike in the rain frequently. A good tent that is known to handle rain for a multi-day storm in gusty conditions would also be a good thing to have.

[Helmuth.Fishmonger]

wind shirt (water resistant w/ hood)

that's your rain gear?

Here's a close up of your normal Sierra trail, about 9500 feet elevation (this was Mt. Whitney trail, almost at Lone Pine Lake). This storm only lasted 90 minutes, but it was rather violent. Nothing like the 3 hour hail storm we had July 12, 2008 on top of Donohue Pass, when I thought we're all gonna die (an 12 houses were washed away in Independence...)



another view:



Note the floating hail in what became a pretty good stream flowing down the trail. This is not an exception - most storms do this, and some will last for 36 hours or more. I have done entire JMTs without getting rained on, but all those hikes were after 40% drought winters. When there's moisture on the mountain, you get storms. In July, you also get monsoon flow from Arizona, and that's where gore-tex top to bottom (and a pack cover), or a really REALLY good poncho can save your trip, or at least keep the morale up a little longer. Water "resistant" just won't cut it. you will get wet in those things.

And bring that rain cover for the pack! I have not found a water proof bag. Som pack everyting in big black garbage bags inside the pack, but I hate that mess, plus they do tear after a while. An external rain cover, if it fits well, does keep things dry for camp, even if you hike in rain all day.

I used Ponchos and Marmot Precip jacket/pants on the JMT. Not sure what I like better. The Poncho saves you the pack cover if sized well, but if it's windy, it won't keep you dry. It will keep you cooler if you have to hike in rain. The Gore-tex clothing is part of my layering setup anyway, so I figure it's already in the pack, so why bother with the poncho. Thing is, when it's on/off rainy, the gore-tex jackets and pants can get rather hot on the trail. We had such a day last year. Make sure the colors of that stuff are light, so they don't cook you during those brief interludes of sunshine before the next cloud hits you.

[Helmuth.Fishmonger]

my 2010 gear list - wouldn't change much about it for this year if I went in July

http://didnt.doit.wisc.edu/outdoor/M..._gear_2010.htm

[tuswm]

OK

need real boots...
this is what i plan on using

need real GTX shell
deet
permathin



considering.......
gators
creek crossing shoes
head net?

[Woods]

When are you going on the trail? If there was a date listed I missed it.

[fiddlehead]

Yeah, the date means a lot this year.
I've heard 50' of snow in some places in the Sierras.
I don't mind walking on old snow and actually enjoy it.
But the fords will be tough throughout July I would think.
Know proper technique for sure and take time to search for the best place.
I would definitely take a head net.
And know how to self arrest (practice most days on the kind of snow you will be needing it in)
Good luck.

[tuswm]

Well its in another thread but we will be starting the last week in July

[tuswm]

and how do you self arrest on snow with no ice ax?

[Helmuth.Fishmonger]

and how do you self arrest on snow with no ice ax?

you don't. Those who have an ice axe usually don't either, unless they are very experienced and actually have practiced how to do this and actually have the ice axe in their hands when needed.

Most ice axes out in summer spend the JMT strapped to the back of a pack. Heck, I had mine strapped to the pack two weeks ago on Whitney for the most part, and that was on the Mountaineer's Route in full winter conditions. These things are nice when the going gets very steep. The rest of the time, hiking poles are much more effective.

Like I said before, there is really only one place where things get steep on the snow on the JMT - just below Forester on the south side. Could use it north of Mather, too, if you're not totally cool with a 35-40 degree slope.

The lightest ice axes weigh a pound - I'd bring one in early July, not in late July.

[Dogwood]

I'm with HM on most of his ice axe advice. If you are going to haul one KNOW how to use it(learn self arrest and practice it) and be aware of where you would use it should you need to. Two of the most dangerous places, should it be decided you need need it, IF IF IF, after checking snow level reports(www.postholer) just before you head out to the JMT(also check with the BACK COUNTRY RANGERS OFFICE in Yosemite Vally at Yosemite NP about present snow conditions before you head off, these are the guys who hike the trail and report about just such things, I find their info if it's up to date to be the most useful, better than graphs or opnions of what might be), are where HM mentioned going SOBO.

HM also mentions using trekking poles for self arrest - certainly possible should you unexpectedly encounter some very brief stretches of steep snow and/or ice. I have also use a long flat rock when unexpectedly encountering a brief steep snowfield.

Late July start though, starting out at Happy Isles, given that you are going SOBO(I think that's the way you said you are going), and that it will take several hiking days before you hit Forrester Pass(meaning that's more time for the snow to melt) and warm thawing temps and and and??? Get my drift? Pun intended! Just make those last minute snow level checks and adjust your gear accordingly.

Camp Corsa Iceaxe - 7 oz., about $110, aluminum shaft and head, the real thing! UL!

[Helmuth.Fishmonger]

HM also mentions using trekking poles for self arrest -

actually, I didn't mean to imply that. Use them to avoid losing your balance and falling in the first place. Once you get sliding, I doubt you can do much with them unless you buy some custom poles that have the self-arrest feature built in like this Black Diamond Pole - note these are sold per item, so a pair is $$$

http://www.backcountry.com/black-dia...rrest-ski-pole

I've been in situations that appeared "easy" at first, so I walked out onto a snow drift with just snow shoes and poles, only to realize mid snow field, that the snow was all different (wind packed, no grip in the snow shoes, even though they are the very aggressive kind with metal traction bards below). So then mid snow field, I am taking them off, to pound steps into the hard white stuff, 1000 feet of 45+ degree slope below me, with what appears to be a rather abrupt end in snow free talus... No chance to put crampons on, ice axe is on the back of the pack and that thing is too heavy to dare to take off in that position... those are the moments you look back at on the other side saying "damn, I should have turned around early and changed to crampons and ice axe, instead of doing the stupid thing I did..."

you learn from that stuff. I certainly have a whole new outlook on these expensive self-arrest trekking poles, and I know I'll get them for my winter-JMT. For summer? Nah.

[Helmuth.Fishmonger]

going SOBO, if worried about snow on Mather and Forester, perhaps even Glen in a bad year, you could mail that ice axe with your resupply to MTR, although I doubt it would fit into a bucket. Maybe to VVR, where you can mail packages of any shape. Saves you a few ounces on the northern half.

But again, in late July, you will probably use the thing for no more than 200 feet of snow. In early July, things may be intersting in places you rarely see snow, such as upper Le Conte Canyon, or sections of the south face of Mather. Glen is a wild card with high snow, depending on where the winds were blowing from in winter. Each summer in recent years was very different up there. It's not about how much snow fell, but where it accumulated. The normal average snow depth would easily melt off on these passes, even at 600", but what happens is that in some ravines, you will get 1800" of snow, and much of that will be there through August.

[Helmuth.Fishmonger]

OK

need real boots...
this is what i plan on using

need real GTX shell
deet
permathin



considering.......
gators
creek crossing shoes
head net?

The boots are what my son used in 2008. He liked them - good compromise between a "real boot" and a lighter shoe. They did wear out after one JMT, though.

Gaitors - for summer, the light OD Verglas are fine, since you don't have to have fabric that can withstand crampons from tearing into them. My kids used them for two summers and they were great on semi-flooded crossings where the rocks were under water, but not more than 8"

http://www.backcountry.com/outdoor-r...as-gaiter-mens

size them so they are very snug around the bottom where the sit on the boot - that's what keeps the water down below the boot rim when you splash through streams.

here's your typical July crossing that won't even slow you down with this setup:

[tuswm]

Man every time I talk to you guys my pack gets heavier.

[schnikel]

Man every time I talk to you guys my pack gets heavier.

Funny as hell! And exactly what I was thinking! This sounds like it will be a fun year to hike the JMT.
Schnikel

[tuswm]

whats your start date?

[schnikel]

Aug. 15th from glacier point. My wife and I are planning on 17 days to get to Whitney including 1 zerro at VVR.
Schnikel

[tuswm]

I went to the REI attic sale today and picked up 3 things
VFF toe shoes
Neo Air no weight savings but comfier x 1000 then a z rest and smaller
Outdoor Research Verglas Gaiter

all for 70 bucks