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  1. #1
    Registered User John B's Avatar
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    Default Sub-2:00 hr marathon?

    A very good article by the BBC on the possibility of a sub-2:00 hr marathon. I doubt that I'll live long enough to see it, but some of you here should.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-1...ry_continues_2

    Coincidentally, today's Boston marathon was won in a new world record time, 2:03.2, by Geoff Mutai (Kenya). That time totally shattered Gebrselassi's 2008 record of 2:03.59 in the Berlin. But today's time isn't recognized as a world record because of a strong tail wind. Still, it was cool to see.

    When JenPharr sets the new AT record, we'll have to check weather maps to see if she had an unfair tail wind advantage.

  2. #2

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    The other day I saw a guy that runs a lot of marathons, he was freakin' tiny. Not just in height, but in total body composition. He definitely had leg muscles, but just small. Looked just like one of them little Kenyan/ethiopian runners on TV. You really don't get a full appreciation of how small they are by watching on TV.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    A very good article by the BBC on the possibility of a sub-2:00 hr marathon. I doubt that I'll live long enough to see it, but some of you here should.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-1...ry_continues_2

    Coincidentally, today's Boston marathon was won in a new world record time, 2:03.2, by Geoff Mutai (Kenya). That time totally shattered Gebrselassi's 2008 record of 2:03.59 in the Berlin. But today's time isn't recognized as a world record because of a strong tail wind. Still, it was cool to see.

    When JenPharr sets the new AT record, we'll have to check weather maps to see if she had an unfair tail wind advantage.
    Not because of the tail wind, but because of the net downhill elevation at Boston. Nevermind that there are a few uphills too, but the net downhill voids the world record. Outstanding performance though. I could maybe keep up with them for 1 mile when I was 18 and in high school track!

  4. #4

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    Whatever the reason, wind/hills, what if the guy did do a sub-two hour, would that have been thrown out also? I mean how do they compensate for these things? If Gebreselassi's record-breaking run was done in similar circumstances and on the same course as this run by Mutai what would have been the result?

    So is the Boston marathon course not an appropriate course for setting records? So many questions...

  5. #5
    Nalgene Ninja flemdawg1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john gault View Post
    So is the Boston marathon course not an appropriate course for setting records? So many questions...
    Yes. But its considered one of the Big 5 Marathons (New York, Chicago, London & Berlin are the others), with a nice cash prize, so it'll continue to attract the best talent.
    http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/blo...n?urn=oly-wp98

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by flemdawg1 View Post
    Yes. But its considered one of the Big 5 Marathons (New York, Chicago, London & Berlin are the others), with a nice cash prize, so it'll continue to attract the best talent.
    http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/blo...n?urn=oly-wp98
    Thanks, this statement from your link basically turns many of my questions into simply acamdemic questions vice practical, but still very interesting problems, but they took the easy way out

    "A tailwind accompanied the race and doubtlessly aided in Mutai's time, but the wind was irrelevant given the start-to-finish elevation decrease. Even if Mutai had run the course in a hurricane headwind, the world record still wouldn't have counted."

  7. #7
    Pilgrim of Serendipity
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    He should come to the Houston Marathon... the ground here is flat as a pancake! I'm no runner, but I had a friend in it this year so I went to cheer him on, and I was impressed by the thousands of people running in it. They do it in January so heat's not an issue.
    Deuteronomy 23:12-13 "Designate a place outside the camp where you can go to relieve yourself. As part of your equipment have something to dig with… dig a hole and cover up your excrement."

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    Registered User John B's Avatar
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    Read 'em and weep. Mutai's splits were:
    5k: 14:32
    10k: 29:08
    half: 1:01.58

    Average pace: 4:42

  9. #9
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    Faster than I can run 400m.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post

    Coincidentally, today's Boston marathon was won in a new world record time, 2:03.2, by Geoff Mutai (Kenya). That time totally shattered Gebrselassi's 2008 record of 2:03.59 in the Berlin. But today's time isn't recognized as a world record because of a strong tail wind. Still, it was cool to see.
    I wouldn't call being beaten by 40 seconds "record shattering", especially in regards to a marathon.

  11. #11
    Registered User John B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trailbender View Post
    I wouldn't call being beaten by 40 seconds "record shattering", especially in regards to a marathon.
    I know that you wouldn't, but the editors of Runners World and Running Times do. I look forward to your cites demonstrating that shaving 40 seconds isn't a big deal. Here are a few others I found:


    "...surreal achievement..." USA Today. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olymp...nwomen18_N.htm

    "...smashed the course record..." Peter May, NY TIMES. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/19/sp...9marathon.html

    "... he blistered the Boston Marathon course... a stunning performance ..." ESPN. http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/news/story?id=6381520

    " I can't believe this is happening right now. I'm running a 2:04 pace, and I can't even see the leaders It was unreal." Ryan Hall, American marathon record holder, on Mutai's time. http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-...,4012652.story

    "We had a stunning performance and an immensely fast time here today," Tom Grilk. http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-boston-marathon-20110419,0,4012652.story

    "The time — nearly a minute faster than the recognized global best — seemed impossible.... There has never been a day like it, here or anywhere else " John Powers. http://www.boston.com/sports/maratho...y_any_measure/

    You might only once in your lifetime have the opportunity to see someone do something better than it has ever been done before,”http://bostonmarathon.runnersworld.com/2011/04/kenyan-geoffrey-mutai-runs-20302-marathon-the-fastest-ever-ryan-hall-fourth-in-american-fastest-20458.html
    Last edited by John B; 04-19-2011 at 11:25. Reason: citations

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    I know that you wouldn't, but the editors of Runners World and Running Times do. I look forward to your cites demonstrating that shaving 40 seconds isn't a big deal. Here are a few others I found:


    "...surreal achievement..." USA Today. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olymp...nwomen18_N.htm

    "...smashed the course record..." Peter May, NY TIMES. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/19/sp...9marathon.html

    "... he blistered the Boston Marathon course... a stunning performance ..." ESPN. http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/news/story?id=6381520

    " I can't believe this is happening right now. I'm running a 2:04 pace, and I can't even see the leaders It was unreal." Ryan Hall, American marathon record holder, on Mutai's time. http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-...,4012652.story

    "We had a stunning performance and an immensely fast time here today," Tom Grilk. http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-boston-marathon-20110419,0,4012652.story

    "The time — nearly a minute faster than the recognized global best — seemed impossible.... There has never been a day like it, here or anywhere else " John Powers. http://www.boston.com/sports/maratho...y_any_measure/

    “You might only once in your lifetime have the opportunity to see someone do something better than it has ever been done beforehttp://bostonmarathon.runnersworld.com/2011/04/kenyan-geoffrey-mutai-runs-20302-marathon-the-fastest-ever-ryan-hall-fourth-in-american-fastest-20458.html
    What they think really doesn't matter to me. 40 seconds in a long run like that could be due to not tripping, a loose shoelace, or any number of other things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    Read 'em and weep. Mutai's splits were:
    5k: 14:32
    10k: 29:08
    half: 1:01.58

    Average pace: 4:42
    Yep, I ran a 4.38 competition mile in my High School senior year in the 1960's (good but no where near great). When I hit the finish (2nd place) my legs were rubber and I fell to the track. Today I could not run a marathon in twice his time.
    That is so amazing that this guy could run 4:42 pace for 26+ miles.
    The human has evolved into such an incredible creation!... however, I have to believe that this guy has reached his peak. It is a short lived sport.

  14. #14

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    Yeah, I do understand the competitiveness with sports, even a few seconds seems to make a huge deal. Back when I played regularly, around 2002-2003, I had the world record in Soldier of Fortune DM, 56 kills in 37 seconds, and that was with the spawning 9mm. It was debated among many people, depending on what map we were on, and the general concensus was that closer quarters maps enabled me to target enemies much faster than having to hunt people down, and the headshot quadrant factor was a significant multiplier as well.

  15. #15
    Nalgene Ninja flemdawg1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trailbender View Post
    What they think really doesn't matter to me. 40 seconds in a long run like that could be due to not tripping, a loose shoelace, or any number of other things.
    Then go out and beat it.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by flemdawg1 View Post
    Then go out and beat it.
    I don't run marathons, so i wouldn't be able to beat them. It would be like getting one of the marathon runners a computer and having them try to beat me in a first person shooter. Different sports, different abilities.

  17. #17
    Registered User Monkeywrench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trailbender View Post
    What they think really doesn't matter to me. 40 seconds in a long run like that could be due to not tripping, a loose shoelace, or any number of other things.
    40 seconds for a duffer like me that runs 4 hour marathons is nothing, but 40 seconds at the level world-class runners compete at is a LOT.
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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeywrench View Post
    40 seconds for a duffer like me that runs 4 hour marathons is nothing, but 40 seconds at the level world-class runners compete at is a LOT.
    I see your point, and understand it. In my sport, I am at the world class level, and a quarter second can mean the difference between living or dying. I don't compete in tournaments at the moment, as I have not found a game I like, but I have been ranked pretty highly in all the games I have played. At that level, everyone is about the same, top notch, and a slight mistake either way is what separates winners from headless chunks of flesh. This one shooter, STALKER, is renowned for it's difficulty and mercilessness, and I play it on the hardest skill level, using only a handgun.

    I mentioned that different sports have different rules, and abilities. Asking that question is like asking who will win a 100 yard dash, a runner or a world class weightlifter. You put any of the top class athletes in most other sports besides computer gaming in with me, and play a shooter, they are going to get destroyed. Doesn't mean they are worse than me, it just means they are very skilled in other areas.

  19. #19

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    Here's a scenario, what if a guy does a sub-2 hour marathon on an approved course for world records. But he does it with a 20-mph tailwind. Is there an asterix* placed next to the guy's name?

    I remember watching a time-trial http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_time_trial in the TdF and the guys that started earlier had a very good tail wind, but the the guys that started later missed out on the tailwind, and tail winds on the bike is a much bigger advantage, but it doesn't matter. All times are recorded as completed w/o concern with environmental conditions, despite everyone knowing that some had a much bigger advantage.


    BTW, if any of you'll have US (Universal Sports channel) tonight at 7pm they will be airing: Indulgence: 1000 miles A profile of ultra marathoner Anton Krupicka as he prepared for the leadville race in 2007.

  20. #20

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    3 facts and I'm gone.

    1. I can state with certainty that if a sub 2 hour marathon is run it won't be by me. There is a good chance that my days of sub 4 hour marathons are also in the past.

    2. 40 seconds in a marathon is huge.

    3. A video game ain't no sport.

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