boy scouts resuced

[Dances with Mice]

Bolo - the article said there were 30 members in the group, it didn't say what the adult / youth ratio was. One adult was admitted to the hospital, probably the one-lunged older 'chaperone'. Never forget that the leaders of any Troop are the Scouts. Check the Handbook, the word 'leader' always refers to a youth. In this case adult supervision was inadequate. It's not just semantics, when adults lead Scout troops trouble will follow.

J.D. - Consider volunteering to be a Counselor for the Hiking, Backpacking, and Wilderness Survival Merit Badges. As a Counselor you could then work with Scouts, probably older Scouts, from several troops. What they learn from you would then be passed down to the younger Scouts in their Troops.

Contact the local Council to get registered as a Counselor. Then from the Council get a list of Troops near you and let them know you're available. Find out when Roundtables are, show up there and introduce yourself to the adult Scouters and tell them to have applicants for those badges call you. You could put together a program that would help the boys meet the requirements for the Badges. You could do this working with a group of boys from several troops. It would put you in direct contact with the Scouts who are already in leadership positions within their Troops, and your expertise would then have a greater impact than if you got bogged down in the administrivia that's always present in any one Troop.

Also consider starting a Venturing Crew for older Scouts, adults are needed for Advisors. Crews can be co-ed, and boys can be registered in both Scouting and Venturing programs. Venturing is less hassle and more fun.

[Bolo]

[QUOTE=Dances with Mice]Bolo - the article said there were 30 members in the group, it didn't say what the adult / youth ratio was. One adult was admitted to the hospital, probably the one-lunged older 'chaperone'. Never forget that the leaders of any Troop are the Scouts. Check the Handbook, the word 'leader' always refers to a youth. In this case adult supervision was inadequate. It's not just semantics, when adults lead Scout troops trouble will follow.

QUOTE]
DWM,
I am aware that "the leaders of any troop are the Scouts," however "boy-run" leadership failed the boys on this trip...The fact that anyone (boys or adults) let them wear tennis shoes, bothers me. Time for a "thorns and roses" session at their next troop meeting. AND, the article stated their were 30 on the camping trip but only 11, including the older, one-lunged adult went on the hike. The BSA Guide to Safe Scouting concerning winter camping safety states " direct supervision should be maintained at all times by 2 or more adults when the boys are 'in the field.'" I'm assuming "in the field" meant the hiking expo with the 11 scouts?

Your suggestion to J.D. on the Venturing Crew was excellent advice. I'm thinking about going there myself. 11-12 yrs olds are great fun...15-16 year olds test my patience!

Bolo

[Frog]

I considered going this weekend right up to the point that i read the weather report for Rogers and that the wind was suppose to be bad. All ways check the weather and add to it if you are going in an area that is like a bald in most places. Knowing on balds theres no where to get out of the wind. The temps are always colder up high (in most cases) so any weather report that you get for an area you should consider that that report is for an in town report.

[Dances with Mice]

DWM, I am aware that "the leaders of any troop are the Scouts," however "boy-run" leadership failed the boys on this trip...The fact that anyone (boys or adults) let them wear tennis shoes, bothers me. Time for a "thorns and roses" session at their next troop meeting. AND, the article stated their were 30 on the camping trip but only 11, including the older, one-lunged adult went on the hike. The BSA Guide to Safe Scouting concerning winter camping safety states " direct supervision should be maintained at all times by 2 or more adults when the boys are 'in the field.'" I'm assuming "in the field" meant the hiking expo with the 11 scouts?

Read it again.

The article doesn't say how many went on the hike, I assume it was the 30 that showed up. Of the hikers, "those that could" walked out then squads rescued those that couldn't. 11 were admitted to the hospital, including 1 adult. I'm assuming these were the ones rescued, you're assuming it was the entire hiking group.

But that's a minor point. You're correct that both the leadership and the adult supervision failed. That often happens when adults don't develop or allow youth leadership because when the adults lead, who is left to supervise? I've seen the results time after time, unfortunately. It never works but usually no one gets hurt.

[ed bell]

Rock, I went ahead with a short overnight off of Highway215 at the Blue Ridge Parkway this past Saturday. We had a low of -2F and winds over 50mph. I have often wondered what my threshold for cancelling would be, usually it involves changing the length of hike and campsite rather than cancelling altogether. I can always add gear. I would like to think that cold temps and wind wouldn't keep me out, but a severe snowstorm would. I recall a freak March snowstorm down here (Southern Appalachians) that put over 40 inches down at the Pisgah Inn on the Parkway. Stranded all kinds of people. Tennis shoes in 0 degree weather is insanity. If the Scouts checked in with a ranger and he let them go on, I would question that decision.

[SGT Rock]

Well he may have assumed that because they "had a lot of gear" that the scouts checking in were not in their trail clothing and footware, something that probably more hikers than me practice, well at least before I switched to running shoes. Also, I have to admitt that at times I have expected some snow, I have even still worn trail runners, but I knew what I was expecting and what I was doing. I certainly wouldn't have done it with a foot of snow sitting on the ground and more coming.

I also think you are right about plan changes. If I had driven all the way to Mt Rogers and there was bad weather on the way, I probably still would have gone out too, just not as far.

[NICKTHEGREEK]

When I was in the service we always tried to be aware of something we called "get-home-itis" basically it was a mindset that led you into making a poor decision about flying im marginal weather because you would get home to your family if all went well. We always tried to balance it by remembering that if marginal conditions went bad, we'd never see home again.
While I was active in scouting I made sure everyone knew what we considered to be the minimums for every outing, be it physical conditioning, equipment, or weather conditions. This troop suffered from get-out-there-itis and rather than cancel they foolishly pressed on. Hopefully all will recover with just a hard learned lesson.

[Ramble~On]

I don't blame the Scouts.
The fact that a few of these Scouts were able to attend this outting with the gear they had is all I need to know about the adult leadership in this particular Scout group. Let alone the participation of any of their parents.
At the very least if my 12-15 yr old were going on any such trip in winter I'd atleast check out what he was planning on taking.
It is very fortunate that the outcome didn't turn deadly.

I spent Sunday night on Bob Bald in the Citico Creek Wilderness (just SW of GSMNP) 5300 ft. at 7pm the temperature was 15 below zero...what it got down to that night I don't know cause I was in my tent. Having spent the past couple of days out hiking...I couldn't imagine being out there without the proper equipment. Those kids no doubt went through a living hell.

I have been involved with leading Scout trips for the past few years and I plan to continue. I won't even start to go into what all this guy did wrong.

I'm no expert on the subject but I do love winter backpacking...the guy that was responsible for this trip should reconsider his involvement in leading trips.

[RenaissanceMan98]

For folks who have knowledge and are interested in using it proactively to help curtail events such as this one in the future.

Your knowledge is a resource that any scout leader worth their pack will be more than happy to rely upon. If you are a thru-hiker you will probably find that you have a very high level of well-earned respect coming your way from a scout troop.

A friend of mine (Bushwack) and I spent an evening week before last with the local Scout troop discussing winter camping and hiking issues, in order to help prepare them for an upcoming trip. It was great fun, brought back a lot of memories, both from my youth and my hikes on the AT, and was extremely appreciated by both scouts and adults.

We broke it down this way:

Bushwack discussed clothing layering, hitting heavily on the drawbacks of cotton, then he covered campsite location and setup, sleeping gear, and he ended with appropriate meal planning for winter camping. He even put together bags of gorp for each scout, to demonstrate balances of fat/protein/carbs and how they each effect the body's ability to regulate temp.

I followed him with a discussion of tricks/techniques for maintaining and increasing body heat and then spoke in detail about cold weather specific first aid issues. i.e hypothermia and frost nip, their signs and symptoms, treatment, and prevention.

I highly recommend the experience.

[Pencil Pusher]

Who the heck would resuce the boy scouts? Geez Louise, nobody should have to suffer through a resuce.

[VAMTNHIKER]

I highly recommend working with a troop or crew... we only ask for "one hour a week" .... yeah.... promise!...

A lot of short term frustrations... but a great amount of long term satisfaction when you see the impact on the young adults.

If you can be a training resource for a unit, you help train the leaders to be safe also!

Yours in Scouting,

Scouter Steve

ex-Cubmaster
ex-Scoutmaster
ex-Venturing Crew Advisor
Philmont '69, '71, '04

[The Hammocker]

I'm gonna tell this one to the guys on the next campout.