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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sly View Post
    Not that I'm going to impact them more than the hordes the AMC brings in, there's delicate lichens and fragile plants.
    These lichens are what's eating our mountains. I say kill the damn things.

    Or you can just eat them http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A54hTn0C7IY

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sly View Post
    According to the AMC rules there's no camping near the Huts, I believe under the auspices of protecting the environment. Probably more like their pocketbook.
    Actually Sly, I belive that is a Forest Service rule and applies to any official, established camping spot. There is no camping allowed with in 1/4 mile of these facilities and none above tree line, which double forbids camping near a number of AMC huts.

    Anyway, if you were hiking up there "after season", you should have planned to have stayed at Crag Camp or Gray Knob (which are open all year round).

    But don't take my defending the AMC wrong, I am not a memeber and don't really like the fact they seem to be more of a resort and hotel operation then a non-profit originzation. However, they were there first and have been for over a 100 years, so they have some clout.
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Wolf View Post
    pretty hard to damage granite. the "environment" in the whites ain't being harmed
    Just so long as they stay on the granite, which isn't always the case, especially with those who try to camp up there. They would rathier set up a tent on a pacth of thin soil with fragile plants growing on it, then lay down on a rock.
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    Just so long as they stay on the granite, which isn't always the case, especially with those who try to camp up there. They would rathier set up a tent on a pacth of thin soil with fragile plants growing on it, then lay down on a rock.
    whatever. 1 moose will cause more damage than a bunch of hikers. kill the moose?

  5. #25
    Registered User Grampie's Avatar
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    Part of being a thru-hiker is in the planing. Hiking through the Whites takes some planing. Before you climb the Whites you must be shure that you have adaquately prepaired. You need a warmer sleeping bag and warm clothing incase you face bad weather. The tempeture can easily fall into th 30s or 40s any time of the year. You must also consider where you are going to spend the night and plan accordinaly. Work for stay does not always work. If you arrive late the crew will not let you work for stay so be prepaired to move on or pay.
    Stop at the Hiker Welcome Hostel. These guys can give you all the advise you wiull need to safely hike thru the Whites.
    Grampie-N->2001

  6. #26
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    There are a lot of regulations on camping in the White Mountain National Forest.
    Above treeline, please obey these regs. It's a fragile environment and needs to be protected.
    Briefly: No camping in the Alpine zone (trees less than 8' tall).
    No camping within 200' of trails or water.
    No camping within 1/4 mile of hut, shelter, developed tent site, cabin, ...

    Basically, if you are not staying at the AMC or RMC shelters, your main option is to drop down considerably lower in elevation. Even where it is legal, sometimes it can be pretty hard to find a spot for a tent (maybe a hammock is easier). I wish the AMC huts were cheaper, but the cost is a reality. If you want to avoid them, you'll have to plan carefully.

    If it is a matter of life or death, I suppose I would forgive you for bivying above treeline. BUT, if the weather is that bad you may not survive. Survival is much more likely below treeline. Descending is almost always your best option. Above treeline you should always know the best escape route to a safe location. Very few thru-hikers carry equipment that would assure survival above treeline in summer in bad weather. The worse weather in July or August would be torrential rain, temps in the 30s and 100 mph winds. It's usually possible to avoid the worst weather by checking weather reports before you go up and by descending if the weather deteriorates.
    Camping in the Alpine Zone(where trees are 8 feet tall or less)
    No camping except on 2 or more feet of
    snow
    • No camping on frozen bodies of water
    • No wood or charcoal fires
    from the Forest Service brochure on backcountry camping rules.
    http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/forests/white_mountain/recreation/camping/2010_backcountry_rules_web.pdf





  7. #27
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    There are a lot of regulations on camping in the White Mountain National Forest.
    Above treeline, please obey these regs. It's a fragile environment and needs to be protected.
    Briefly: No camping in the Alpine zone (trees less than 8' tall).
    No camping within 200' of trails or water.
    No camping within 1/4 mile of hut, shelter, developed tent site, cabin, ...

    Basically, if you are not staying at the AMC or RMC shelters, your main option is to drop down considerably lower in elevation. Even where it is legal, sometimes it can be pretty hard to find a spot for a tent (maybe a hammock is easier). I wish the AMC huts were cheaper, but the cost is a reality. If you want to avoid them, you'll have to plan carefully.

    If it is a matter of life or death, I suppose I would forgive you for bivying above treeline. BUT, if the weather is that bad you may not survive. Survival is much more likely below treeline. Descending is almost always your best option. Above treeline you should always know the best escape route to a safe location. Very few thru-hikers carry equipment that would assure survival above treeline in summer in bad weather. The worse weather in July or August would be torrential rain, temps in the 30s and 100 mph winds. It's usually possible to avoid the worst weather by checking weather reports before you go up and by descending if the weather deteriorates.
    Camping in the Alpine Zone(where trees are 8 feet tall or less)
    No camping except on 2 or more feet of
    snow
    No camping on frozen bodies of water
    No wood or charcoal fires
    from the Forest Service brochure on backcountry camping rules.
    http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/forests/white_mountain/recreation/camping/2010_backcountry_rules_web.pdf





  8. #28
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    Sorry for the double post. I don't know why that happened.

  9. #29
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    In the initial post dgposey's last sentence implies an attitude that can cause problems for future thru-hikers. Understandably thru-hikers are a special breed in the hiking community, but it doesn't allow for special treatment, and as thru-hikers we should respect the trail and all it's rules whether written or unwritten.

    The cost of an overnight stay at the huts in the White Mountains is expensive but their expenses are high as well. The "croo" try to accomodate thru-hikers, but as a thru-hiker you should not expect "special" treatment, and if as you state in your last sentence, ".... and I'm certainly not willing to pay the ridiculously high fees", then you should plan on ending your day in another location along the trail.

    All along the trail from GA to ME people are turned off by poor attitudes or actions of hikers and as a result those who follow can experience a less than favorable welcome.

    Please... all who travel the A.T., just like trash, don't leave anything behind that will lessen the experience of those who follow.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sly View Post
    I reached the Madison Spring Hut after season. Severely fatigued and hurting, I wasn't expecting anyone to be there and planned on staying outside in the small foyer. To my surprise when I arrived, there was a caretaker there closing the hut for the season. He refused to let me stay and sent me down the trail to the Valley campsite, where I further injured myself along the way. At that point, I needed to leave the trail and end my thru-hike. To literally add insult to injury, I was reading Trail Journals a few days later and saw where the same caretaker, invited another thru-hiker to stay the night if he washed dishes.

    At that point I swore, never to listen to a caretaker again. I understand the need for rules in the high country and the damage that can be done to the fragile environment, but when a group like the AMC brings thousands of hikers to the area every year, are they doing the environment any favors?
    You - show up after work-for-stay no longer available due to close hut and trying to illegally camp next to shelter, caretaker advises you on the closest legal campsite

    Other hiker - shows up during season and took advantage of work-for stay.

    The thousands of people using the hut system have less impact than you illegally camping above treeline.You shouldn't have pushed thru to Madison. Your thru hike ended due to your own poor decisions. Hopefully you will realize that someday. The caretaker did exactly the right thing.

    Sincerely,
    Tom Murphy

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Wolf View Post
    whatever. 1 moose will cause more damage than a bunch of hikers. kill the moose?
    Unlike humans, moose dont have the capacity to think.they do have instincts however, and wouldnt catch one trying to reach the highest peaks in a thunderstorm. If a moose were to turn up at the hut, he would be expected to either work for stay(if there are any working moose positions that havent been taken yet),or pay like the rest of the guests.

  12. #32
    Registered User Carl in FL's Avatar
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    Wall decor is the only moose "opening" I am aware of.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl in FL View Post
    Wall decor is the only moose "opening" I am aware of.
    That's more of a career opportunity.

  14. #34
    Registered User weary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sly View Post
    According to the AMC rules there's no camping near the Huts, I believe under the auspices of protecting the environment. Probably more like their pocketbook.
    Those are National Forest rules, not AMC rules. Though AMC like everyone has the right to propose, support, or oppose NFS rules. The reason AMC is now a big time landowner in Maine is partly, at least, to get out from under the control of federal rules.

  15. #35
    PCT, Sheltowee, Pinhoti, LT , BMT, AT, SHT, CDT 560 miles 10-K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountain squid View Post
    \I betcha Pack Rat and Phatt Chapp could count on one hand the number of hikers that have asked for advice before hitting the Whites . . .

    See you on the trail,
    mt squid
    Put me on that hand. I took Phatt Chapp out to dinner and picked his brain for 2 hours. And that was after slackpacking from Franconia Notch back to the hostel in Glencliff in 12 hours.

    And then I got lucky and got work for stay at every hut I stopped out. I bet I gained 5 lbs going through the Whites.
    Last edited by 10-K; 07-22-2011 at 20:39.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10-K View Post
    Put me on that hand. I took Phatt Chapp out to dinner and picked his brain for 2 hours. And that was after slackpacking from Franconia Notch back to the hostel in Glencliff in 12 hours.

    And then I got lucky and got work for stay at every hut I stopped out. I bet I gained 5 lbs going through the Whites.
    Just don't count on getting even a paid spot the last week of August. They are full! I got advice from Phat Chap to try and call ahead when I wanted a spot... but found all paid spots were gone. I did get several work for stays and lucked into cancellations at Lake of the Clouds and Madison.

  17. #37
    PCT, Sheltowee, Pinhoti, LT , BMT, AT, SHT, CDT 560 miles 10-K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hat View Post
    Just don't count on getting even a paid spot the last week of August. They are full! I got advice from Phat Chap to try and call ahead when I wanted a spot... but found all paid spots were gone. I did get several work for stays and lucked into cancellations at Lake of the Clouds and Madison.
    My luck was really getting into the Whites just as the huts were opening. The first one I stayed out the croo was still getting everything ready to open the next day. There weren't even any guests there that night. By the time I got to whatever hut is just north of Mt. Washington it was *packed* but I still got a space in a bunk.

    Carter Notch I had to sleep on the floor but I had a mattress. This was my favorite hut BTW.

  18. #38
    Fat Guy Lemni Skate's Avatar
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    What is the longest stretch you will hike where you are in an Alpine Zone? Does the trail drop below the tree line at least once per day?
    Lemni Skate away

    The trail will save my life

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemni Skate View Post
    What is the longest stretch you will hike where you are in an Alpine Zone? Does the trail drop below the tree line at least once per day?
    about 12 miles

  20. #40
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowleopard View Post
    No camping within 200' of trails or water.
    FWIW, those are listed as a good LNT practice in the brochure but are not a blanket restrictions in the Whites.

    In many areas below treeline in the Whites which outside of federally designated Wilderness areas, it is perfectly legal to camp right next to a trail-- including the AT, or next to a body of water.

    That brochure lists many of the exceptions.

    Bottom line, don't automatically assume someone camped below tree line right next to the AT in the Whites is there illegally. In some areas he might be, and some areas he might not be.

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