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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Murphy View Post
    I would hope those people are camping at star lake in emergency conditions only, otherwise that is an incredibly selfish thing to do.
    I agree tom.Im absolutely not condoning it.and thats exactly what I meant,in emergency conditions only, you could still find a place to bivy, and I doubt you'd get chased away. there are the RMC sites, valley campsite and osgood( a bit futher) as alternatives around madison.and of course it might make sense to heed the warning signs telling you to go back in bad weather.

  2. #62
    Registered User House of Payne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by House of Payne View Post
    I'm an AMC member like some of the responders are, and I was I was curious on the AMC's official position on the subject so I jotted them an e-mail about this. I'm sure their answer will be "by the book", pay or go.
    My email to the AMC (7/28/2011);
    I'm a current AMC member and am
    currently planning a thru-hike
    for 2014. One of the questions
    that has come up in some of the
    AT forums is stays at the AMC
    high huts on the trip. Some are
    saying opportunity for work for
    stay (however limited) and others
    say that many get turned away. My
    question to you is why some thru-
    hikers would be turned away when
    the huts are somewhat isolated to
    begin with and situations may
    arise where a thru-hiker cannot
    move on to another
    site/hut/shelter. What is the
    AMC's official view on this
    subject so I can prepare this
    portion of my trip.

    thanks,


    AMC's response this morning;

    The hut crew has some tasks that a thru hiker can help with in return for dinner and breakfast with the crew.

    There are only a certain number of tasks at a hut. You would talk to the hut crew when you arrive.

    Hope that this helps to clarify.-Elizabeth


    I kind of hoped for more of a response from the AMC on this one, instead it looks as if they skirted around what I was asking.


  3. #63
    Registered User Carl in FL's Avatar
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    Reading between the lines, it looks like "we won't throw you out headfirst
    into the snow, but don't expect to be fed unless we have work for you".

    That's more or less humane.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl in FL View Post
    Reading between the lines, it looks like "we won't throw you out headfirst
    into the snow, but don't expect to be fed unless we have work for you".

    That's more or less humane.
    You are reading something that is not there, even between the lines. Why would anyone be on the Whites and not fully prepared for snow or ice or freaking cold weather? Even after my rolled up tent was frozen from being rained on the night before, I didn't go begging at a yuppie shelter. It was closed anyway, but was being shut down by some left over staff. Didn't even approach it.One more fond memory to talk about.
    The trouble I have with campfires are the folks that carry a bottle in one hand and a Bible in the other.
    You never know which one is talking.

  5. #65
    Registered User Carl in FL's Avatar
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    So you don't know what they would have said because you didn't ask.
    I agree one should not be "on the Whites" without being prepared. We
    shouldn't go out in the ocean if we can't swim either. However, the
    lifeguards rescue first and pass judgment later.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl in FL View Post
    So you don't know what they would have said because you didn't ask.
    I agree one should not be "on the Whites" without being prepared. We
    shouldn't go out in the ocean if we can't swim either. However, the
    lifeguards rescue first and pass judgment later.
    And if you need emergency attention, by all means go to a hut and ask for help to get off the trail. Lifeguards don't toss you back out to swim after they save you either.
    The OP was talking about a thru hiker lying to the hut that he had no money and what if it was "temperamental" (his words) weather.
    If he got all the way to New Hampshire with that attitude, who else did he rip off along the way?
    The trouble I have with campfires are the folks that carry a bottle in one hand and a Bible in the other.
    You never know which one is talking.

  7. #67
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    Carl: As has been pointed out, if someone is adequately prepared, thinks ahead, brings the necessary gear and equipment, as well as current maps and guidebooks, and if someone gives some thought early in the day to where they'll likely find themselves at day's end......well if they do this, they don't have to worry about being tossed out into the snow because they won't end up at the Huts at dusk sniveling and begging for a place to stay. The situation you described is simply not genuine.....the AMC people don't toss people into the snow. They may not let someone in for free, as is their right, but you're imputing a callousness to them that is both unfair and untrue.

  8. #68
    Super Moderator Ender's Avatar
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    It's a very simple equation folks... if you get to a hut and one of the two thru-hiker slots is open, and they have work for you, you get to stay for free. Otherwise, expect to pay for your stay or plan to move on to the next campsite/shelter or below treeline. Whatever happens, you should be prepared to camp out and not freeze to death. It's your responsibility.
    Don't take anything I say seriously... I certainly don't.

  9. #69
    Registered User Carl in FL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Tarlin View Post
    The situation you described is simply not genuine.....the AMC people don't toss people into the snow. They may not let someone in for free, as is their right, but you're imputing a callousness to them that is both unfair and untrue.
    The situation I described is that they won't (and don't) toss people (out) into the snow, but that they probably won't feed you for free.

  10. #70
    AT 4000+, LT, FHT, ALT Blissful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    It's a very simple equation folks... if you get to a hut and one of the two thru-hiker slots is open, and they have work for you, you get to stay for free. Otherwise, expect to pay for your stay or plan to move on to the next campsite/shelter or below treeline. Whatever happens, you should be prepared to camp out and not freeze to death. It's your responsibility.
    Bingo. The AMC does not owe a hiker their huts and space. You need to be responsible. If you want a place to stay above treeline and will work for it, plan accordingly. If not, pay up or get out a map and check for other sites to stay.







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  11. #71
    Registered User weary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgposey View Post
    ....I maybe should mention that I'm a thru-hiker, and I don't necessarily plan to be one of the first two hikers to arrive to get work-for-stay, and I'm certainly not willing to pay the ridiculously high fees.
    What do you think should be a fair fee for a comfortable bed in a rustic lodge, open only seasonally, and two pretty good AYCE meals, much of which had to be backpacked into a famous and beautiful high mountain area, mostly many steep miles from the nearest road?

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by weary View Post
    What do you think should be a fair fee for a comfortable bed in a rustic lodge, open only seasonally, and two pretty good AYCE meals, much of which had to be backpacked into a famous and beautiful high mountain area, mostly many steep miles from the nearest road?
    We slept on the floor in sleeping bags, which was fine. I didn't expect to get a bed. The expected trade was work for stay, in exchange for meals and a spot on the floor. Perfectly fine with that. I washed plenty of dishes, and always asked if there was more that needed to be done afterward.

  13. #73
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    Only problem in one recent post above was the phrase "expected trade".

    And that's what this thread is all about.

    Hikers expect too much, and take too much for granted, in the White Mountains and elsewhere. The chance for a work-for-stay, food, or free/discount lodging is NOT written in stone anywhere; the problem, as we have seen, is when hikers consider their needs and wants above all else; they allow that they're willing to work for this, but don't consider the fact that this situation does not always exist. In short, what they "expect" to get is not always available; the simplest way for hikers in the Whites to prepare themselves for disappointment is to be happy when this "trade" of services works out for them, but not to expect it. "Expect" in too many circumstances has come to mean "taken for granted" and that's wrong.

  14. #74
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    For a description of what a Madison Spring hut croo does in an emergency you can read to sad story of Don Barr. In an August storm, one was rescued and one died. In my opinion, thru-hikers should measure their gear in the White Mts against how it'll work in conditions like this: http://www.ohcroo.com/pdf/spring2001.pdf

    I think this has also been published as a chapter of "Not without peril" http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/193...M5PEZ3MHMRQS44

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Tarlin View Post
    Only problem in one recent post above was the phrase "expected trade".

    And that's what this thread is all about.

    Hikers expect too much, and take too much for granted, in the White Mountains and elsewhere. The chance for a work-for-stay, food, or free/discount lodging is NOT written in stone anywhere; the problem, as we have seen, is when hikers consider their needs and wants above all else; they allow that they're willing to work for this, but don't consider the fact that this situation does not always exist. In short, what they "expect" to get is not always available; the simplest way for hikers in the Whites to prepare themselves for disappointment is to be happy when this "trade" of services works out for them, but not to expect it. "Expect" in too many circumstances has come to mean "taken for granted" and that's wrong.
    Not really what I meant. I didn't feel entitled to anything, and would have tented if I had to. What I meant by expected, was that is the general idea of a "trade", if spots are available. I would have moved on without a problem if they said no room was available.

  16. #76
    Always keep your head on a swivel
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Tarlin View Post
    the simplest way for hikers in the Whites to prepare themselves for disappointment is to be happy when this "trade" of services works out for them, but not to expect it. "Expect" in too many circumstances has come to mean "taken for granted" and that's wrong.
    I've always kept relatively low expectations (note: NOT low standards! haha) for everything...I'm generally more happy. It's nice to be suprised by things that I may have "taken for granted" if they do in fact happen to occur. But if they do not happen...I'm no worse off!

  17. #77
    AT 4000+, LT, FHT, ALT Blissful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingturtle View Post
    I've always kept relatively low expectations (note: NOT low standards! haha) for everything...I'm generally more happy. It's nice to be suprised by things that I may have "taken for granted" if they do in fact happen to occur. But if they do not happen...I'm no worse off!
    Good attitude to go with on the trail. The those unexpected surprises mean a lot more too, and you are more grateful for them and people in general. I have more situations happen like that then I can count. Amazing stuff







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  18. #78
    trash, hiker the goat's Avatar
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    as jack said, just bring maps. there are tons of trails off the ridgelines that go down to the treeline.

    hell, if the weather is nice, there is nothing more beautiful than cowboy camping above treeline in the whites. i've done it a couple of times near lake of the clouds, even turned down a work-for-stay to do it once.
    "The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive." -TJ

  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by the goat View Post
    as jack said, just bring maps. there are tons of trails off the ridgelines that go down to the treeline.

    hell, if the weather is nice, there is nothing more beautiful than cowboy camping above treeline in the whites. i've done it a couple of times near lake of the clouds, even turned down a work-for-stay to do it once.
    Just watch out for ridgerunners. Its illegal to camp anywhere above treeline in the whites.f yu're near madison, you can go to valey way or osgood, as well as the rmc sites.

  20. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by hikerboy57 View Post
    Just watch out for ridgerunners. Its illegal to camp anywhere above treeline in the whites.f yu're near madison, you can go to valey way or osgood, as well as the rmc sites.
    When it was legal, I tented above treeline there a couple of times. This was not a good idea at all. The winds can be extremely nasty even in summer, and the weather can change quickly. Better to drop dow as far as needed for safety. Oddly, in winter, with four season tents, I did rather better.
    "It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how." ---Dr. Seuss

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