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Thread: Ethics

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    Default Ethics

    Is it ethical to shop at a store, size things up and then look on the internet to see if you can find a cheaper price?



    Is it ethical to edit someone’s post, not because it is obscene, but just for the fact that you personally disagree with it?

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    1.Ethical? It's the smart thing to do.
    2.If it's your website you can do anything you damn well please.

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    Default word usage

    I'm not sure how your two questions relate, but I'll answer both. Question one is simple. Nothing is wrong with trying to find the cheapest price for gear or anything else you want to purchase. At the outfitters I work at we honor prices of other stores. All good stores will.

    Question two is a totally different topic and I suspect the real point of this thread. I believe ethical isn't the proper word choice. Ethics has nothing to do with somebody editing your post if they in fact own the site on which it is you are referring. Something tells me that there is much more to this question/story that we aren't hearing. So what is it that wingnut did this time ?
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    Ethical? It's a fact of modern life that most people buy big items on the internet, because that's where the best prices are. If a retailer gets you in the store to "try on" a big dollar item and you buy some small stuff while you're there, they should count themselves lucky.

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    It's cool to shop around, although i did feel bad when i went to EMS to try the Vapor trail pack on, and I had talked to the sales guy for about an hour about hiking, we exchanged email so we could go for a few hikes before i leave, and then i had to tell him that i was gonna buy it online cause i saw it cheaper, i felt kinda bad that i had kept him for so long, but we still talk and have plans to hiek this spring around CT.
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    I'd say it depends on the store and how much you pick someones brain/store for info. My local outfitter has a good competent staff that looks out for me. I'd feel bad about asking them a bunch of questions and trying out the gear for size at their location only to buy online to save a small percentage. Nothing wrong with smart shopping on your own though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmantra
    Is it ethical to shop at a store, size things up and then look on the internet to see if you can find a cheaper price?



    Is it ethical to edit someone’s post, not because it is obscene, but just for the fact that you personally disagree with it?
    Ethics can be personal ethics or group ethics, the two are not the same. Example: my personal work ethic is higher than the unit I work for requires.

    So if a person owns a website and it is his personal philosophy to edit posts he disagrees with, stop going there, vote with your feet. My personal ethics against censorship means I very rarely ever do it here.

    As to the other, it isn't unethical, but I sometimes will pay a little extra to have something when I look at it in the store because I feel I have gotten some value from the store beyond the price of the object. Think of it this way: do you tip a waiter at a restaurant even though you have paid for your food bill? A good outfitter to me is a thing to be valued.
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    "Is it ethical to shop at a store, size things up and then look on the internet to see if you can find a cheaper price?"

    Or perhaps just go to Walmart?

    Rick B

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmantra
    Is it ethical to shop at a store, size things up and then look on the internet to see if you can find a cheaper price?



    Is it ethical to edit someone’s post, not because it is obscene, but just for the fact that you personally disagree with it?
    Are you getting good advice from your local retailer, or do you place a value in any of their particular business practices, or does their presence in your community compel you in any other qualitative way? Are their prices fair? Do the prices fairly reflect the added costs of the qualitative factors that you've identified as valuable? If not, then yes shop price.

    As far as the internet goes, hey welcome to 2005. Most of the ambitious well-run outfitters have internet presence these days, so they're all out there competing in the same market for your dollar anyway.

    One more word about buying locally: I refuse to get my face ripped off by the mom and pops who overprice just because they think they can.. for example, camping fuel is almost 200% more expensive at the local mom/ pop than it is at walmart. ($7 vs $2.50) . There's no way Walmart's outsourcing, lower wages, and market power add up to this price differential. The fact is, Walmart out-innovates and out hustles the mom and pops every day of the week. They price their stuff as low as possible. The mom/pops price as high as possible. It's two different worlds, two different business models. C

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    If your conscience really bugs you, shop on the internet exclusively. Just make sure the internet seller has an exchange policy in case you order a size too large or small.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Rock
    Ethics can be personal ethics or group ethics, the two are not the same. Example: my personal work ethic is higher than the unit I work for requires.

    So if a person owns a website and it is his personal philosophy to edit posts he disagrees with, stop going there, vote with your feet. My personal ethics against censorship means I very rarely ever do it here.

    As to the other, it isn't unethical, but I sometimes will pay a little extra to have something when I look at it in the store because I feel I have gotten some value from the store beyond the price of the object. Think of it this way: do you tip a waiter at a restaurant even though you have paid for your food bill? A good outfitter to me is a thing to be valued.
    I agree with the good sergeant. And it goes beyond a matter of ethics. Local stores with good staff are a thing to be prized. They won't survive if folks just pick their brains and buy elsewhere.

    I tend to be a scrounge when it comes to money matters, in part because we live on a fairly tight budget. But I do try to pay for value received, even when I can get away with not doing so.

    Weary

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    I’m not using names, but this all came about when I posted a reply to somebody’s question on where to shop for gear. My suggestion was edited and I got a PM saying that my statement was unethical. Maybe in some peoples view, maybe not. However If you didn't like my post say so in the forum start a new thread, express your ideas, send a pm ask me to change it. I guess if you own the site you can do as you please, but to preach ethics as you edit my words to fit your own little world of delusion is childlike.

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    Default Ethics and dead philosophers

    Quote Originally Posted by madmantra
    Is it ethical to shop at a store, size things up and then look on the internet to see if you can find a cheaper price?



    Is it ethical to edit someone’s post, not because it is obscene, but just for the fact that you personally disagree with it?
    You can probably get a better more succinct answer from living Trail Poets like L. Wolf but dead philosophers provide some food for thought.

    E. Kant provides some guidance to most perceived ethical dilemmas.

    Kant introduces two concepts called categorical imperitives The first is:

    “Act only on that maxim by which you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law.”

    In the instant case of shopping buying elsewhere, you have to ask "What if everyone did it?" If you think about it, you are reminded of the arguments put forward by the Utilitarians that stressed the greatest good (happiness) for the greatest number. Is it good for all if everyone shops locally and then buys somewhere else? Could the savings be put to better use for the greater good (happiness)?

    The second is:

    “So act as to treat humanity, whether in thine own person or in that of any other, in every case as an end in itself, never as a means only.”

    Applied to the shopping/buying question, on the surface it appears that intentionally using the store persons to narrow down the choice to be made somewhere else is using someone as a means and not an end. That seems on the surface not to pass the ethical test set out by Kant.

    As to editing postings, there is the Kant frame work. What if everyone edited another posting and is editing treating another person as an end or a means (for futhering another view)?

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  14. #14

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    I have no problems whatsoever paying more to keep the local outfitter open. They are there for me when I need them, they employ local folks, and help with the local tax base. I do buy off the web, but it is for stuff that I simply can't get locally. If they don't carry what I want, I tell them, and give them the first shot at my $. Northern Virginia has a pretty vibrant economy and I want to keep it that way with lots of small speciality stores and services. I don't want to live where walmart is the only game in town.

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmantra
    ... to preach ethics as you edit my words to fit your own little world of delusion is childlike.
    Tsk, tsk.

    Besides, how do you know it's not a big world of delusion?!!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by madmantra
    I’m not using names, but this all came about when I posted a reply to somebody’s question on where to shop for gear. My suggestion was edited and I got a PM saying that my statement was unethical. Maybe in some peoples view, maybe not. However If you didn't like my post say so in the forum start a new thread, express your ideas, send a pm ask me to change it. I guess if you own the site you can do as you please, but to preach ethics as you edit my words to fit your own little world of delusion is childlike.
    Child_ISH...the word you're looking for is childish not childlike. Theres' not a thing wrong with being childlike. It is the original state of grace we were all born into (most of us), a state of innocence, wonder, and presumption of safety. i hope to get back there myself one day. C

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    I forgot to say it wans't this forum, it was another. Kant? I think we need to look to Ann Rand for this one.

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    Default kinda lives up to his name

    madmantra-“Is it ethical to shop at a store, size things up and then look on the internet to see if you can find a cheaper price?
    Is it ethical to edit someone’s post, not because it is obscene, but just for the fact that you personally disagree with it?
    Maybe the question should be: “Is it ethical to start a thread that is a personal rant disguised as a legitimate question? Sounds kind of childish to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmantra
    I forgot to say it wans't this forum, it was another. Kant? I think we need to look to Ann Rand for this one.
    Kant and Rand aren't as far aprt on this as it might seem. To both, enlightened self-interest and collective good are one and the same. They do go about things a little differently though. Rands prism of selfishness has a lot of merit, especially as it relates to human nature. But where both falls short -our natures and Rands philosophy- we must look to Kant and others for guidance. C

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    •Completed A.T. Section Hike GA to ME 1996 thru 2003 •Donating Member Skyline's Avatar
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    I always give the local outfitter(s) first shot at my dollar. They earn it, too.

    Only if they don't carry what I want, and for whatever reason I can't wait for them to special-order it (if they can), will I buy off the internet.

    Taking up a lot of an outfitter staff's time to learn about gear, or getting a pack or boots fitted, or assembling a tent, or crawling in a sleeping bag--and then buying the very same product elsewhere to save twenty bucks--is extremely unethical IMHO. If you want to buy off the internet go ahead and do so but don't waste the outfitter's time.

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