Overnight hikers in SNP shelters?

[seabrookhiker]

I haven't used a Shenandoah hut in over a decade, but I would like to do a one or two night AT hike in SNP and I would like to use the huts. My reading indicates that they are reserved for the use of long distance hikers, where long distance is more than three nights out, IIRC.

Do the rangers care? Is it an issue? I'm planning to go out over the holiday weekend in October, so there will be more hikers than on other October weekends, but not much in the way of thruhikers.

[jlb2012]

for the most part no-one cares and I have always treated it as first come first served regardless of how many nights they are out - wrt the rangers be sure to have a free backcountry permit on you that mentions the hut

[seabrookhiker]

Excellent, thanks. I always carry a permit.

[Pedaling Fool]

...My reading indicates that they are reserved for the use of long distance hikers, where long distance is more than three nights out, IIRC.

What were you reading? I've never seen anything that indicated those shelters were for thru/long-distance hikers. No one has priority on shelters other than first-come-first-served, period.

[seabrookhiker]

It's on the back of the PATC maps. Actually I just checked one from 2000 and it said so as well. So I guess it's long-standing but mostly ignored.

[4eyedbuzzard]

What were you reading? I've never seen anything that indicated those shelters were for thru/long-distance hikers. No one has priority on shelters other than first-come-first-served, period.

Ditto. Other than shelters in GSMNP and the AMC huts in the Whites, I've never heard of any AT shelters being anything other than first-come first-serve. The only other thing I've ever been aware of is that groups such as BSA, schools, etc shouldn't monopolize shelters - they aren't group campsites. Anyone hiking should always be carrying suitable shelter an not have to rely on shelters / lean-tos. That all said, it used to be that in a storm, the common ideal was that there was always room for one more. I don't think that holds true anymore, especially during the peak thru-hiker season in the south.

[seabrookhiker]

Shoot, what I'm finding among thruhikers now is they claim the shelter is filled when it's below stated capacity. Aggravating. When I tell them there's always room for one more during bad weather, they give me the stink eye.

[Pedaling Fool]

It's on the back of the PATC maps. Actually I just checked one from 2000 and it said so as well. So I guess it's long-standing but mostly ignored.

Sure enough, I just checked mine and that's what it says. I'm speechless...I'm going to count to 10 then read it again -- I'm slow that way

[jlo]

Yeah, it's first come first serve and rangers don't care at all about that kind of stuff. I think they only care if people stay at one shelter for more than a couple nights and are "living" there And be sure you've got the backcountry permit at the entrance stations on the trail.

Just be considerate of other hikers and have a tent/hammock just in case the shelters are full. Otherwise, it's not big deal.

[seabrookhiker]

It's hard to find a legal camping spot near the AT in SNP, IIRC. I do always carry shelter.

[Pedaling Fool]

Shoot, what I'm finding among thruhikers now is they claim the shelter is filled when it's below stated capacity. Aggravating. When I tell them there's always room for one more during bad weather, they give me the stink eye.

You do see that attitude quite a bit out there, all I can say is this http://www.appalachiantrail.org/hiki...mping-shelters, but it is interesting what the PATC has on the back of their maps. I'm don't know what to say to that. I wonder if they even know it's on the map? If so is that their policy that thru-hikers have priority. The way it's worded it doesn't come out and say that, but it is does serve to muddy the policy of first come, first served.

[WingedMonkey]

The same wording is on the SNP web site, not so much thru-hikers but:

12) Camping is permitted in specific backcountry facilities.

The Potomac Appalachian Trail Club (PATC) maintains a system of backcountry huts and cabins in Shenandoah National Park. Huts are three-sided structures located along the Appalachian Trail and for use by long-term hikers (who are out for three consecutive nights or more). Backcountry camping permits are required for camping in huts, and all park backcountry camping regulations apply. Permits are not required for cabins, which are reserved in advance from PATC.

http://www.nps.gov/shen/planyourvisit/campbc_regs.htm

[Pedaling Fool]

This is the exact wording on the map I got:

"The PATC operates and maintains seven, three-sided HUTS along the Appalachian Trail within the SNP. The hut system is intended to provide shelter for long-term hikers (at least three nights of backcountry camping) and specifically AT long distance "thru-hikers"."

[Pedaling Fool]

But regardless if they use the term "thur-hiker" or not, they're taking a simple first come, first served policy and just screwing it up. There's much wisdom in the KISS method; KISS maybe a cliche, but still very applicable and smart policy.

[seabrookhiker]

FWIW: There were two or three thruhikers at the shelter. They were outnumbered by weekenders, some of whom set up a large dome tent inside the shelter. On a night when it wasn't raining or cold or buggy. I set up my tent well away.

[BadAndy]

What were you reading? I've never seen anything that indicated those shelters were for thru/long-distance hikers. No one has priority on shelters other than first-come-first-served, period.

It's actually posted on the PATC signs at the huts as well. I chuckled when I read them during my first trip to the park just a few weeks ago. FWIW when we talked to the ranger when getting the backcountry permit he asked about out itinerary were well aware that we were only going to be out for 2 nights and that we were planning on stopping at the huts. Didn't say a word other that "have a great trip"

[moldy]

I thru hiked the entire park and they are not to be found. As far as trail club rules, they are not rules. Trail clubs like PATC can put up all the signs they want. They just don't get to make rules. Appalachian Trail shelters are first come-first served and every hiker has as much right to stay there as any other hiker. Rich and powerful trail clubs like PATC at one time spent time and energy taking good care of the trail. Now they take good care of themselves. They generate millions of dollars renting out cabins to there rich friends in DC. They have even taken over hiker shelters to expand the business. They have a huge number of rental properties, they pay no taxes and they sit on National Park land. They pressure the Park Service to minimize the number of shelters so they can have a better rental business. The National Parks are for all the people not just the rich.

[restless]

I thru hiked the entire park and they are not to be found. As far as trail club rules, they are not rules. Trail clubs like PATC can put up all the signs they want. They just don't get to make rules. Appalachian Trail shelters are first come-first served and every hiker has as much right to stay there as any other hiker. Rich and powerful trail clubs like PATC at one time spent time and energy taking good care of the trail. Now they take good care of themselves. They generate millions of dollars renting out cabins to there rich friends in DC. They have even taken over hiker shelters to expand the business. They have a huge number of rental properties, they pay no taxes and they sit on National Park land. They pressure the Park Service to minimize the number of shelters so they can have a better rental business. The National Parks are for all the people not just the rich.

Couple of things..first of all rangers are in the backcountry, it just so happens that you didn't see one. With 500 miles of trail, 105 miles of Skyline Drive and numerous boundary access to monitor, they can't be everywhere at once. But they are there. You are correct in that shelters are first come first served, unlike the Smokies where one must have reservations. Regarding the PATC, the shelters they have "taken over" were shelters that were either not designed for overnight use, or shelters from where the AT might have been relocated. Hikers don't need shelters every five miles, but a maintaining club like PATC DOES have need for access to tools to perform trail maintenance. The cabins that they rent out that are located on NPS lands, (which there are very few, many of their cabins are on private land) are historical structurs from a by gone era from before there was a Shenandoah NP. If PATC did not include these in their rentals, they would end up being torn down, like most other historical structures in the park. PATC does a fine job at helping the park service fulfill its mission, in that they maintain many miles of trail including the AT. The Park Service doen't have the resources to perform all that maintenance so they have to rely on volunteers and volunteer organizations.

[CornerCreek27]

Don't worry about it. I lived yards from the AT in Loft Mt. SNP for a summer and directed many through and weekend hikers to shelters and other unmarked camping sites. I never heard of any problems had never personally experienced any.

I believe that most any sleeping spot in the woods goes on a first-come first-serve basis.

[joshuasdad]

Rich and powerful trail clubs like PATC at one time spent time and energy taking good care of the trail. Now they take good care of themselves. They generate millions of dollars renting out cabins to there rich friends in DC.

I have hiked all but 31 miles of PATC territory (South SNP to Pine Grove Furnace, PA) in the past two and a half months, and very much appreciate the time and energy PATC trail maintainers have spent on the trail. The weekend after the big snows in PA, I saw several maintainers out there, clearing dozens (or perhaps hundreds) of blowdowns.

Thank you restless et al.