The prejudice we face.

[PackOnerBacker Mel]

I just joined this website. I am a 52 year old woman. I grew up backpacking in Ky. in the Red River Gorge, but I have never gone alone. I had to quit backpacking 20 years ago due to a bad mountain bike accident. Although experienced Way back then, I know there is a lot to learn now getting back into it. So no I would not attempt to backpack in January. Why would I? When I could start in March Do the AT alone? Sure, but seems like it would be a lot more fun with someone else.
I am hoping to find a group or females that would help me get prepared to do the AT and possibly go with them. Not sure how to go about that yet, so any advice would be appreciated.
I hike here in the Atlanta area alone and am very street smart when coming in contact with males on the trails and go a lot of places most women wouldn't go. I never let a male get a certain distance from me. So I never go hiking without some kind of protection and if a male tried to do anything to me...it would be his last time.. To The Moon!! LOL
Which brings me to my question for everyone: What kind of protection would you bring with you to hike the AT? I would think that gender shouldn't matter, that everyone would want to be prepared whether alone or not to protect themselves from Creeps. As far as the other dangers on the trail I would think that those can be prepared for to a point, but like Helen Keller stated "Life is either a daring adventure or nothing". Sometimes you just have to go for it and pray whether you are a man or a woman, I dont think it should matter. We all take chances everyday. Hope I get some feedback Geez, this sure is a long real first post.

[Marta]

Thanks Fat Man!!! I was not going to respond to ".... how dare I!!!", but you have said things we both should have originaly. I showed this thread to my 45 year old hiking, fishing, biking, girl scout leader wife, and she feels the same. She would never go out alone [and never did without a companion, male or female]. I, like fat man, am concerned with our daughters safety in this ever increaseingly nasty world.

What you see as protecting your women, I see as treating women as helpless beings who are unsafe in the big, bad world without the protection of a self-appointed superior being. I'm not impressed that your wife agrees with you--that just means she has drunk the "I'm so helpless" Koolaid. Sorry to be rude, but I completely and totally disagree with you. I don't accept those sorts of restrictions for myself, and I urge other women to acquire the skills they need to be independent beings. Which includes the skills for solo hiking and backpacking. People--men and women--can preach the "you need protection" crap all they want, but you don't have to listen.

[Marta]

Springer isn't the issue. Snow in GA isn't usually a safety issue. Plenty of roads to bail if need be. And in the blizzard of 93 hikers were "rescued" from Springer (even if they didn't want to be).The issue is what happens to these inexperienced hikers when they hit the GSMNP. Those conditions can be markedly different from Springer.

My observation, after a series of Jan. 1 trips to Springer is that the novices who would endanger themselves in the Smokies don't make it that far, so it's not an issue.

[10-K]

This is about the bleakest thing I have ever read here on Whiteblaze. I could go on a long rant about the nanny state, fear-induced retardation, and all else, but I won't. Suffice it to say these trail organizations are stump wrong.

If I could only hike with other people I'd put my gear on ebay and find another hobby.

[Amanita]

Okay, so having read FatMan's response I think I have a better understanding of his original post. I did not intend for this to explode the way it has. I provided the entire quote of his original post, and a link to the thread it was in, so that people (hopefully!) wouldn't take it out of context. I bolded the section that I found offensive because it's the part I wanted to discuss in the ladies forum.

I understand that many people believe that women are more at risk to be victims of violent crime than men. That is true, in a statistical sense. But as one previous poster pointed out, many of those crimes come from men she already knows. Now to address crimes from men she doesn't know.

"A young female hiking alone where she does not have the protections of a group is simply asking for trouble IMO."

To me this quote is glaringly similar to some of the things I have heard from people claiming a girl who wears a short skirt is "asking to be raped." I know that was not the original intention, but it still has the ring of shifting the blame off the criminal on to the victim.

Now it is a fact of our society that women should be prepared and aware in order to protect themselves if something were to happen. But these preparations are not a matter of carrying a gun, mace, a tazer, or a knife for protection. In any situation where you truly need these things they are probably not available, and the training to use them is far more extensive than using your own lungs and limbs. "Knowledge weighs nothing, and you can bring it anywhere."

As a female, I refuse to live my life in total fear of such a small percentage of the male population, who might want to victimize me. When it happens, I deal with it. I make my wishes clear, with physical force if necessary. It is amazing how even a calm clear voice can sometimes deflect these situations. And it has happened to me, but in a vastly different setting than on the trail.

I have walked alone in the city at night, and I feel far more safe hitching a ride into town than doing that. Every day on the AT has it's own inherent risks, but so does every day in civilization. And I don't think the "extra" risk of a female on the trail is any more than anywhere else. As one person pointed out, this is not Saudi Arabia, and I don't need a male escort just to leave the house.

I firmly believe that solo female hikers are safe on the trail (and in trail towns). And I've put my money (and my life) where my mouth is by hiking alone.

[Pedaling Fool]

I don't think it was typical WB bull$#!7. I think the discussion had been political from the word go. AFAIK, WB is a place to discuss hiking and the outdoors, not leftists policies based on self-imposed victimization.

I'm not sure what you're saying in this post, but I believe you're saying that anyone that understands the frustration on the part of women when such comments are made like, "You really should have a man with you...". Than that person is a leftist. I believe most here just sees and understands the frustration, it has nothing to do with politics; I know it can turn political, but really haven't seen it here.

This is just one of those issues, not just in the states, that's been going on for ages. It's time to change that attitude, like we have already with so many other things.



BTW, I was reading about marathons today and just by chance came across this http://www.thelizlibrary.org/undelete/WHM/WHM07.html There's more history than politics in this thread.


Excerpts from the link:

In 1966 (six years before the official date of women's participation in the race) Roberta Bengay (Roberta Gibb Welch) hid in the bushes and then joined the runners just after take-off to get into the race. She ran the Boston Marathon in 3:12.2 and beat two-thirds of the men. Race officials, however, denied a woman had run the race. "I know of no girl who ran in the Boston Marathon. I do know of a girl who is supposed to have run on the same roads as the marathon route today. But that's not the same."

The very next year, Katherine Switzer was refused permission to enter the Boston Marathon, but got a number in 1967 as K. Switzer. While racing she was recognized as a girl and officials chased her trying to pull off her number. (There's a famous photo of the attempts to remove her number which were foiled by male runners around her, as well as her speed.) Switzer finished the race and most certainly WAS the first woman to run the race under an official number. But Switzer paid a great price for her audacity. She was a member of the Syracuse University track team and was promptly suspended from the Amateur Athletic Union for "running without a chaperon!"

[swamprat]

I would be delighted if my very fit 21 year old daughter decided to make a solo through hike in the usual season. Lacking winter experience, I would strongly discourage her from a January start. My 19 year old son has some winter experience, and I would not encourage him at this point either. Not a matter of sex, just experince in a harsh conditions.

This is a Completely unbiased opinion related to the male or female issue. However, making this decision as a 51 yr old male, fairly new to long distance hiking , having extensive outdoor experience, with a strong survival instinct, and a background having to do with 30 yrs of law enforcement, NO WAY would I try it. I do not believe I am prepared for it. Could I make it, sure, baring any misfortune. As far as someone stated, that worse case where she calls and says she is cold and tired, come and get me. Hypothermia can set in way before she is picked up. Doesnt have anything to do with being male or female, isn't sexest, not trying to keep females from hiking, just want people to make smart decisions. A "person" (how's that for being politically correct), attempting a solo thru beginning in January, that has no experience is asking for troubles.

[takethisbread]

all this politically correct bull.


Young women can hike just as well or better than men, no question in many cases. the PC police jumping on a guy bc he worries about young ladies safety out there is silly. typical in our culture i guess. there is a lot of young, horny and high young men out there on the trail. i would worry if my daughter were among them. i would worry if my daughter were in the GSMNP in January. I would worry if anyone i loved were in there in January. Men hold young women in high esteem. There is nothing wrong with that. we want to see women and children suffer less than others. it is not akin to blaming a rape on the victim.

[Tipi Walter]

all this politically correct bull.


Young women can hike just as well or better than men, no question in many cases. the PC police jumping on a guy bc he worries about young ladies safety out there is silly. typical in our culture i guess. there is a lot of young, horny and high young men out there on the trail. i would worry if my daughter were among them. i would worry if my daughter were in the GSMNP in January. I would worry if anyone i loved were in there in January. Men hold young women in high esteem. There is nothing wrong with that. we want to see women and children suffer less than others. it is not akin to blaming a rape on the victim.

So, the whole point of being a parent is to worry?? When does it end? Maybe our worries are our own problem, and have nothing to do with their lives in the least. I was raised by two professional Worriers. After I turned 18 they worried. After I turned 21 they worried. Now, upon reflection, I see all their worry as a sort of selfish attachment, a couple degrees away from Control.

[max patch]

all this politically correct bull.

the PC police jumping on a guy bc he worries about young ladies safety out there is silly.

Exactly...

[aaronthebugbuffet]

So, the whole point of being a parent is to worry?? When does it end? Maybe our worries are our own problem, and have nothing to do with their lives in the least. I was raised by two professional Worriers. After I turned 18 they worried. After I turned 21 they worried. Now, upon reflection, I see all their worry as a sort of selfish attachment, a couple degrees away from Control.

Awesome post!

[4eyedbuzzard]

So, the whole point of being a parent is to worry?? When does it end? Maybe our worries are our own problem, and have nothing to do with their lives in the least. I was raised by two professional Worriers. After I turned 18 they worried. After I turned 21 they worried. Now, upon reflection, I see all their worry as a sort of selfish attachment, a couple degrees away from Control.

How many kids do you have?

[jesse]

Women alone in isolated areas(anywhere) are at risk. And yes, this risk is greater for girls, than for guys. During thru hiking season the risk is reduced, because solo hikers are not isolated. The AT in Georgia is isolated in January.

Just because being isolated on the trail. is less risky, than being isolated in most cities, it is still an unacceptable risk.

Gary Hilton murdered three women who were alone, and isolated.

[Toli]

Okay, so having read FatMan's response I think I have a better understanding of his original post. I did not intend for this to explode the way it has. I provided the entire quote of his original post, and a link to the thread it was in, so that people (hopefully!) wouldn't take it out of context. I bolded the section that I found offensive because it's the part I wanted to discuss in the ladies forum.

I understand that many people believe that women are more at risk to be victims of violent crime than men. That is true, in a statistical sense. But as one previous poster pointed out, many of those crimes come from men she already knows. Now to address crimes from men she doesn't know.

"A young female hiking alone where she does not have the protections of a group is simply asking for trouble IMO."

To me this quote is glaringly similar to some of the things I have heard from people claiming a girl who wears a short skirt is "asking to be raped." I know that was not the original intention, but it still has the ring of shifting the blame off the criminal on to the victim.

Now it is a fact of our society that women should be prepared and aware in order to protect themselves if something were to happen. But these preparations are not a matter of carrying a gun, mace, a tazer, or a knife for protection. In any situation where you truly need these things they are probably not available, and the training to use them is far more extensive than using your own lungs and limbs. "Knowledge weighs nothing, and you can bring it anywhere."

As a female, I refuse to live my life in total fear of such a small percentage of the male population, who might want to victimize me. When it happens, I deal with it. I make my wishes clear, with physical force if necessary. It is amazing how even a calm clear voice can sometimes deflect these situations. And it has happened to me, but in a vastly different setting than on the trail.

I have walked alone in the city at night, and I feel far more safe hitching a ride into town than doing that. Every day on the AT has it's own inherent risks, but so does every day in civilization. And I don't think the "extra" risk of a female on the trail is any more than anywhere else. As one person pointed out, this is not Saudi Arabia, and I don't need a male escort just to leave the house.

I firmly believe that solo female hikers are safe on the trail (and in trail towns). And I've put my money (and my life) where my mouth is by hiking alone.

Its Ironic/Funny/Sad that if the OP does get into trouble, FatMan will prob be the one to help... He's deff "Good People"... I don't think anyone on WB spends more time on the Georgia AT between Springer and Dicks than me or FatMan, and our hounds ... I have been NOBO and SOBO twice in the last 5 weeks, and there were some tough conditions... Wait til January... I'm just sayin'...

[Toli]

If I could only hike with other people I'd put my gear on ebay and find another hobby.

Seriously??? NOW Thats funny...

[Marta]

Women alone in isolated areas(anywhere) are at risk. And yes, this risk is greater for girls, than for guys. During thru hiking season the risk is reduced, because solo hikers are not isolated. The AT in Georgia is isolated in January. Just because being isolated on the trail. is less risky, than being isolated in most cities, it is still an unacceptable risk. Gary Hilton murdered three women who were alone, and isolated.

Actually Gary Hilton also murdered a couple hiking together, the Bryants. So, in order to assure absolute safety lets review what were going to allow women to do... Can they leave the house unescorted? Is that safe? Can they drive alone? Go to the store alone? Walk around the block? Can you assure us complete safety in our own homes? In our own cities? I think not. What about the fact that the most recent murder victim on the AT is male? In other words...men shouldn't hike alone either, or, apparently in pairs. (Please review the murder statistics on the AT and see how many of them are pairs of people.). Only groups of three or more are safe enough.

[Sailor (The other one)]

........................

Sorry, but I've never understood what that means.

[Marta]

So, the whole point of being a parent is to worry?? When does it end? Maybe our worries are our own problem, and have nothing to do with their lives in the least. I was raised by two professional Worriers. After I turned 18 they worried. After I turned 21 they worried. Now, upon reflection, I see all their worry as a sort of selfish attachment, a couple degrees away from Control.

You hit that particular nail right on the head. And, yes, I have three children and a husband. The amazing thing is that the more you try to control another person's behavior, the harder they try to pull away, even to the point of harming themselves. Think Romeo and Juliet. Worrying is the worrier's problem.

[Toli]

<STRONG></STRONG>

Actually Gary Hilton also murdered a couple hiking together, the Bryants. So, in order to assure absolute safety lets review what were going to allow women to do... Can they leave the house unescorted? Is that safe? Can they drive alone? Go to the store alone? Walk around the block? Can you assure us complete safety in our own homes? In our own cities? I think not. What about the fact that the most recent murder victim on the AT is male? In other words...men shouldn't hike alone either, or, apparently in pairs. (Please review the murder statistics on the AT and see how many of them are pairs of people.). Only groups of three or more are safe enough.

<BR><BR><STRONG><EM><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: comic sans ms">Sucks to be ur hubby... But...&nbsp;I hear they are doing awesome things with regards to testicle implants...</SPAN></EM></STRONG>

[Marta]

To expand on this theme...my observation is that the same people who "worry" are the ones who try to control other aspects of their spouse's and offsprings' lives--what they wear, what they eat, how they cut their hair, who their friends are, their work/school choices...