How do I enhance my cold weather sleeping bag and pad?

[DBCFlash]

Was you pad rectangular or tapered? I can see a real problem with gaps if you used a tapered pad with a rectangular bag. I have a BA 15 degree bag with a rectangular BA pad and was toasty warm down to the lower 20's.

[Creek Dancer]

Was you pad rectangular or tapered? I can see a real problem with gaps if you used a tapered pad with a rectangular bag. I have a BA 15 degree bag with a rectangular BA pad and was toasty warm down to the lower 20's.

The bag is mummy shaped, as well as the pad.

[Marta]

I personally don't find the BA pads to be warm enough to sleep on when it gets below about forty at night. I second the idea of getting a thin CCF pad to go between you and the pad in cold weather. It wouldn't take much of a pad. I have a quarter inch pad that I bought years ago to use in hammocks. Something like that could be trimmed to fit inside the sleeve, and would probably be just enough to cut down on the contact between your body and the cold air inside the inflated pad.

My husband is a devotee of the BA pad and sleeping bag systems because they prevent him from rolling off the mat during the night. So we've dealt with this issue for several years.

[Creek Dancer]

I personally don't find the BA pads to be warm enough to sleep on when it gets below about forty at night. I second the idea of getting a thin CCF pad to go between you and the pad in cold weather. It wouldn't take much of a pad. I have a quarter inch pad that I bought years ago to use in hammocks. Something like that could be trimmed to fit inside the sleeve, and would probably be just enough to cut down on the contact between your body and the cold air inside the inflated pad.

My husband is a devotee of the BA pad and sleeping bag systems because they prevent him from rolling off the mat during the night. So we've dealt with this issue for several years.

I think the idea of a using a CCF pad is the way to go. Gossamer Gear sells seconds, which are cheaper, and perfect since I am going to have to cut it anyway.

Hope you are doing well, Marta. I don't know if you remember me, but we met a several years ago at SoRuck, after your SOBO (I think), and again at Trail Days. One of these days I am going on one of Mocs' trips, that is - if he ever plans one that does not require 20 mile days. Those are tough right out of the gate for us weekend warriors.

[DeerPath]

Put an Emergency Blanket between you and the ground. It will reflect your body heat back to you. Weights about 1.7 oz. and is cheap, about $3.00.

[Tom Murphy]

The storm king is a semi-mummy, the Pomer Hoit is a mummy bag. You need to pack stuff in around you to fill up that extra space.

I have the BA Encampment which is a semi-mumy shape and rated for 15 deg F. Due to the large amount of dead air space, it works to about 30 deg F for me. I use it as an overbag to extend my MARMOT Sawtooth to below its rated temp of 15 deg F or as a summer bag when someone hikes with me and bneeds a bag. It has been great as an overbag. With the Sawtooth inside the Encampment and a CCF pad with with the BA insulated aircore pad I have been comfortable at sub zero temps.

So my solution was to buy a true mummy shape bag from a vendor that rates the bags per the EN standard.

[sbhikes]

Choosing better ground can make a difference. Not to solid. In winter you want to pick a spot that would not have to much ice in it. Under a spruce tree or something like that is ideal. Don't remember exactly why, but being an evergreen tree, with shallow roots, that needs to drink all year round, it does something to keep it drier and warmer underneath. I think the main thing is that the branches keep the heat from radiating to the sky at night, but there is a little more to it also. I think it has to do with the water going up during the day, warming up, and then going back down at night, so heat from the sun is stored in the ground, and so kept a little warmer than the surroundings. Also, snow is captured and shed by the branches, so the ground doesn't have to melt the snow.

Interesting. I always could feel that it was warmer to sleep under a tree but never quite understood all the reasons why. Where I usually hike the trees are usually oaks, not evergreens, but maybe they do similar things.

[B-Rabbit]

I just purchased a BA insulated pad and used it for the first time deer hunting. The temps dropped down to around 30 degrees and I was cold! I never had that problem before when I was using the same sleeping bag on the cheap wal-mart blue pad. This is concerning to me because I bought this pad for my thru hike this spring. Wondering if I made a mistake with the BA? Everyone else seemed to rave about them.

[skinewmexico]

Oops-double post

[skinewmexico]

Which BA pad did you buy? Some of them are uninsulated. And most air mattresses, unless you're using and Exped Downmat or Stephenson Warmlite, start needing some CCF pad help around freezing. I have used my POE Ether Thermo 6 down into the low 20s with no issues, but not on snow.

[Marta]

Of course I remember you! I hope you can make it to the SoRuck is winter. In the meantime, Happy Hiking! And don't let Mocs wear you to a frazzle.

[Creek Dancer]

Of course I remember you! I hope you can make it to the SoRuck is winter. In the meantime, Happy Hiking! And don't let Mocs wear you to a frazzle.

Nice that you remembered me.

I haven't been to SoRuck since the time I met you. I just checked out the website and I am definately interested in going this year! Maybe I will see you there.

[Wise Old Owl]

Put an Emergency Blanket between you and the ground. It will reflect your body heat back to you. Weights about 1.7 oz. and is cheap, about $3.00.

noisy and un productive. - tried it. - it sucked.

[Tinker]

Sure, concrete transfers heat well, but it's not the problem given the reasonably mild temps we've had on the east coast. If the cold seeps in from concrete at 30 degrees, it's going to pour in when you get down to 5 or 10. You need more insulation. Don't go out on a really cold night without more insulation because of questionable advice you get here. Get the dual core pad, or get a thin foam pad and put it on top of your air pad in the sleeve. If the cheap blue Walmart pad won't fit you can buy thinner (down to 1/8th inch thickness) pads online. Strap the pad on top of your pack. You won't notice the bulk.

or you can use the extra pad as a "liner" inside of your backpack if it doesn't have a divider. I have a frameless pack and use a blue foam pad this way (basically, it's the "frame" and makes a nice doormat under my hammock or a sit pad while cooking) even though I don't need it for camping (my sleeping bag goes around my hammock, insulating me top and bottom).
And, yes, use the foam pad on top. It makes little difference in warmth when used on the bottom (though it is a good way to minimize punctures when used underneath).

[DBT fan]

I have a BA 40 degree bad and a BA dual core pad which sleeps great.......until the temp falls below about 45 degrees. Even with a long sleeve shirt and log john bottoms, a fleece cap and gloves I still get cold. The problem is not the pad but the backless bag. When will BA wise up and insulate the bag like everyone else does? I love the pad but will never buy another backless BA bag again.

[Creek Dancer]

I have a BA 40 degree bad and a BA dual core pad which sleeps great.......until the temp falls below about 45 degrees. Even with a long sleeve shirt and log john bottoms, a fleece cap and gloves I still get cold. The problem is not the pad but the backless bag. When will BA wise up and insulate the bag like everyone else does? I love the pad but will never buy another backless BA bag again.

The lack of any insulation or fill on the underside of the bag is the reason I did the test to begin with. I was not confident, and I am still not confident, that this design will work for me. I mean, the only thing between your skin and the pad is whatever you are wearing and a thin layer of sleeping bag fabric. Hopefully I can remedy this by adding a CCF pad.

[tridavis]

You could always use a fleece liner.

[Janeway]

Originally Posted by DeerPath
Put an Emergency Blanket between you and the ground. It will reflect your body heat back to you. Weights about 1.7 oz. and is cheap, about $3.00.



noisy and un productive. - tried it. - it sucked.

My brother and nephew have a REI Space All Weather Blanket (12 oz, 7'X5' - This reinforced fabric blanket reflects 80% of radiated body heat back to you. Use for warmth under a tent, bivy sack or for emergencies). It's multi purpose (I like spreading it on the ground for a "kitchen table"), seems quite sturdy and has grommets at each corner, so I guess it could also be a tarp. On a recent Knobstone Trail (IN) outing it got quite cold and they related that they spread it under their pads, or maybe between pad and sleeping bags, and said they could just feel the warmth radiating upwards. It's multi-use and not crinkly. At 12 ounces and 7'x5', it seems too big and heavy for my use, but I've considered cutting it down so it would still be useful as a kitchen table, and a coldweather tent floor.

[Creek Dancer]

My brother and nephew have a REI Space All Weather Blanket (12 oz, 7'X5' - This reinforced fabric blanket reflects 80% of radiated body heat back to you. Use for warmth under a tent, bivy sack or for emergencies). It's multi purpose (I like spreading it on the ground for a "kitchen table"), seems quite sturdy and has grommets at each corner, so I guess it could also be a tarp. On a recent Knobstone Trail (IN) outing it got quite cold and they related that they spread it under their pads, or maybe between pad and sleeping bags, and said they could just feel the warmth radiating upwards. It's multi-use and not crinkly. At 12 ounces and 7'x5', it seems too big and heavy for my use, but I've considered cutting it down so it would still be useful as a kitchen table, and a coldweather tent floor.

I looked at these on the REI website. Too big and heavy for my purposes as well, but I can see how this would be a great for some uses as you mentioned. In fact, I think I will get my kids one to keep in their cars during the winter. If the car breaks down, I think this would keep them warm.

[leaftye]

BA makes a sleeping pad that is R-15? I don't think so. BPL just tested about 25 mats, and only two of them were above R10. And the R value is effected by the thickness to which the pad is inflated. So I'd get a warmer pad (Exped Downmat 9?) and add a Gossamer Gear thinlight pad if you get cold. Look at some of Tipi Walter's posts, he knows pads. He only goes out in major winter storms I think.

I'm glad you caught this. I was thinking: R-15? Big Agnes?? Why did I just buy a down air mattress?!?

No, Big Agnes does not make a pad that warm. Something that warm would be comfortable at temperatures far below 0°F.

Most likely the pad being used is the Big Agnus Insulated Air Core, which is comfort rated to 15°F, yet has an R-value of only 4.1. I'd personally want an R-value of at least 5 when the temperature is around freezing, and probably 8 when the temperature drops to 0° although I will admit that I do not have any experience at 0°F.