No Pee in Privy

[shelterbuilder]

This use to be one of my pet peeves (refilling the duff buckets), but that was short-lived since I've now concluded that privies are just too nasty for me to use any longer.

And I agree that pee should generally be good for a pile; you can have decompositition without oxygen (albeit not a perferred method), but you always need moisture.

Too much urine in a privy upsets not only the moisture content, but, more inportantly it upsets the carbon/nitrogen ratios within the pile. In a "moldering privy", this isn't extremely important in the long run, since the excess will drain out, although in both a Clivus system and a "true composting privy", this can be a disaster. The excess liquid collects within the container and, by displacing the oxygen, it shuts down the aerobic decomposition and sets up the pile for anaerobic decomposition, which is characterized by that all-too-familiar ammonia odor. The addition of duff not only covers the waste to help keep down odors, but also introduces soil microbes that aid in waste breakdown.

If, however, you're working with WORMS, too much urine may serve only to drive them out of the pile, although there is not enough clinical study regarding just how much urine they can tolerate.

Based on my own (not-too-scientific) observations, this country has raised a generation of people who really don't know how to pee in the woods! If there's no toilet nearby, many of these folks will try to "just hold it" until they return to civilization.

[Pedaling Fool]

Too much of any one thing upsets the C:N ratio; one could argue that too much s**t upsets the ratio. However, too much pee is something I thought of when I posted, but didn't say anything, because I just don't have the practical experience working around privies to know.

However, I do know this, most guys don't piss in privies (except, of course when they do their "business"), but girls usually do go to the privy just to pee. So this has always been a thought in my mind, since I've seen the privies with the "No Peeing" signs. Do they really expect guys to not pee when doing their "business"? -- Surely that little amount of pee is not too much.

So that leaves females, are they saying they don't want females to pee in the privies? Surely (but again I'm totally speculating here) since there are so few females on the trail compared to men, does their pee really have that much of an adverse effect? Especially when you think that these relatively small number of women are not using these privies while hiking, so the bulk of their bladder releases are still in the woods. So for those reasons it's hard for me to see that there's too much pee in the privies...there's too much of something, but not pee


BUT AGAIN, I'm speculating and could be entirely wrong. Questions, Questions, Questions....I was always one of those annoying students that the teachers loved to hate

[Creek Dancer]

Why do men think women prefer to pee in the privies? I can't stand to use them. They are filthy. I would much rather pee in the woods.

[shelterbuilder]

C'mon, John - let's not turn this thread gender-phobic!

Decades ago, when we were doing the research for the Eagle's Nest privy (a "true composting privy"), we developed a formula-of-sorts to help determine the projected use levels (and thereby giving us some idea of how big to size the components). We used entries from the REGISTER BOOKS at the other shelters on our section to try to understand who "might" and who "might not" visit the privy when they visited the shelter. One of the assumptions that we made was that most day hikers probably would NOT use the privy, but that most overnight hikers probably would.

However, over the years, we've begun to believe that our assumptions were partly in error. As I said yesterday, we've raised a generation (actually, we're raising the 2nd one now, too) of people who, generally speaking, do not know how to pee in the woods! This sounds ridiculous to those of us who are out there all the time, but time and time again, I've run into Boy Scout troops whose members either are afraid to go or who just "don't know how to go" if there isn't a toilet where they can either stand (to pee) or sit (to poop). And it's NOT just the younger boys, either - some of the older ones that I've met have been ABSOLUTELY DESPERATE to find a sit-down toilet - in ANY kind of condition - so that they can finally relieve themselves.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the "No Pee in the Privy" signs are not just directed at the girls - they are just as much for the guys as for the girls. (Perhaps what we REALLY need are signs telling people HOW to pee in the woods)

[Mountain Mike]

I thought later generation composters were addressing pee problem. Or should there be a new thread with types of privys. I moldering new term for outhouse? Would love to see composters down in GA where soil/rock prevents outhouses. But it does take expense & constant effort. I have helped with recyling process & it's not for one with light stomach. Each batch has to be brought up to temp to kill harmfull bacteria. Removal from privy, mixing & monitoring. Nasty & someone has to be dedicated to job to do it. But then it can be spread to revegitation areas.

[Mountain Mike]

PS any hikers taking a dump at Ethan POnd Shelter in NH. I helped with air drops there. Just on a week long trip hanging out when it happened. They made 3 of the four drop in planned location & we had to clear area (fire pit area in frot of shelter) before next one got back. One load was heavy & had to be dropped at stream at edge of pond & hauled in a bit further. So when you s### there think of me. lol

[jacob_springsteen]

I've been composting for years and already knew pee was a good thing for the privies.

It's got electrolytes.

[Pedaling Fool]

If that's really the case with boys going in a privy to piss instead of behind a tree, then I gotta extract myself from this conversation. It's just totally foreign to me....gonna take some time to process

[Sly]

I suppose I could empty my bladder prior to entering the privy for the big "download", but it would take a really conscious effort, and I'm often not that conscious.
.

No way! That could trigger regrettable results! Put a clamp on it, then go after.

[Cosmo]

The issue is 'compaction'. That's what the duff is for, allowing space for oxygen to support active microorganisms that quickly break down the waste. Some moisture is essential for this process, but too much can make things clump together, slowing things down. Frankly, for most guys tapping a kidney is pretty easy pretty much anywhere ("it's so handy at picnics", I've heard said) and the small proportion that is released while "dropping a duce" (I love that term!) is not an issue. As females still make up less than half the hikers on the trail, I don't think their liquid contribution creates a noticeable problem. At high use areas, such as Upper Goose Pond Cabin, we've provided two seats in each outhouse--the liquid goes into a bag of coal or charcoal (to reduce odor) buried in back of the privy, and then into the ground.

If anyone has the opportunity to service one of these privies, I think you will be amazed that how un-offensive the composted product is. There is no bad smell, no recognizable shapes, and the volume is reduced by well over 50%. The biggest problem for maintainers is the non-degradable stuff that gets put in there as well. Everything from baby wipes to tampon applicators, to clothing (a surprising number of waistbands survive intact while the rest of the (cotton) garment is eaten). These all have to be removed manually from the compost and packed out. As they say, nothing should go into the privy that hasn't gone in your mouth first, except TP.

Invariably, whenever a group of maintainers meet, the talk always comes around to waste management.


Cosmo

[ocourse]

Just a small, simple note will be better. Conscientious folks will comply because it's their nature, others won't comply because it isn't their nature.

"Sign Sign everywhere a sign
Blocking out the scenery breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?"

[shelb]

As they say, nothing should go into the privy that hasn't gone in your mouth first, except TP.

Cosmo

So, there is no problem with leaving TP in a privy? Or, should it be packed out?

[Lone Wolf]

So, there is no problem with leaving TP in a privy? Or, should it be packed out?

live it in the privy of course

[Awol1970]

I can't get past the fact that some people don't know how to pee in the woods.

[Lone Wolf]

I can't get past the fact that some people don't know how to pee in the woods.

do you live in a house? do you pee outside every day and nite?

[Sarcasm the elf]

do you live in a house? do you pee outside every day and nite?

I tried that for a while but my parents put a stop to it when I was six or seven.

[Mountain Mike]

do you live in a house? do you pee outside every day and nite?

Pretty much. Why live where you can't piss out your back door?

[rocketsocks]

Hey, if you pee on a cow fence......will it getcha?

[JAK]

It depends on the type of composter, climate, soil type, and what you may be using for organic material if any, and how much 'volume of traffic' you are dealing with. Some outhouses are like gremlins. You don't want to add water.

[FlyPaper]

I really wish folks would just actually re-fill the duff buckets (and use them) the addition of leaves to a composting privy is so essential and SOOOO EASY

Most of them I come across are full of trash. Really hate how inconsiderate some people can be.